SGOTM 12 - Plastic Ducks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Aaaaah ! Ok !
I'll play right now, then !
Will edit this post with the report.
Save re-uploaded.
I didn't make peace with Gandhi, since he has Priesthood. Maybe we'll do so after putting some hammers into the Oracle.
Gandhi had Bronze Working on T55.
Stonehenge was built on T50 by Churchill.
Other than that, an uneventful set
Exploration showed Marble in the north. And another island in the south.
De Gaulle is indeed landlocked and has 2 archers at least. But he didn't go past our warrior.
Screenies :
Spoiler :
Official log :
Spoiler :
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
@ Corporations :
We can see 4 rice already and 6 seafood. Going for Sid's Sushis makes a lot of sense.
@ Tech path.
With Marble available we could tech a bit in the higher end of the research tree :
Aesthetics-Litterature is appealing.
Calendar is appealing (plenty of resources + Mausoleum).
Currency as well.
My guess is that we should research Currency first after Civil Service for the immediate commerce boost. Then go for the marble techs. But we don't know yet what will be available from the AIs (Gandhi tends to have Monarchy in the testgame).
@ Build orders. We will need a galley asap and an exploring workboat.
We can see 4 rice already and 6 seafood. Going for Sid's Sushis makes a lot of sense.
@ Tech path.
With Marble available we could tech a bit in the higher end of the research tree :
Aesthetics-Litterature is appealing.
Calendar is appealing (plenty of resources + Mausoleum).
Currency as well.
My guess is that we should research Currency first after Civil Service for the immediate commerce boost. Then go for the marble techs. But we don't know yet what will be available from the AIs (Gandhi tends to have Monarchy in the testgame).
@ Build orders. We will need a galley asap and an exploring workboat.
Nice work! 
Not much time to comment right now however.
With only SH gone, I'd rate our chances for Oracle+GLH as very high.
We also have a second location for an offshore city, very good! There are so many good coastal locations available, GLH will once again be a key wonder on the map.
I can see some uses in getting TGL in St-Pete as it will have Fish [2] + Cow [1] + lake+1 farm [1] = 4 specialists early on... however it's a bummer because it's a very good production center as well.
MoM we will capture later on.
Staying at war with Gandhi is an interesting point... make him think twice before starting Oracle.
Post-CS we will want to carefully consider what techs we get but that's for another time.
Not much time to comment right now however.
With only SH gone, I'd rate our chances for Oracle+GLH as very high.
We also have a second location for an offshore city, very good! There are so many good coastal locations available, GLH will once again be a key wonder on the map.
I can see some uses in getting TGL in St-Pete as it will have Fish [2] + Cow [1] + lake+1 farm [1] = 4 specialists early on... however it's a bummer because it's a very good production center as well.
MoM we will capture later on.
Staying at war with Gandhi is an interesting point... make him think twice before starting Oracle.
Post-CS we will want to carefully consider what techs we get but that's for another time.
Very good, there is another island in the south, I guess there are island chains to the east referring what Erkon described of the map. GLH will be a huge gain. Colossal could also be good.
Guess I am up next, this is a "got it" unless someone has time and interest now.
Edit: In the real game, ruins do not have road, don't know how Erkon did it, this will affect the worker micro for the test.
Guess I am up next, this is a "got it" unless someone has time and interest now.
Edit: In the real game, ruins do not have road, don't know how Erkon did it, this will affect the worker micro for the test.
Ruins without roads: easy to do in worlbduilder, tried it this morning. Just add ruins with the map tool (not razed cities)... can always right-click the ruins with road tool if that doesn't work.
Colossus could be interesting if we have Bronze (which we probably do)... low cost and we'll have a lot of water tiles - but this depends on when we want Astronomy a bit I think.
@Roster
Bugg/Nishant busy
hydraculas some time away for civ5
dingding busy?
BIC - just played
myself - played the set before
Guess it makes sense that you pick it up.
Colossus could be interesting if we have Bronze (which we probably do)... low cost and we'll have a lot of water tiles - but this depends on when we want Astronomy a bit I think.
@Roster
Bugg/Nishant busy
hydraculas some time away for civ5
dingding busy?
BIC - just played
myself - played the set before
Guess it makes sense that you pick it up.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Next set will be until Oracle is complete, right ?
I guess your plan is already nearly done
Depending on our expansion rate, there's a really cool site for a GP farm in the south :Kossin said:
Fish + pigs + rice + 2 hills.
But it is far away, so maybe we won't have it up and running soon enough. St Petersbourg is indeed a very good production city. Otherwise, TGL never hurts in the capital...
Next set will be until Oracle is complete, right ?
I guess your plan is already nearly done
I had done quite a few tests to GLH, so there is no more. I will post my plan tonight.However, there are always debating issues to be solved, although 1 only in my mind at the moment, and some more from you?
Peace with Gandhi. Notice that Gandhi has contact with Roosevelt already, if he find another contact, our techs on him will disappear then. So my vote is YES.
TGL is always best in capital.
1. Fastest build
2. academy
3. NE followed coherent with wonder spam in capital
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Peace with Gandhi either this turn or next turn would be ok with me.
I didn't notice he had made contact. That must be very recent (either this turn or last turn).
TGL : yep, it would make sense to build it in the capital, especially if we go for more wonders (Hanging Gardens, Parthenon, etc.).
Other issue : do we research Maths or CoL first ? CoL is more secure to get Confucianism but Maths would allow to trade for Alphabet earlier and to make peace with other AIs.
