Turn Discussion Thread

A new turn is up:

As discussed, Pallas moved 1NW and found more hills and pigs:



Vesta moved 1SW to the channel's edge to await Enterprise, who started back toward Sirius:



One thing: As mentioned previously, can we please NOT queue unit movement (or builds) unless we think there is some danger of missing a turn? In this particular case, I want Pallas to board Enterprise next turn, and then disembark on the turn after, BEFORE Enterprise moves. Thanks.

Also, Voyager has been turned around, and we've met Team Quatronia:



I would be willing to act as the Quatronian diplomat, unless someone else would like to do so. I will put together a brief message of greetings.

I put together a brief greeting to Quatronia and started a diplomacy thread here.

Edit: I also made some educated guesses about the land around the copper city (Arcturus) and played them in World Builder. I think this would be a monster production city:



Pigs, clams, copper. At least 7 hills (5 riverside). Just fantastic once we get dikes.

It'll be a monster production city, but IIRC the best production cities take advantage of State Property, and workshops and watermills.

azzaman333 said:

It'll be a monster production city, but IIRC the best production cities take advantage of State Property, and workshops and watermills.

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True. There are good sites on Andromeda for just such a city. The potential horse city has lots of grassland and a river.

azzaman333 said:

It'll be a monster production city, but IIRC the best production cities take advantage of State Property, and workshops and watermills.

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Only in the later eras, for most of the game hills are the best. So it's a good one to settle early really.

Just bringing across this issue from the micro plan thread, as it's probably not likely to get much attention there, and it's come to one of those opinon/judgement things so there's not much progress to be made just Trystero and I arguing about it.

We need to decide what to prioritise after the settler. Trystero is of the opinion we should build and chop another settler and a couple of exploration warriors. I'm of the view we need to build workers, as we are desperately short as it is.

My main point is that on T67 we'll get the Great Scientist, and will want to switch to working two other tiles (I'd imagine cottages), and as it stands we're not going to have two improved tiles (or even one) to work. We're also going to get Monarchy sometime soon, and pigs and clams will put our health cap up enough to get two more population in Sirius without health problems.

I'll let Trystero make his own point or else I probably won't do it justice and thereby skew things.

Were about to have three cities and only one worker we need to get some more out. I'd even suggest each of our cities next buil be a worker just to catch up.

It does look like we're going to need tile improvements around each of our cities, so one worker certainly won't do the job. I think the first priority should be getting the copper hooked up and getting a strong unit to Arcturus, maybe an axeman, we've already seen human barbarians, so we'll want something more than a warrior soon. After that we'll certainly need some workers, and I would prioritize them over additional settlers.

Edit: That spot for Arcturus is exactly what I was thinking. It's good on it's own merits, but it also has the advantage of allowing us to settle the 2 clam 1 pig city to the east with only a single tile of overlap.

grant2004 said:

It does look like we're going to need tile improvements around each of our cities, so one worker certainly won't do the job. I think the first priority should be getting the copper hooked up and getting a strong unit to Arcturus, maybe an axeman, we've already seen human barbarians, so we'll want something more than a warrior soon. After that we'll certainly need some workers, and I would prioritize them over additional settlers.

Edit: That spot for Arcturus is exactly what I was thinking. It's good on it's own merits, but it also has the advantage of allowing us to settle the 2 clam 1 pig city to the east with only a single tile of overlap.

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Problem is we need to hook up the Copper first, we'll probably have to build the Axeman there. I think the next builds for both Sirian and Canopus can and should be a worker. Canopus will finish it's WB in 2 turns and can build a Worker in at least 6 turns (it's going to be pop four next turn and at it's Happy cap).

Can we pump workers from city 2 and settlers from the capital?

I agree we need more workers soon. There's no point in having more population when they're working unimproved tiles anyway.

Irgy said:

I'll let Trystero make his own point or else I probably won't do it justice and thereby skew things.

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A couple of points:

1. I think we need more workers. The problem I see is that happiness is what's limiting our growth right now, not undeveloped tiles. That could change if we get Monarchy or a religion.

2. I also think we need at least one more city at the horse site soon. My micro plan was an initial attempt at that, but I think it could be improved (a lot) by some of Irgy's suggestions in the micro thread. In particular, I think I built too much support for the potential 4th city (warriors and a WB). Irgy has pointed out that this region is shared with AMAZON by treaty, so we don't need to worry about losing the horse city. I think we should build one more settler soon and send him to the horse site. Settling this city sooner lets it start to grow and build culture. Because the horse city is in an uncontested region, we could let it develop more slowly (build it's own WB and worker, for instance). Having said all this, I think the settler could wait until after a worker for the home island.

I will try a new micro plan now that I'm done fixing the test game.

AlphaShard said:

Problem is we need to hook up the Copper first, we'll probably have to build the Axeman there. I think the next builds for both Sirian and Canopus can and should be a worker. Canopus will finish it's WB in 2 turns and can build a Worker in at least 6 turns (it's going to be pop four next turn and at it's Happy cap).

