SGOTM 11 - Plastic Ducks

A couple of things.

Your army can be assembled, ready to attack T 194 on all fronts. We are in position T191 for both Aksoum and Gondar, but a bit behind on maces and lacking one cat at that time.

In order to do that, we need to whip a 8th Galley in Calcutta to transport the final maceman quicker from Vijay to Calcutta OR we 2-pop whip the final maceman in Vijay T191. If not we're not ready untill T 195.

Transporting Spies seems safest by ship. If we're not attacking untill T194, we have enough galleys to get it done. Are we definately sending all 4 at the same time, or are we sending 2+2 (To get more discount on the first 2)?

What do we do if a spy gets caught? 2? 3? before war.

EDIT: Or we could whip final mace in Calcutta (no exp) if that is acceptable, for a T193 war)
 
The units needed for Lal are uncertain, we don't need to take Lal in 1 hit, only Aksum needs to be down in 1 turn since every more LB in that hill city is much more troublesome.

We definitely don't need 8th galley, if more units needed, then maceman from Cal is fine. Units for Lal do not need to march in the same turn war begins, can be 1 or 2 turns later since we need to spend a couple turns to remove defense.

The reason I suggest 4 spies is to consider all possible loss including getting caught and/or failing on mission. Spies with less discount can't revolt (edit: and too much is not necessary), this is reason why they need to reach in the same time.

You can leave issues after T190 to next set.;)
 
Allright

Final question then is : After whipping 7th Galley from Calcutta T188, what does Calcutta build? (If we want a mace from Calcutta, now is a good time!)

Major change: Get galley from Aksoum AND Varan (which delays HM and don't put as much hammers into Monastery). Problem is, in order to get Galleys in position for T192 war, Varan can't wait for OR to whip Galley = no overflow into HM. If we delay one turn HM gets the overflow and everything is ok. Since 3rd stack is still assembling T192, it could be a wise update of plan to whip galley from Varan T185 to get overflow into HM T186.

(And since there's considerable overlap between this turnset and next, I think I have to worry a little bit about that overlap, honestly)

Plan:

Spoiler :
Keep lookout near cow+horse and cow+wheat+iron

T177:
Bulb PP, Research to 30% (Allows construction in 1 turn on T178)

Workers:
Chop Jungle near Hyder
1 worker from cottage near Delhi to SW Bombay, Farm+cancel
2 workers to S Delhi -> Road+cancel.

Units:
(Where do armies go?)
HM to Lahore
Trireme heads towards Aksoum to clear the barbs and check garrison.
Galley picks up Woody and transport to Calcutta.

Cities:
Madras Whip Forge
Lahore whip HM
Varan Whip university
Bangalore whip Lib (Hyder doesn't. Overflow is only 7, so working mine 1 turn > OR overflow?)

T178:
Research to 100% on construction

Workers:
2 workers go 2E Delhi+Road+cancel
Worker roads 2W1S Bombay

Units:
Galley picks up 2HM and heads for Varan to unload

Cities:
Madras->Lib
Varan->Spy
Hyder->Whip Lib (work 2f3c over 1f3h)
Agra-> Start Galley + Gold->food

T179:
Construction in->Music @ 0% waiting for OU

Units:
Tao spread in Delhi (hopefully)

Workers:
1 worker 1S3E Delhi + chop
1 worker 1n3e Delhi + chop

Cities:
Vijay->Mace
Delhi->Taoist Monastery (or continue on MoM if no religion spread).
Madras->Whip lib
Pati->Whip Mace (Keep engineer)
calcutta->whip galley
Agra->Whip galley



Switch to Theocracy


T180:

Workers:
2 workers road plantation

Units:
Galley towards calcutta
HM to Pati and Madras

Cities:
Pata->Mace
Madras->uni
Bombay whip mace
Vijay whip mace
Calcutta->Spy
Varan->whip spy
Hyder->New pop on 2f3c


T181:

Workers:
Worker roads cow
1 worker roads 2S1W Calcutta+cancel

Cities:
Bombay->Cat
Vijay->Mace
Varan->Spy
Pati->Catapult
Calcutta->Spy


T182:

