Turn Discussion Thread

@Blubmuz: Actually Irgy, Azzaman and I addressed this awhile ago. Irgy stated that were in a game of survival so we need to focus on a few first. Azzaman said we need to shoot for rifleman. I proposed that we go for Domination victory that we needn't fight Amazon if we conquer enough of the other civs.

We can break the ETTT but that might get us dog piled.
Rifleman vs rifleman? it's the same that warrior vs warrior. Rifleman are good if the counters are LB and maces.
For high we shoot, if we stay in the ETTT with all the 4 teams, this can be true for infantry or tanks.

I agree that probably a domination does not need to fight Amazon.
Provided we can be faster than them to conquer land.
If we are in tech parity, i won't see any reason why we can be so faster than them.
Or you think they will play like the AI and settle one tiles islands?
In water-rich map like this, domination is not too easy. The land tiles in our home island are the same a single city can control.

What about the circumnavigation bonus?

And, yes, forges ASAP, please!
 
Blub
Here a list of techs we got or researched:
1720 Hunting (59), Myst (74), Archery and Priest (89), Masonry and Medi (119), Poly (149), Mono (179), Math (373), Alpha (448)
1400 Iron (299), Currency (598)
1280 Calender (522)
1240 CoL (522), Mona (448)
1200 MC (672)
850 CS (1196), Compass (598)
825 Theo (747)
800 Machinery (1046
650 Paper (897)
 
I don't think it makes sense to break the ETTA now we aren't ready to conquer the Mavericks and Merlot yet. Once we're well on our way towards eliminating them it will be time to consider dropping Quatronia and CDZ from the alliance. If we drop too early we risk a realignment of the alliances where Quatronia and CDZ gift our enemies techs and establish their own trading agreement.
 
This can be a good reason.

I got a plan:
We can research the techs to 90%, i'm mostly referring to the 2 Lib pre-requisites.
Then we're not forced to give them away. We can always tell our Partners we're massively upgrading to justify the drop in research.

We can direct our partners research to different techs and continue to partially research techs we'll decide to take in charge.
If we tell them that we're trying to shoot high for Lib, we can justify the research of other techs.

In this way we'll recover some beakers/gold and once we decide, we'll break the ETTT, we can arrive to Lib in 2-3 turns.

I'm just thinking to (viscid) way to squeeze the best out of our "alliances".

Another aspect of this strategy can be that we can work more hammer-rich tiles, since the research will cease to be important for some turn.
And that we can actually upgrade some unit, if we so decide.
 
Blub
Here a list of techs we got or researched:
1720 Hunting (59), Myst (74), Archery and Priest (89), Masonry and Medi (119), Poly (149), Mono (179), Math (373), Alpha (448)
1400 Iron (299), Currency (598)
1280 Calender (522)
1240 CoL (522), Mona (448) ??? in Venetian means stupid, what does it means here? construction, maybe?
1200 MC (672)
850 CS (1196), Compass (598)
825 Theo (747)
800 Machinery (1046)

650 Paper (897)
Thanks! i've put in red the ones we obtained from our "allies"
Please correct where i'm wrong.
You missed Writing and the wheel/pottery. We researched ourselves, like sailing. Plus the free techs of mining and fishing which we not traded.
 
Lots of ideas of stuff for discussion.

I think Hebe should get woodsman and defend. I agree with upgrade plan you proposed Trystero.

The more I think about it, the more I think Combat I is the better way to go for Hebe, since it has more long term usefulness. WM is good for early exploring warriors, but we will chop down all the jungle eventually, and Combat we be more useful on upgraded units.

On the diplo front is it plausible to ask for just two citys on Ajenda the Carib and City d location?

I'd really like at least 3 cities on Anjennida, or city d moved south so we get better overlap with the pigs/clam/clam city on Bode. But, we should dot map and discuss it.

I 've a question: When do we build forge?.

I 've seen
We build a worker in Canopus, why?
If we build a forge and go on maximum growing, we can whip in 5 turns with :food: 22/34 and :hammers: 51/120 and work the fp-cottage in 2 turns. with pop 5-6 we grow in 2-3 turns, so worker should be whipped in Can then after growing to pop 6-7. That is better then use the food direct in building them.

If I understand this correctly, this is a good argument for building a forge in Canopus. And I will switch the build, unless there]is a strong argument against. I choose a worker, since we need workers. But Canopus has Confucianism and will get the bonus from OR, so building buildings seems like a rational decision. Thanks for the input.

Should we have HUSch (the worker) mine the plains hill in Canopus, or plantation a silk tile that can be shared by Canopus and Alpha Centauri? I am currently favoring the mine, since we need more production, but we'll need the plantations soon for trade, and it will be an instant commerce boost.

btw
I don't like upgrade a warrior without experience.

