Turn Discussion Thread

pindicator said:

Don't we get some HP healed before the barb moves anyway? And since Vespa is at 1.8 already that should put him near 2.0 -- on top of Jungle & Hill, I say leave him there

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I tested it in World Builder. If we are at full strength, the barb's odds are 3%. In several instances the barb moved away rather than attack. I think we want to get rid of that barb before the settler arrives. I vote for staying in place.

DaveShack said:

OK, it's getting a little weird. Why haven't any of our allies given us IW yet? Are we sure we're not getting played here?

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I really think this is a result of the fact that the team that researched the tech was not in contact with us when they joined the ETTA, and it just slipped Quatronia's mind, or they don't have particularly good communication between the diplomat and the turnplayer. I don't think anything more nefarious is going on. I've been pretty deferential in my requests to Quatronia, as well. As I said in the diplomacy thread, I will directly request it before we distribute Currency.

Yeah, I doubt they're playing us, if they are they should have waited longer, because if they show their hand at IW we'll be in a good position to make a 3 way tech alliance with Merlot and the Mavericks, catch them up on techs, and start out-teching the ETTA within a short ammount of time, before they have the potential to really hurt us. I imagine Trystero is right about the cause of the delay, and I'd suggest that we should send a message to all of our ETTA partners reminding them that we don't have IW yet and requesting it directly from the next player to enter the game. The last thing we want to do is create an incident by delaying currency on purpose, in response to a mistake. We should give them a clear and direct statement of the current problem before doing anything hostile.

I agree with leaving the warrior in place, that's a great defensive tile I doubt we'd have a problem winning.

One more note. Since we are the top team in tech rate maybe we should consider scaling back a little now that we're in a tech trading alliance (once this IW issue is worked out of course) We can reduce our tech rate and still contribute a fair ammount of beakers to our allies, while also building a gold reserve for future deficit research or upgrades.

The majority seem to agree with leaving Vesta where she is, so I ended the turn

Turn 63 -1480 AD

Our 2nd worker was completed in Canopus and is moving to finish the cottage 1N2W of Sirius. Canopus is now building a settler (8 turns).



Vesta is fortified on a jungle hill with a barbarian to her NE. Pallas is still fortified and healing near the Arcturus site. The galley with the settler and Lord Parkin will reach the Arcturus site in 2 turns.



Voyager continued around the SE arm of the great star and should be approaching CDZland.

grant2004 said:

We should give them a clear and direct statement of the current problem before doing anything hostile.

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How about something like this:

Dear ETTA members,

This is just a brief note to remind you that we have not as yet received Iron Working from an ETTA member although it was researched a few turns ago. We believe this is simply an oversight owing to the fact that we were not in contact with CDZland at the time this technology was distributed. We are now at a point where we are making decisions about where to found new cities and how best to employ our workers, and we would therefore request that someone gift us this technology in-game as soon as possible (this turn). We feel it best not to make these sorts of requests through in-game diplomatic channels since the nature of diplomacy would be obvious to our opponents. Many thanks for your help with matter.

Sincerely,

Trystero, Sirian Diplomat

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Just a thought how about we take longer turns until we get our IW? Doesn't hurt anyone or cause incidents and we get some time to get the Tech promised to us. Especially if Quatronia is getting ready to start a war on Merlot already.

I'd like to get Vesta to the Arcturus site to protect the worker and alow it to get improvements done.

Sounds good. Think it would be better to talk with Irgy since he's mentioning it to the Amazons, too? So that we wouldn't sound too desynchronized.

EDIT: How many turns a unit stays idle after disembarking? Is it available right after?

AlphaShard said:

Just a thought how about we take longer turns until we get our IW? Doesn't hurt anyone or cause incidents and we get some time to get the Tech promised to us. Especially if Quatronia is getting ready to start a war on Merlot already.

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Sure, but we don't have any free worker turns until turn 70, since we want to cottage tiles for the 2 scientists in Sirius to work as soon as the GS is done and the Academy built. So I don't think having IW would change any of the next few turns.

I'd like to get Vesta to the Arcturus site to protect the worker and alow it to get improvements done.

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This seems reasonable to me. There are a lot of barbs around at the moment. Providing some defense for the worker seems prudent, at least until Pallas is fully healed.

The barb activity reinforces my belief that we should get the horse city up and running sooner, before barb axes start showing up.

Alltriia said:

EDIT: How many turns a unit stays idle after disembarking? Is it available right after?

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A unit is idle the turn it disembarks. It can move normally the next turn. This is why we are going to disembark onto the forested tile, for defensive purposes.

Trystero said:

The galley with the settler and Lord Parkin will reach the Arcturus site in 2 turns.