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Irgy has pointed out (yes, the micro thread is mostly he and I talking to each other. ) that if we build a warrior in Canopus it could grow to pop 5. I think that's better than building another worker right away. Canopus working both fish, both (cottaged) FPs, and the gold would be a great worker/settler pump.

Edit: We just learned from AMAZON that Maverick, who are the team on the south side of Bode, don't have Sailing yet (!). The prospects of grabbing the copper city just improved greatly!

I think that the fact that we have a agreement about the Horseland and not about Copper-pig land says that we should be settling there first.

AlphaShard said:

I think that the fact that we have a agreement about the Horseland and not about Copper-pig land says that we should be settling there first.

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Oh most definitely. We want that copper/pig/clam site. I was referring to get another settler to the horse site after we settle at the copper site. Actually, since we've learned that Mavericks don't have Sailing yet, I'm beginning to think we want a second settler soon to grab another site on the south island. Either at the second copper site (if there is one), or whatever strategic resource is bound to be near it's western desert area.

And I played through a few turns after the current micro, and I think that the consensus is correct and both Canopus and Sirius should build workers next. Growing Canopus to size 5 would take the time to build 2 warriors, and I think that would delay the worker too long.

I ended the current turn and updated the Turn Tracker thread here, including demographics. The Quatronian capital, The Continuum, is first (it's size 7) in the top 5 cities, Sirius is second, and Merlot castle third.

Next turn:

Enterprise moves north and Vesta boards. Vesta will disembark on the following turn before Enterprise moves.

Math is done, and we start Currency.

My vote is for Pallas to move 1NW to the pig hill and reveal more of the area around the potential city site. I think once Vesta reaches this arm/island she should proceed in a SW direction to explore the southern coast.

Personally I think we should settle the next 3-5 cities on Bode. Settling Anjennida (see the latest AMAZON message for why I'm calling it that) is about as urgent as settling the rest of Sol in my book. Especially given the monster production potential on Bode - once we settle there we can churn out the settlers to backfill.

I agree about not growing Canopus to 5. The time the worker would spend improving another tile there for the 5th citizen to work should be spent building a cottage near Sirius for when Sirius switches the scientists back off on T67. Or a grass hill mine for the same turn if we want to prioritise production.

I like the idea of heavy production on Bode and a commerce focus on Sol and probably Anjennida as well.

Irgy said:

Personally I think we should settle the next 3-5 cities on Bode. Settling Anjennida (see the latest AMAZON message for why I'm calling it that) is about as urgent as settling the rest of Sol in my book. Especially given the monster production potential on Bode - once we settle there we can churn out the settlers to backfill.

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I think at least one of the next 3-5 cities should be at the Anjennida (sounds like a medical condition) horse site. Two reasons: 1. horses/chariots would be good for overland exploring and barb axe defense; 2. we'd establish a foothold on that arm, and help AMAZON with fogbusting. But yes, I think we should grab as much of Bode as possible before the Mavericks arrive, so that should take priority.

So it sounds like the difference of opinions comes down almost entirely to the sense of urgency in settling the horse city. So, just to broaden the discussion, this is my overall settling priority list:

1. Pig-Copper-Clams on Bode
2. Pig-Clams-Clams on the eastern end of Bode (the clams in the channel between Bode and Anjennida)
3. The resource on Bode in the equivalent location to Anjennida's marble
4. Horse-Clams on Anjennida
5. Marble.
6. Anywhere we can still get away with claiming on Bode.
7. A southern grassland/jungle site on Anjennida (not sure how much room there is, maybe we can fit another couple).
8. Another Sol city (not sure which one first).
9. The remaining Sol city.
10. Filler, whales city, anything else we can get our hands on.

And obviously you would move the horses up to #2, and be inclined to get them out sooner.

Personally I don't feel a need for getting when we have copper. Let me put it this way; if having no resources was '0', and having both metal and horses was '10', I'd say having just horses is '7' (against barbs anyway, '5' against humans with metal because they'll spam spearmen) and having just metal is '8.5'.

Actually, that priority list looks OK to me. I think I would have made the horse site #3, but I can agree that claiming as much of Bode as possible should be the higher priority. I would aim for 6 cities by 1 AD, and having one of those be the horse site is fine.

Edit: If we wanted to be really bold, we could try try claim the other copper site on Bode, which I presume is to the SW of the site we see.

Trystero said:

Actually, that priority list looks OK to me. I think I would have made the horse site #3, but I can agree that claiming as much of Bode as possible should be the higher priority. I would aim for 6 cities by 1 AD, and having one of those be the horse site is fine.

Edit: If we wanted to be really bold, we could try try claim the other copper site on Bode, which I presume is to the SW of the site we see.

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No need to piss off Mavericks.