Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

Fight Fight Fight Fight!!

lol JK. Fight in my thread and the Romans win. Seriously. They do.

Oh and one of the Balkan cells is unhappy with your decision, Whosit, and has risen up anyway, now hating us. The genuine movement is angered and disgusted by the actions of Cell Albania and is now more fully behind England and Whosit then ever.

There was also an incident earlier today where a Copperhead group picketed the funeral of Private James C. McLane near London and said that his death was foreordained and "the will of Stonehenge", as well as blessing "the Romans who punish England for her arrogance". McLane's father and younger brother, along with several of their friends, attacked the picketers with fists, chairs, tables and whatever else they could get their hands on and were injured in the brawling. A unit of Riot Police eventually separated the fight and the McLanes and their friends have been apprehended for assault. The Copperhead ringleader and all but one of his crew have escaped.

- Lighthearter

Ally with China. Best chance we got.

Egypt/India versus Zulu is interesting.

Those Arabian figures don't look good ... or natural.

It also looks like we need to focus our espionage spending on someone besides Russia. The Vikings, perhaps? Also note that the Russian power level is ascending rapidly, so I agree with Aysee that taking every reasonable effort to avoid offending the Russians would be smart at this stage.

Balkans: So, what, did the coin land on the edge? Guess we'll have to see how that turns out since there's not much that we can do about it at the moment. Perhaps we should remove our support from the "Albania Cell" and show favor to this genuine movement?

Protests: Gee, why does this sound so familiar? I don't suppose the Copperheads' ringleader is named Phelps? The protesters' statements border on treason (blessing our enemy, Rome). What do the rest of you think?

@Cull: I don't see a China up there....

Nevermind, its the Mongols.

Cull said:

Ally with China. Best chance we got.

Egypt/India versus Zulu is interesting.

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We dont know china yet. Kublai Khan is the leader of the irish mongols.

Russia is furious with us. There is no chance with that anyway. But there is always a cowardly option. You cant just say there isnt because of a certain situation, or because it fits your arguement. Carthage...well i think we should attack them, not befriend them. I guess i could live with themthere, but i do not want to 'ally' them. Stay on their good side, but dont become friends in case we want to attack them later. Although that might be a bad idea since everybody likes him.

Ally egypt and india. Vikings maybe, but if we war with russia you know they wont back us.

Why do we only have peter on the power graph? We know plenty of other nations.

Whosit said:

Those Arabian figures don't look good ... or natural.

It also looks like we need to focus our espionage spending on someone besides Russia. The Vikings, perhaps? Also note that the Russian power level is ascending rapidly, so I agree with Aysee that taking every reasonable effort to avoid offending the Russians would be smart at this stage.

Balkans: So, what, did the coin land on the edge? Guess we'll have to see how that turns out since there's not much that we can do about it at the moment. Perhaps we should remove our support from the "Albania Cell" and show favor to this genuine movement?

Protests: Gee, why does this sound so familiar? I don't suppose the Copperheads' ringleader is named Phelps? The protesters' statements border on treason (blessing our enemy, Rome). What do the rest of you think?

@Cull: I don't see a China up there....

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I ask permission for my zealots to hunt these protestors, and i ask for a pardon to be given to the family of the dead soldier. They were provoked and had reason to attack.

But why would the ringleader be named phelps?

Yes taking reasonable attempts not to OFFEND the russians is acceptable. I just dont want to befriend them. Its common sense not to offend someone stronger than you unless there are idealogical issues. Aysee is wrong there. Idealology is the cornerstone of foriegn policy. Most of the time.

Quick note: I was going to crunch numbers on Antium as a Heroic Epic candidate, but I'm going to scrap it for one important reason: It's not coastal. If not now, naval power will become increasingly important, so I think that our HE city should be coastal. Possibly Rome, if we take the city and it has good production. But I strongly support a coastal HE city.