Workers:
2 workers cancel chops E of Delhi
1 worker to 4N1E Delhi
1 worker to 3N Delhi

Units:
Hindu spread in Pati

Cities:
Pati -> Whip cat (keep engineer)
Varan -> Whip spy
calcutta -> Whip spy
Bombay -> Whip cat


T183:

Units:
Hindu Spread Madras

Workers:
1 worker mine near hyder
1 workers to 2E Delhi+road
1 worker roads E Delhi
1 worker chops 3N Delhi
1 worker chops 3N2E Delhi

Cities:
Calcutta->Galley
--->Varan->Galley
Bombay->Cata
Vijay-> Mace
Agra -> Moai
Delhi->MoM

T184:

Workers:
1 worker to E Bombay farm+cancel
1 worker Roads E Delhi

Cities:
Vijay -> Whip mace
Pati -> Mace
Bombay -> Whip catapult
Varan -> Whip Galley (We're now only working 3 cottages, so Vijay borrows 1)

T185:

Worker:
1 Worker roads E Madras
1 worker roads S Delhi
1 worker Mines Iron+cancel
1 Worker Roads 2S1W Calcutta


Cities:
Bombay -> Catapult
Vijay -> Mace
Calcutta -> Whip galley
Pati-> WHip mace (assign engineer)
Banga borrows last clam for 1 turn.
Varan -> Hindu Monastery

T186:


Workers:
1 worker to 1N3E Delhi
1 worker to 1S3E Delhi

Cities:
Bombay -> Whip cat
Calcutta -> Galley
Pati->Hindu Temple
Delhi -> Whip Taoist Monastery (assign engineer)


Revolt OR (revolting AFTER whipping in Delhi gives more hammers it seems, or something strange was

happening in my test :))

Hyder -> Whip Uni, take back clam
Banga -> Whip Uni
Madras -> Whip Uni
Varan -> HM

T187:
Units:
Load 4 maces + 2 cats on galleys to go for 4E Gondar (Arrives T191)

Workers:
Worker Roads last incense
Workers chop forests

Cities:
Bombay -> cat
Vijay -> whip Mace
Banga -> Forge
Hyder -> Forge
Madras -> HM
Delhi -> OU
Agra -> Whip CH


T188:
Research 100% at Nationalism

Units:
HM Boards galley, joined by Mace in Calcutta. Will end up in Hyder while we still have a galley here.

Workers:
1 Worker to 3E Delhi
1 worker to Iron+mine
1 worker to 3E2N Delhi+chop
1 worker moves towards E Madras (losing 1 turn moving here..)

Cities:
Calcutta -> Whip Galley
Bombay -> Whip Cat
Vijay -> Mace
Delhi-> OU in -> MoM
Varan -> HM
Agra->Moai

T189:
Load Aksoum force onto 4 galleys (Arrives T191)

Workers:
Worker chops 3E Delhi
Worker chops jungle near Hyder
Worker roads 1E Madras

Cities:
Delhi : Whip Hindu Monastery (Keep engineer)
Vijay -> Whip Mace
Bombay -> Cat
Calcutta -> Mace
Madras -> Whip HM

T190:

Stop, upload, report

 
Did you build monastery in Var? I don't think the beaker gains are worth the hammers invested. I prefer to skip monastery and favor missionaries from Var.
Edit: Galley does not get bonus from OR.

@your plan -- it seems to me you overlooked many changes that you agreed.
T177 -- should whip lib in Hyde
T186 -- before Delhi grows enough pop to work on all green tiles, I prefer not to hire engineer.
T189 -- we can finish Hindu monastery once Tao successfully spread to Delhi.
It's easy to let all cats to be level 3 if you let vij build 1 or 2 from beginning.
Galleys to 4E of Gonda can go alone to the tile we want and let land units go through Zara's land to land which will save cash for away units payment.
Could you upload the final test save?
 
Bugg123 said:
Final question then is : After whipping 7th Galley from Calcutta T188, what does Calcutta build? (If we want a mace from Calcutta, now is a good time!)
Click to expand...