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No, the settler and Lord Parkin will disembark from the galley *next* turn. You will have to manually select them to do so, there won't be a reminder, so watch out for it as an extra thing to do.

Trystero said:

How about something like this:

Dear ETTA members,

This is just a brief note to remind you that we have not as yet received Iron Working from an ETTA member although it was researched a few turns ago. We believe this is simply an oversight owing to the fact that we were not in contact with CDZland at the time this technology was distributed. We are now at a point where we are making decisions about where to found new cities and how best to employ our workers, and we would therefore request that someone gift us this technology in-game as soon as possible (this turn). We feel it best not to make these sorts of requests through in-game diplomatic channels since the nature of diplomacy would be obvious to our opponents. Many thanks for your help with matter.

Sincerely,

Trystero, Sirian Diplomat

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It's fine, the only thing I'll say is that I was considering writing a four-way email to discuss the tech path of the ETTT, and was planning on adding a whinge about IW to that email. It seems silly that the first four way email that gets sent is a complaint.

Trystero said:

A unit is idle the turn it disembarks. It can move normally the next turn. This is why we are going to disembark onto the forested tile, for defensive purposes.

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Defensive purposes? It's a settler and a worker, if there's a barb then a +50% bonus won't save them. We can fortunately see all of the adjacent tiles though so it's safe anyway. We're offloading there because it saves us a turn, by offloading diagonally next turn then moving and settling the turn after.

Trystero said:

The barb activity reinforces my belief that we should get the horse city up and running sooner, before barb axes start showing up.

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Axemen are perfectly good at protecting us from barb axes. They can't attack into them, but barbarians have a convenient habit of attacking you if you fortify on a hill or forest next to them. It is better to have chariots than not, but I still don't see it as a higher priority than blocking land from Mavericks.

AlphaShard said:

I'd like to get Vesta to the Arcturus site to protect the worker and alow it to get improvements done.

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Vesta does a better job of protecting the worker by spawn-busting where he is than he would by moving somewhere else.

Irgy said:

No, the settler and Lord Parkin will disembark from the galley *next* turn. You will have to manually select them to do so, there won't be a reminder, so watch out for it as an extra thing to do.

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Whoops. Yes, and this is specified in the micro plan, which I consult before playing every turn. I must have been recalling the galley movement from the beginning of the turn. Nothing is automated. We have no pending go-to orders, so the turn player would have to move the galley to the offloading site.

It's fine, the only thing I'll say is that I was considering writing a four-way email to discuss the tech path of the ETTT, and was planning on adding a whinge about IW to that email. It seems silly that the first four way email that gets sent is a complaint.

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OK, it could be incorporated into that message rather than sent separately. But this has been an issue for several turns and my impression was that we wanted this resolved soon. FWIW, I thought the note I composed was more of an explicit reminder or request for action, rather than much of a complaint.

Defensive purposes? It's a settler and a worker, if there's a barb then a +50% bonus won't save them. We can fortunately see all of the adjacent tiles though so it's safe anyway. We're offloading there because it saves us a turn, by offloading diagonally next turn then moving and settling the turn after.

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Ack. I had so many concerns about fortifying warriors on jungle hills in my head, I was writing as if there was a warrior with them. Of course those units are helpless against barbs. I even went through this micro with Irgy.

Irgy said:

Vesta does a better job of protecting the worker by spawn-busting where he is than he would by moving somewhere else.

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While I agree this is OK for the next few turns until one of the two warriors is fully-healed, I thought we'd decided that one of the warriors should explore while the other protects Arcturus. Given the increased barb activity, are we now switching our preference to have both warriors defend Arcturus until it builds an axeman for exploration?

Trystero said:

OK, it could be incorporated into that message rather than sent separately. But this has been an issue for several turns and my impression was that we wanted this resolved soon. FWIW, I thought the note I composed was more of an explicit reminder or request for action, rather than much of a complaint.

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Well, I'll get on with writing the tech planning email then so we can still resolve it soon.

What you wrote wasn't phrased as a complaint. I still see it as a complaint no matter how it's phrased though.

Trystero said:

While I agree this is OK for the next few turns until one of the two warriors is fully-healed, I thought we'd decided that one of the warriors should explore while the other protects Arcturus. Given the increased barb activity, are we now switching our preference to have both warriors defend Arcturus until it builds an axeman for exploration?

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Well, I am anyway. I feel no rush to see what's at the tip of Bode, and Arcturus needs all the protection it can get.

Irgy said:

Well, I'll get on with writing the tech planning email then so we can still resolve it soon.

What you wrote wasn't phrased as a complaint. I still see it as a complaint no matter how it's phrased though.

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But we are complaining. It occurs to me, that it might be simplest just to request IW from Quatronia in-game through the diplomacy screen. Sure, Everybody will know we got something from them via trade, but that would hardly be much of a secret at this point. Regardless, I think we can wait for IW through email diplomacy, since it doesn't affect the next few turns.