We can argue semantics on what it means to "befriend" another nation and whether or not attacking a "friend" is "cowardly," but, pragmatically, I just want to try and keep our neighbors happy enough with us that they do attack us out of the blue.

LH: Can you tell us the reasons Peter and Saladin give us for those big minuses? I want to know if they are things that may go away or not.

I imagine that we only see one graph because we have not been micromanaging our espionage. We only get 4 EP/T, and we need a certain number to see charts. By default, the game spreads EP out as thinly as possible if you don't direct how they are spent. The AI spends EP on us, raising the threshold to see their charts. We'll have to focus on one AI at a time to see their charts, and build Courthouses in every city after the war.

Ah, something else: How's the Settler in Liverpool coming, LH? Yes, yes, I'm so demanding.

arya126 said:

I ask permission for my zealots to hunt these protestors, and i ask for a pardon to be given to the family of the dead soldier. They were provoked and had reason to attack.

But why would the ringleader be named phelps?

Yes taking reasonable attempts not to OFFEND the russians is acceptable. I just dont want to befriend them. Its common sense not to offend someone stronger than you unless there are idealogical issues. Aysee is wrong there. Idealology is the cornerstone of foriegn policy. Most of the time.

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You may lead your zealots in search of the protesters, but I want them alive to stand trial. We have a Code of Laws (well, we're almost there!) to uphold. By that same token, I cannot grant the pardon to the family of the dead soldier. I truly feel for them, and believe that the acts of the protesters were reprehensible and provocative, but Assault is still a crime; to decide otherwise is to say that it is OK to attack those who annoy or offend you. However, I will urge the judge to give them the lightest sentence possible.

Phelps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

In reality, ideology certainly plays a large role in foreign policy. In a perfect world (well, my perfect world), ideology would take a back-seat to rational decision-making. I assume that Aysee holds a similar belief.

:weed: Totally forgot about naval units, just assumed crunching land units. In that case, I agree with Rome assuming good production.

I think that the reason why we can only see one graph is because most of the other civs have CoL, and courhouses, with their +2 esp points.

Settler not done. How much pop does it cost to whip ATM?

it is my opinion that the Copperheads have committed treason by blessing our enemies,and should be punished accordingly.after all,our society has not developed to the point of free speech yet. that said,I think it should be a crime to protest at a soldier's funereal.namely,treason against England for dishonoring our brave warriors.I shall ask the President to decide the punishment for treason

Dont whip the settler. Just let it finish. We need the POP.

Keep the neighbors NEUTRAL, except egypt and india, who we should befriend.

I would still like antium as the HE city, merely because naval units can be produced regularly, and land units are what we will need to produce most of. We have plenty of coastal cities for ships, so the HE isnt needed as a coastal city. We need a land city for troops.

arya126 said:

Dont whip the settler. Just let it finish. We need the POP.

Keep the neighbors NEUTRAL, except egypt and india, who we should befriend.

I would still like antium as the HE city, merely because naval units can be produced regularly, and land units are what we will need to produce most of. We have plenty of coastal cities for ships, so the HE isnt needed as a coastal city. We need a land city for troops.

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let's plan for the future,shall we?

someday,we will need a navy,and thus it makes sense to put it in a coastal city against future need.and any coastal city can build troops too.why not London?

We need the settler, and the trade routes it brings more than 1 pop than can be regrown in 5 turns at most.

No it cant cull, we took away the deer remember?

I never said we wouldnt need a navy nuke. In fact, i have been pushing for one during my stay as head of the military. I just said that we wouldnt need to build ships from a heroic epic city, since we already have so many coastal cities that, when combined, can mass build ships in a few turns. I would rather have the HE city focus on troops all the time, rather than build ships too.

London doesnt work as it will be building wonders and other infra as well. We want a city that doesnt NEED that stuff, and can build military all the time.

The fish as well as the crabs is enough.

Um... how is Saladin so upset with us?