A mace would be fine for me.
Izzie will have a few turns to build units after she DoWs, so we can expect greater resistance from her than from Zara. An additionnal mace can't hurt.
That's where the galley is the alternative, right ? I think we will disband enough galleys post war, already... And moving 14 units at a time is more than enough, considering the distance to Aksum / Izzie.

+
I agree with Duckweed.
(No need to take Lalibella on the 1st turn)
(Missionary in Varanasi takes priority. There are good odds we fail at spreading religion a few times...)
 
Monastery in Varan:
It is hard building missionaries there when in Theocracy. It's also not a good idea to delay the last spy, I think. I aggree HMs are a priority, but they can't be built between last spy and revolt to OR, so... a Galley should be ok.

I will update plan and attach final save tomorrow morning. It's a bit hard for me with kossin's testgame since I can't prevent the dow, and lose openborders with Zara. Did I mention I suck at WB?

If anyone has a testgame T177 with my plan played and without the DOW it'd be much appreciated :) If not I'll post the testgame as I have it with the omissions I did that duckweed pointed out corrected (no time for that right now).
 
Delete all Zara's units, then he won't DOW. Or simply ask 1g if it works.
I did not let you delay spy, after all spies, build a galley and then wealth if you can't build missionary.
 
Just delete some of Zara's units - he won't DoW with no units.
It takes away the simulation of war though.

Will look over plan at home tonight.
 
Bugg123 said:
If anyone has a testgame T177 with my plan played and without the DOW it'd be much appreciated :) If not I'll post the testgame as I have it with the omissions I did that duckweed pointed out corrected (no time for that right now).
Click to expand...

WB him to DoW somebody else, then WB peace back later.
 
Thanks! I feel kinda stupid no knowing that, but well.. I've never really used WB much to toy around with the AI :)

Will fix it tomorrow and post sometime during the morning.

@kossin:
If you look at the plan, also look at the stuff duckweed mentioned, as it really should've been in there, I think.

@duckweed:
T186 -- before Delhi grows enough pop to work on all green tiles, I prefer not to hire engineer.
Click to expand...

I guess.. I just thought we'd maximize GE points for the GP coming soon. We'll have our best % shot this time, no?
 
It might look like a wall of text but actually it's all minor details. You've got my vote to go ahead with the fixes and Duckweed's comments.

@Plan
Every turn: Check for AI completion of Literature/Drama. Research 100% Music as needed.

Use the overflow from Mace whips in Vijay to make Catapults under Theocracy since whipping them is inefficient.

T177
Agree with Duckweed to whip Library right away.

T178
Swap MoM in Delhi. Should the Taoist Missionary fail spread we'd be left with no nothing to whip into OU :)
Check for Construction tradability before researching it. Use minimum slider to finish it of course.
Vijay can use the 3F tile from Bangalore this turn to gain 1 turn of growth. Doesn't delay the maceman. Swap back the next turn to Bangalore so it can grow faster to size 6.

T179<->T180
Hyde 4th pop on coast instead of mine (grows 1 turn sooner because of 1 turn faster whip)

T181
I prefer the road directly 2S of Calcutta, easier for moving east which the troops need to do.

T183<->184
Patali builds Mace on T183 not T184 (from here one the micro in Patali is a bit off but you get the picture obviously from the plan) Keep it > = size 4 to work the 3 best tiles+engineer
Moai in Agra? Do we expect it to be completed in the next ~60 turns? I'd prefer to wait for bigger size city to work both golds+OR bonus.

T185
Road 2S of Calcutta rather than 2S1W again.

T186
2 FW by Delhi, have them do something useful 1 tile from their forest, like a turn of mine on tundra hill [or road to eventually hook up the silver] and turn of farm on riverside plains (we need food more than commerce in Delhi to run specs).

T187
I came up a few hammers short to 1-turn OU in Delhi [because of no Taoist spread] but swapping a farm->Engineer did the trick. Just mentioning this in case it should happen in the game.