I usually don't like to do this either, but I look at this as leveraging our GNP advantage to quickly produce a maceman so that we ensure we capture a city. In these terms, the gold is invested to provide us with a maceman and a city.

BLubmuz: I think Grant addressed your general question about the ETTA, but I will give it some more consideration. My initial response is that we did not simply give away our tech lead, we traded it for an alliance which gave us some measure of security. So part of what we gain is Amazon, Quatronia and CDZ not attacking us. I don't have much MP experience, but my sense is that you don't last long alone in MP games. But again, this is just my first thought. I will think over your question more carefully, and make sure I am thinking about this clearly. (Sorry, it's been a long day helping out at my son's school and then going to a dinner party, so I'm not sure how clearly I'm thinking at the moment.)

And I agree, we need to start thinking more long term, but I think the immediate goal should be trying to capture the Mavericks home island before Quatronia. I will point out that, if we want a domination VC, we seem to be doing well at grabbing land peacefully. This is one reason I think we are currently focused on expansion. Land is power, and Bode is just sitting there for us.

Edit: I looked at the actual game and fooled around with my test save. I am not inclined to build a forge next in Canopus. It (like several of our cities) is still underdeveloped. It only has 1 mined hill to work at the moment. I think we need the workers being built in Canopus and Alpha Centauri to improve those two cities. We have 5 workers for 5 cities. I also think this is a good argument for sending HUSch there to improve the plains hill with a mine. Finally, it has two fish tiles but no lighthouse. I would build that before the forge to speed recovery from the whip. We also need missionaries to spread Confucianism to all our cities. Again, I am not arguing that a forge is not a good idea, or desirable, just that we have more pressing immediate needs.

Edit2: Also, we received maps from Quatronia. I have not ended the turn, but I'm going to bed, and I am unlikely to log in again before the next turn starts. I have finished the moves that needed to be made and taken screen shots. I will file my report tomorrow. If there is general agreement that a forge (or something else) is better than the worker in Canopus, we can switch the build next turn.
 
Turn 89 - 650 BC

We completed Paper, and started researching Philosophy. We reduced the research slider to 0% to accumulate wealth, and received maps from Amazon and Quatronia.

On Sol:

  • Maceman (Iris) completed in Canopus, started a worker.
  • Iris moved toward Sirius to board Enterprise.
  • HUSch moved to the plains hill 1E of Canopus to start a mine.
  • caveman1917 began a cottage 1N of Sirius.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0255.jpg


On Bode:

  • hell hound moved to the stone at Vega to begin a quarry.
  • Lord Parkin moved 1S to begin mining/roading a green hill.
  • AlphaShard began mining the green hill 1W of Arcturus.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0254.jpg


  • The barbarian warrior moved 1W.
  • Hebe moved 1W to the jungle hill to block the barb.
  • Astraea moved 1NE.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0253.jpg


The map from Quatronia revealed the positions of the Mavericks cities to the south of us:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0257.jpg


Edit: Also I just noticed Confucianism passively spread to Alpha Centauri. That saves some hammers. :)
 
Trystero
What did you do in Can now?
My main proposal is, that we get more from food if we whip than build a worker.
Canopus is a good growing town to whip from 6 to 4 people. Then you get with forge +15 :hammers:.
If you build a forge and then the worker, the worker is 3 turns later and we have 1 people more additional to the forge. I would say the same is right in AC, but there we builded the worker a long time.
Imo it's crazy to build a granary and next a worker, better is then growing and whip the worker. 1 people costs (with granary) <15 food and give 30 :hammers: (+ bonus).
This is right only, if there is no problem with :).


btw
In the moment we 've not enough people to work the tiles.


@Blubmuz
We can research the techs to 90%, i'm mostly referring to the 2 Lib pre-requisites.
Then we're not forced to give them away. We can always tell our Partners we're massively upgrading to justify the drop in research.
I don't think that you can hide your not researching. That is possible perhaps in Pbems but not in PBs.:)
 
A quick update:

A new turn is up: The barb warrior moved SW around the lake. I am thinking we should fortify and heal Hebe where she is, since she blocks the barb from going that way. I also suggest moving Astraea 1NE to intercept the barb if it heads NW.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0258.jpg


Trystero
What did you do in Can now?
My main proposal is, that we get more from food if we whip than build a worker.
Canopus is a good growing town to whip from 6 to 4 people. Then you get with forge +15 :hammers:.
If you build a forge and then the worker, the worker is 3 turns later and we have 1 people more additional to the forge. I would say the same is right in AC, but there we builded the worker a long time.
Imo it's crazy to build a granary and next a worker, better is then growing and whip the worker. 1 people costs (with granary) <15 food and give 30 :hammers: (+ bonus).
This is right only, if there is no problem with :).

OK - I think I see what you are saying. Canopus is rapidly growing, and is working more tiles than it has improved, so we should whip the pop into useful buildings, and we could use the increased productivity. I put the overflow hammers in the worker, but I can switch to the forge and get the worker in 1 turn when we whip the forge.