Irgy said:

Well, I am anyway. I feel no rush to see what's at the tip of Bode, and Arcturus needs all the protection it can get.

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I'm fine with this, as well. I was just pointing out that this deviates from the consensus when we last discussed (in broad terms) what to do with the warriors. Granted, circumstances have changed, and we should adjust our plans accordingly. And although I'm not very interested in the tip of Bode, I'd like to know what's going on on the southern side, so we can keep abreast of Mavericks moves.

If we sent Lord Parkin over with the settler, how would he not have something to do? Since this is such a critical game I'd rather not leave our defenses to chance. As soon as Arcturus is settled the worker can work the Copper and/or Pig.

Turn 64 -1440 AD

Currency completed, Code of Laws begun.

Our 2nd worker, now named Trystero, is to working on the cottage 1N2W of Sirius. Canopus is now building a settler (7 turns).



Vesta is moving toward Arcturus site, moved 1NW onto a hill. Pallas is still fortified and healing near the Arcturus site. The galley with the settler and Lord Parkin have reached the shoreline, and deposited them onto the forest. Also Incense can be seen to the south of where Vesta was.



Voyager continued around the SE arm of the great star and should be approaching CDZland.



Demographics:



Please check Espionage thread for additional Powergraph information.

I also didn't end turn since were waiting for IW, noticed that Quatronia has ended their turn.

AlphaShard said:

Also Incense can be seen to the south of where Vesta was.

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That's odd, has that been visible the whole time?

Have we revealed the equivalent square on Anjennida?

I am not sure how long it's been visible, perhaps when Vesta walked by the lake there it was revealed. I haven't seen any other Incense but I LOVE that it's on a plain, instead of freaking Desert.

AlphaShard said:

Our 2nd worker, now named Trystero, is to working on the cottage 1N2W of Sirius. Canopus is now building a settler (7 turns).

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Thanks AlphaShard. I don't mean to appear overly modest, but shouldn't we follow the order established here?

Vesta is moving toward Arcturus site, moved 1NW onto a hill. Pallas is still fortified and healing near the Arcturus site. The galley with the settler and Lord Parkin have reached the shoreline, and deposited them onto the forest. Also Incense can be seen to the south of where Vesta was.

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OK - now I'm a bit confused. Weren't we just discussing leaving Vesta on the jungle hill to fogbust? Also, did she actually fight the barb warrior? If not it might still be in the area. We should watch out for that.

And, yeah. I don't know how that tile got revealed, or how I didn't notice it.

I also didn't end turn since were waiting for IW, noticed that Quatronia has ended their turn.

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As I said before, I don't think it's that big a deal since IW doesn't affect anything for 4 or 5 turns. You can end the turn whenever. Merlot usually takes forever to end their turn anyways.

Trystero said:

OK - now I'm a bit confused. Weren't we just discussing leaving Vesta on the jungle hill to fogbust?

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In fact, weren't we right in the middle of this discussion just as Vesta was moved? Maybe that's the problem, Alphashard was possibly in the process of making the move while we were having the discussion?

I'm sure it has to do more with tile assignments, but we only have a 1 beaker improvement after Currency came in? At least, I hope it has to do with tiles worked!

Regarding the settler being built in Canopus: From what we see right now, I would advocate a city in 1 of 2 locations:
1. 'City d' -- the Horse city location on Andromeda. Taking control of another strategic resource, and it is a very nice commerce city location. Plus there are several forests available to get infrastructure going. The downside to this location is that we need to make more military to defend further out, especially since Amazon has the Great Wall -- all barbs on Andromeda will head to us.
2. 'City B' on the mainland. It may not be spectacular, but it has some notable plusses: Lots of forests for quick development, already in a secure location so we do not need to create more military, in a location that is already within our existing supply lines -- in other words, we do not need to worry about defense, and logistics are far better than another off-site island. But are these bigger plusses than horses and claiming more land?

Irgy said:

In fact, weren't we right in the middle of this discussion just as Vesta was moved? Maybe that's the problem, Alphashard was possibly in the process of making the move while we were having the discussion?

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Yeah, that's probably what happened. I logged-in to check the turn log, Vesta did indeed win the fight with minimal damage, apparently (1.8/2 hp). After some thought, I agree with AlphaShard's plan. With all the hills, we won't see a barb until it's one tile away. Next turn, I think Vesta should move to the copper hill and heal there while defending the worker.

pindicator said:

I'm sure it has to do more with tile assignments, but we only have a 1 beaker improvement after Currency came in? At least, I hope it has to do with tiles worked!

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Well, we only have two cities at the moment. I don't think Currency affects yield from tiles, just trade routes.