T188
Have the FW moving to Madras put 1 turn of road 1W of Delhi+cancel while in route.
I think I'd prefer a Forge in Agra than Moai here again.
It's +3 happy and will help quite a bit for production via food/whips.
Finish Music if not done already.
 
@kossin:
Good points.

a few things:
Your T183/T184 comment isn't really a change. Pata starts mace from overflow, and 2-pop whips cat into a mace that completes T184. Then starts another mace. I guess you mean I should overflow into Cat, then start mace to 2-pop whip that later. Is there much difference?

EDIT: Kinda messed up by not adding forge in Vijay first playthrough. See save below and final plan. Getting 6 5exp Cats means we have 1 fewer mace at this point. Since Bombay is building it, it takes a while(Whip T192, so doesn't matter). Means we're a few maces short for the 3rd stack when we may want it. We'll have 16 maces by T194 (all 6 near calcutta won't be ready to attack untill T197-198, but we should have enough to start the bombardment a few turns sooner than that)
 
@duckweed:
Moving troops through Ethiopia for 4E gondar is good. Moving most troops for Aksoum may be better by ships (at least partially) to get there on time.

Didn't get comments on proposed resource deals, so just posting them again:

Proposed resource deals:

Justinian : Cancel sugar deal, start sugar for 3
Meh: Cancel gold deal, start gold for 2
Sal: Cancel Marble for horse, Start Marble+1 for horse ?
Zara: Cancel gold deal, start gold for 2
Click to expand...

Now really hopefully final plan:

Spoiler :
Keep lookout near cow+horse and cow+wheat+iron

T177:
Bulb PP, Research to 30% (Allows construction in 1 turn on T178)

Workers:
Chop Jungle near Hyder
1 worker from cottage near Delhi to SW Bombay, Farm+cancel
2 workers to S Delhi -> Road+cancel.

Units:
HM to Lahore
Trireme heads towards Aksoum to clear the barbs and check garrison.
Galley picks up Woody and transport to Calcutta.

Cities:
Madras Whip Forge
Lahore whip HM
Varan Whip university
Bangalore whip Lib
Hyder->Whip Lib (work 2f3c over 1f3h)
Pati -> Whip Mace


T178:
Check for Construction tradeability -> Research to 90%/100% on construction (enough to finish 1 turn)

Workers:
2 workers go 2E Delhi+Road+cancel
Worker roads 2W1S Bombay

Units:
Galley picks up 2HM and heads for Varan to unload

Cities:
Madras->Lib
Varan->Spy
Banga->uni
Hyder-> 2F3C over 1F3H -> uni
Delhi->MoM
Vijay->Take 3F from Banga
Agra-> Start Galley + Gold->food

T179:
Construction in->Music @ 0% waiting for OU

Units:
Tao spread in Delhi (hopefully)

Workers:
1 worker 1S3E Delhi + chop
1 worker 1n3e Delhi + chop

Cities:
Vijay->Mace
Delhi->Complete Hindu Monastery(or continue on MoM if no religion spread).
Madras->Whip lib
Pati->Whip Mace (Keep engineer)
calcutta->whip galley
Agra->whip Galley
Banga -> Take back 3F from Vijay
Bombay -> Whip mace
Hyder->New pop on 2f3c

Switch to Theocracy

T180:

Workers:
2 workers road plantation

Units:
Galley towards calcutta
Send 2 HM to Madras (really want Hindu spread here). One doubles back to Pati if 1st successful

Cities:
Pata->Mace
Madras->uni
Bombay->cat
Vijay whip mace
Calcutta->Spy
Varan->whip spy
Agra->CH
Delhi->Taoist Monastery (or continue MoM)

T181:

Workers:
Worker roads cow
1 worker roads 2S Calcutta+cancel

Cities:
Bombay->whip cat
Vijay->Cat
Varan->Spy
Pati->Catapult
Calcutta->Spy


T182:

Workers:
2 workers cancel chops E of Delhi
1 worker to 4N1E Delhi
1 worker to 3N Delhi