HUSch, could you take a look at the save. I think this would also be a good idea in Arcturus. We can whip that city this turn, and I was thinking we should build a barracks, but maybe a forge there first is a better idea, although it has more improved tiles to work.

Also, as a general planning question, how soon do we want to consider sending a settler to the south copper site on Bode?

Edit: I've updated my most current test save to include as much of the map information from Amazon and Quatronia as I could. You might find this useful if you want to look at the map but not log into the game itself. I haven't unfogged all the areas we know, so you'll need to enter World Builder to look at the map.
 

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Thanks! I will look it over and try to revise the micro plan tonight.

We should probably work on a list of building priorities for particular cities. We'll need the production capacity to build military soon.

Another
Quad give us Ästhetics and Optics

Am I the only one who thinks we should get a caravel somewhere fast and try to get the circumnavigation bonus? I think naval power will be a deciding factor in this game.

So now we switch over to Astronomy?

I sent a message to the rest of the ETTA asking if they were OK with us researching Astronomy, but we haven't heard back from them. We are going to accumulate cash for a few turns anyway, so I'll keep the research on Philosophy for now.
 
Am I the only one who thinks we should get a caravel somewhere fast and try to get the circumnavigation bonus? I think naval power will be a deciding factor in this game.

No, i think this is a great idea. In fact it may be worth whipping one out of canopus ahead of a forge just to get head start. The only problem is that with the world map trade we have to make sure we beat AMAZON to the punch; we should beat the other civs easily enough.
 
No, i think this is a great idea. In fact it may be worth whipping one out of canopus ahead of a forge just to get head start. The only problem is that with the world map trade we have to make sure we beat AMAZON to the punch; we should beat the other civs easily enough.

If we switch the build in Canopus, we can whip a caravel next turn for 2 pop.
 
My plan for this turn:

  • Hebe will fortify and heal in place. Astraea will move 1NE to cut off the barb warrior.
  • We will whip the granary in Arcturus and work both mines (see HUSch's plan here)
  • We will switch the build in Canopus to a caravel, and whip next turn.
  • We will keep the research slider at 0% to accumulate gold. We will upgrade the warrior in Sirius to a maceman next turn.

Update: we exchanged maps with CDZ. Also, according to our espionage, Quatronia is researching Drama.
 
Turn 90 - 625 BC

On Sol:

  • Maceman (Iris) continued toward Sirius to board Enterprise.
  • The warrior in Sirius (Juno) was upgraded to a maceman for 185 gold.
  • HUSch started mining the plains hill 1E of Canopus.
  • The build in Canopus was switched to a caravel.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0268.jpg


On Bode:

  • The barbarian warrior moved 1W.
  • Hebe fortified to heal in place, and Astraea moved 1NE to cut off the barb.
  • Whipped the granary in Arcturus for 2 pop, and Arcturus will work both mines for this turn.
  • hell hound began to quarry the stone in Vega, and Lord Parkin mined the green hill.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0266.jpg


Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0267.jpg


We are leaving the research slider at 0% to build up cash for Astronomy. We traded maps with CDZ, and received Aesthetics and Optics from Quatronia.

Next turn:

  • Whip the caravel in Canopus.
  • Arcturus starts a forge and works the pigs and copper tiles.
  • Sirius grows to size 8. Important: the new citizen works the forested plains hill, to generate enough hammers to finish an archer 1 turn after the harbor (turn 92)

HUSch was a great help in figuring out the whip micro for Arcturus (and spotted an opportunity in Canopus). I am nominating him as Team Whip Micro Expert and asking him to keep his eyes on the game for opportunities where we might gainfully use the whip.

Finally, Quatronia got a Great Prophet this turn and used it for the Buddhist shrine. They are currently researching Drama, most likely aiming for the free Great Artist from Music.

Edit: I double-checked the save, and it would currently take us 18 turns at 100% research (-17 gold/turn) to research Astronomy. So we need ~300 gold in the bank (or 2 more turns at 0%). Still no word from the other teams, so I'm still putting the few beakers we produce in Philosophy. No other team is likely to disagree with our plan, so perhaps we should switch to Astronomy?
 
Whip that caravel!
It's vital to acquire the circumnavigation bonus on this map.
 
Turn 91 (600 BC):
  • Whip the caravel in Canopus for 2 pop. Work both fish
  • Build a forge in Arcturus. Change the tile assignments to the pigs and copper.
  • Sirius grows to size 8, Change new citizen to the forested plains hill 1S of Sirius
  • Move Iris to the galley.
  • Do not move the newly upgraded maceman to galley yet, since this will cause unhappiness in Sirius.

I'm currently carrying out the above, I just wanted to check on what to do with Astraea:

Spoiler :
attachment.php


I was thinking fortfying in place to fogbust.
 

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