Second, Arya, you're not in the opposition anymore, remember? Stop yelling at the Prez, or he'll kick you out and implement ML again. I'm sure there'll be enough support for that.

Just tell me when to play the next turnset.

- Lighthearter

LH- Whosit said he would send the finalized version of the plan tomorow, although that dealy was for me to think of anything to add. I dont have anything. I will send the plan to you, and you can decide whether to play it sooner, or when whosit gives to yes. But he said he would send it over tomorow.

MN-You dont have to be in the opposition to oppose the president, or anyone for that matter. I will voice my opinion as much i wish to, until the man stops me. Whosit cant kick me out anyway. Part of the deal was that he couldnt dismiss me. Even if he could, then i would just go back to making his term hell.

Saladin was probably friends with rome, and is the enemy of someone who we like. They also probably have differing civics.

Cull- There are fish in Liverpool? Didnt know that.

There is a fish and clams there IIRC.

I thought there were only clams.

arya126 said:

Do we have any military units in the area to perform anti-partisan duty? Give them a warning, from me not the administration. If they do not stop, hordes of zealots will descend upon them and tear them to pieces.

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Oh the sheer irony! Arya do you have no shame acting in such a authoritatrian manner when you just spent so long playing the terrorist and complaining when the administration slowly started to take extreme steps to stop you oh nooooo instead when you have the power you just jump straight from "oh some people don't like the admin's choice" to "Kill them all! Our way is the only way!!! AGHHH"

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I need to go laugh some more.

Oh and there are two tiremes on the english sea. not one.

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Right i'm back.

Let's go find the quotes.

arya126 said:

I do not support whosit's plan. We need to take action NOW. If we wait too long they will rebel without our assistance, and either get taken by the russians, or we will have another hostile CIV near us, that will probably become a russian vassal in time.

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I ask the president to declare our support for this rebbellion immediatly. Like Cull has said, there is no middle ground. Either we support them, or we dont. And if we dont, then i will be deeply disappointed in the rest of the administration for allowing whosit to ignore these people rissing up against rome.

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Whosit said:

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Here is my new compromise solution, of sorts. We will support the rebels publicly, but privately inform them that if they plan to move early, we cannot guarantee that we will have military support available to assist them.

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Seizing Antium will be the next objective. After that, the bulk of our forces should move through central Europe (Neapolis, Cumae) before heading south-east towards Balkans--is that Mediolanum or whatever I can see east of Setia?),

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Depending on how things go with our Baltic friends, we may be able to advance to that region from two directions. I'm not terribly concerned with seizing Rome itself immediately, since we can completely cut it off from the rest of its empire.

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(Arya, I did read your last plan, and this is somewhat based on that, but if we're going to throw our support in for the Baltic people, we'll have to make it priority to head east.)

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arya126 said:

NO! I am sorry, but i cant support that plan whosit. Italy has to be taken now. There is a much more logical way to change the plan to assist the rebels rather than taking it apart.

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buh? Germany must be taken NOW but also Rome must be taken NOW and we can't concentrate on one and we can't split because that takes time? Is that what you are saying Arya? I am honestly confused at your war skills

I'm unsure what the problem is with the Whosit war plans. It seems people want both Rome and Germany and are unwilling to stop advancing on one front. So they want to advance on both, but they don't want to wait for troops so they want to advance with the little amounts we have. Sounds like people are trying to plan a war emotionally instead of logically. Wars are lost in this way. The Army can't do everything. Tactics and Strategy when dumbed down become 'hit them where they are weak, fortify where you are strong' The plan of taking the weakly defended Antium THEN advancing into germany seems to make perfect sense.

*sigh* but them i'm trying to argue logically and i'm sure someone will give an emotion filled rant that makes little sense to anyone but them in response.

NOTE: Vikingland and Russia are perfect friends. If we declare war on one we will get war on another unless we convert vikingland or russia first.