Cities:
Pati -> Whip cat (keep engineer)
Varan -> Whip spy
calcutta -> Whip spy
Bombay -> cat
Vijay -> Mace


T183:

Units:
Hindu Spread Madras

Workers:
1 worker mine near hyder
1 workers to 2E Delhi+road
1 worker roads E Delhi
1 worker chops 3N Delhi
1 worker chops 3N2E Delhi

Cities:
Calcutta->Galley
--->Varan->Galley
Bombay->whip Cata
Vijay-> Whip Mace
Delhi-> MoM (if on Taoist Monastery)

T184:

Workers:
1 worker to E Bombay farm+cancel
1 worker Roads E Delhi

Cities:
Vijay -> cat
Pati -> Mace
Bombay -> cat
Varan -> Whip Galley

T185:

Worker:
1 worker roads S Delhi
1 worker Mines Iron+cancel
1 Worker Roads 2S Calcutta


Cities:
Bombay -> whip cat
Pati-> WHip mace (assign engineer)
Banga borrows last clam for 1 turn.
Varan -> Wealth
Calcutta -> whip Galley

T186:


Workers:
1 worker farm+cancel 2E Delhi
1 worker mine+cancel 2E1S Delhi

Cities:
Bombay -> Mace
Vijay -> Mace
Pati->Hindu Temple
Delhi -> Whip Taoist Monastery (assign engineer)
Calcutta->Galley

Revolt OR (revolting AFTER whipping in Delhi gives more hammers it seems, or something strange was

happening in my test :))

Hyder -> Whip Uni, take back clam
Banga -> Whip Uni
Madras -> Whip Uni
Varan -> HM

T187:

Workers:
Worker Roads SE Calcutta
Worker s chop forests

Cities:
Vijay -> whip mace
Banga -> Forge
Hyder -> Forge
Madras -> HM (What to build if Hindu doesn't spread?)
Delhi -> OU
Agra -> Whip CH
Varan -> Whip HM


T188:
Research Music (whatever % necessary)

Units:
HM Boards galley, joined by Mace in Calcutta. Will end up in Hyder while we still have a galley here.

Workers:
1 Worker to 3E Delhi
1 worker to Iron+mine
1 worker to 3E2N Delhi+chop
1 worker moves 1W Delhi, road+cancel

Cities:
Calcutta -> Whip Galley
Delhi-> OU in -> MoM
Varan -> Wealth
Agra-> Forge
Madras->Whip HM

T189:
Research Nationalism @100%

Load Aksoum force onto 4 galleys

Units:
4 spies arrive in Aksoum by boat (3 galleys heading for 4E gondar)

Workers:
Worker chops 3E Delhi
Worker chops jungle near Hyder
Worker roads 1E Madras

Cities:
Calcutta -> Mace
Madras -> HM

T190:

Stop, upload, report

 

Attachments

  • SGOTM11 TEST!!! AD-0250-2.CivBeyondSwordSave
    215.3 KB · Views: 52
Resource deals:
Yes of course those are good. Don't worry if they don't have gold available right away after cancelling, just check the next few turns while they adjust their cities/sliders.

T188
No need for partial research, the overflow will carry on in Nationalism.

Looks good otherwise :)
Good luck
 
Plan and save look good. One thing needs to be taken care is that you should harbor the galleys to 4E of Lal inside our culture border before all of them are ready to sail. Another minor thing is that we can just put 1 turn to Music and then switch to Nat.

If you don't specially mention issues in doubt, no comment means agreement. This also applies to other people comments if no one against. The other case I will keep silence is that I can't comment such as the worker move and tile management since I don't run the test.

Good luck.:)
 
Plan and save look good. One thing needs to be taken care is that you should harbor the galleys to 4E of Lal inside our culture border before all of them are ready to sail. Another minor thing is that we can just put 1 turn to Music and then switch to Nat.
Click to expand...

Ok, for galleys (unless Aksoum is really lightly defended :)). There's no rush getting them there for T191-192 since it doesn't look like we'll be declaring untill T193-194.

@Music, you mean research untill 1turn left, then Nat, I can do that if there's no real danger of losing it.

Will try to get this done tonight. It's a lot to take care of, so I need to make sure I have enought time to avoid rushing it.
 
Bugg123 said:
Will try to get this done tonight. It's a lot to take care of, so I need to make sure I have enought time to avoid rushing it.
Click to expand...

I agree, it is quite difficult to keep the concentration going on the whole set.

My last sets I printed out the plan and crossed out things to do with a pencil as I did them. Best way not to forget anything :lol:
 
Playing now. A few irregularities (hammers in testgame vs real game), but looks ok, I think.

I trust this is not something we want?
Civ4ScreenShot0020.JPG

Haven't gone ahead with anything yet...
 
Turnset played and uploaded.

Nothing real exciting, I think. Mostly according to plan.

Will post report later.

Log:

Spoiler :

Turn 177, 55 AD: You have discovered Printing Press!
Turn 177, 55 AD: You have trained Hindu Missionary in Lahore. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.

Turn 178, 70 AD: Delhi celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 178, 70 AD: Merit Ptah (Great Scientist) has been born in Medina (Saladin)!

Turn 179, 85 AD: Gandhi adopts Theocracy!
Turn 179, 85 AD: You have discovered Construction!
Turn 179, 85 AD: Delhi celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 179, 85 AD: You have trained a Galley in Agra. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 179, 85 AD: The borders of Hyderabad have expanded!

Turn 180, 100 AD: Saladin adopts Vassalage!

Turn 182, 130 AD: Hinduism has spread in Madras.
Turn 182, 130 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Pataliputra. Work has now begun on a Maceman.
Turn 182, 130 AD: Isabella has completed The Statue of Zeus!

Turn 184, 160 AD: Hinduism has spread in Pataliputra.

Turn 185, 175 AD: Taoism has spread in Edirne.

Turn 186, 190 AD: Gandhi adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 188, 220 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Madras!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Pataliputra has grown to size 4.
Turn 188, 220 AD: Calcutta has grown to size 4.
Turn 188, 220 AD: Madras has grown to size 5.
Turn 188, 220 AD: Madras can hurry Hindu Missionary for 1? with 6? overflow and +1? for 64 turns.
Turn 188, 220 AD: Bangalore has grown to size 4.
Turn 188, 220 AD: Hyderabad has grown to size 4.
Turn 188, 220 AD: Justinian I has 110 gold available for trade.
Turn 188, 220 AD: Lahore will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 188, 220 AD: Tokugawa has made peace with Justinian I!

Turn 189, 235 AD: A Indian Spy 2 (Calcutta) has been stumbled upon while operating near the Ethiopian city of Aksum!
Turn 189, 235 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Madras!
Turn 189, 235 AD: Delhi can hurry Mausoleum of Maussollos for 5? with 21? overflow and +1? for 60 turns.
Turn 189, 235 AD: Lahore has grown to size 5.
Turn 189, 235 AD: Justinian I has 160 gold available for trade.
Turn 189, 235 AD: Bombay will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 189, 235 AD: Pataliputra will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 189, 235 AD: Varanasi will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 189, 235 AD: Agra will grow to size 4 on the next turn.

Turn 190, 250 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Madras!
Turn 190, 250 AD: Bombay has grown to size 3.
Turn 190, 250 AD: Vijayanagara can hurry Maceman for 1? with 29? overflow and +1? for 78 turns.
Turn 190, 250 AD: Pataliputra has grown to size 5.
Turn 190, 250 AD: Varanasi has grown to size 5.
Turn 190, 250 AD: Agra has grown to size 4.
Turn 190, 250 AD: Calcutta can hurry Maceman for 1? with 9? overflow and +1? for 99 turns.
Turn 190, 250 AD: Madras can hurry Hindu Missionary for 1? with 4? overflow and +1? for 77 turns.
Turn 190, 250 AD: You are the worst enemy of Tokugawa.
 
Well done, Bugg123.

Seems we did not have good luck, the Tao missionary failed and 1 spy already got caught.:lol: Hopefully the remain 3 survive until the war begins.
 
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