@ Kossin : yes, we can envision a good 15-20 cities empire. Then we need to destroy Stalin (10+ cities ?) and we will end up with a massive empire. I'm not sure it is in our interest to remain at war with AIs other than De Gaulle (taking his capital couldn't hurt).
Taking about war : Macemen could do it, but we also have the option to go Cats + Elephants.
I wasn't envisionning Wonder spam too much in Capital this time around due to massive REX required but we can make it work, no doubt given cheap settlers.
Peace with Gandhi: yes, I said take Peace earlier if he had PH.
CoL vs Math: Math is too cheap to trade for Alphabet and is high priority of AIs usually, meaning we can perhaps trade for it or get a beaker discount.
Peace with Gandhi: yes, I said take Peace earlier if he had PH.
CoL vs Math: Math is too cheap to trade for Alphabet and is high priority of AIs usually, meaning we can perhaps trade for it or get a beaker discount.
Tech path will be Masonry->CoL->Math, Even CoL is not enough to trade for Alpha alone.
Another question is "Do we want to gift CoL to Gandhi to get OB bonus earlier"
My vote is
Since it's costly to get +2 fair trade, if delay more, CoL will only net +1 fair trade. However, the disadvantage of gifting away CoL is significant since we will lose Phi almost for sure and that puts more danger on our plan of getting AL from Liberalism.
Another question is "Do we want to gift CoL to Gandhi to get OB bonus earlier"
My vote is
Since it's costly to get +2 fair trade, if delay more, CoL will only net +1 fair trade. However, the disadvantage of gifting away CoL is significant since we will lose Phi almost for sure and that puts more danger on our plan of getting AL from Liberalism.
So if I understand correctly, Gandhi went BW>PH and now ... ?
I was pretty certain he was going for Monotheism... probably heading there now I guess, unless he has no Bronze -> IW.
Anyway, I'd try to take Peace this turn and see if we can trade for Masonry the next turn to save some time towards CoL+Math.
I've done some more Camera Flying to evaluate what's in the dark:
1. Looking at the small island to our north... a few trees are good meaning instant production for starters.
2. This is looking to the NE from the top of the map (see the city ruins). We know there is water (ice in the way) in the area so there's probably another island there where the trees are seen.
3. Taken from around the capital, looking north. You can see the island I spoke of in 2., the known island North and then a bunch of trees just east of that.
4. This is close by the southern warrior, east at the new island... clearly there's a landmass after that island (or it can be connected if everything is flat)
5. This is the rest of our landmass, southwest... it's huge! (see #6)
6. just south of DG, looking southwest... trees pretty much non-stop.
I'll update the test game now as best as possible to reflect AIs and warrior losses.
I was pretty certain he was going for Monotheism... probably heading there now I guess, unless he has no Bronze -> IW.
Anyway, I'd try to take Peace this turn and see if we can trade for Masonry the next turn to save some time towards CoL+Math.
I've done some more Camera Flying to evaluate what's in the dark:
1. Looking at the small island to our north... a few trees are good meaning instant production for starters.
Spoiler :
2. This is looking to the NE from the top of the map (see the city ruins). We know there is water (ice in the way) in the area so there's probably another island there where the trees are seen.
Spoiler :
3. Taken from around the capital, looking north. You can see the island I spoke of in 2., the known island North and then a bunch of trees just east of that.
Spoiler :
4. This is close by the southern warrior, east at the new island... clearly there's a landmass after that island (or it can be connected if everything is flat)
Spoiler :
5. This is the rest of our landmass, southwest... it's huge! (see #6)
Spoiler :
6. just south of DG, looking southwest... trees pretty much non-stop.
Spoiler :
I'll update the test game now as best as possible to reflect AIs and warrior losses.
Updated test game
Some notes:
-it's a good thing BIC played, I had to do it 3 times over because I forgot to switch horse to Silk lol
-we're still ~10 beakers behind actual game
-I had to add some happiness in capital after suiciding 84 warriors.. put a Ball Court which doesn't modify anything but happiness.
That's about what I can think of... the northern warrior is just put anywhere, didn't check where he was supposed to be.
Hammers and food are what they should be.
Some notes:
-it's a good thing BIC played, I had to do it 3 times over because I forgot to switch horse to Silk lol
-we're still ~10 beakers behind actual game
-I had to add some happiness in capital after suiciding 84 warriors.. put a Ball Court which doesn't modify anything but happiness.
That's about what I can think of... the northern warrior is just put anywhere, didn't check where he was supposed to be.
Hammers and food are what they should be.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Whoah, flying camera is great !
Those are lots of infos. There must be another AI on our landmass that De Gaulle hasn't met. It's possible that he didn't send a unit scouting, yet
Can we spot where he settled Orleans from the culture ? I didn't try to...
I also forgot to state that Gandhi settled Vijayanangara on T62 - see official log. That's his 3rd city, meaning he's expanding fast : little fallout, few neighbours, lots of land ?
Maybe he's in a position where he won't prioritize wonders much ? Churchill had the Stonehenge whereas Gandhi loves to build it.
Hmmm... Maybe Gandhi had Priesthood prior to BW. We can't know for sure because we did not have any prerequisite to PH before T60.
Still, BW on T55 then PH on T60 or earlier is possible
And thanks for the testgame, Kossin. That's greatly appreciated
Those are lots of infos. There must be another AI on our landmass that De Gaulle hasn't met. It's possible that he didn't send a unit scouting, yet
Can we spot where he settled Orleans from the culture ? I didn't try to...
I also forgot to state that Gandhi settled Vijayanangara on T62 - see official log. That's his 3rd city, meaning he's expanding fast : little fallout, few neighbours, lots of land ?
Maybe he's in a position where he won't prioritize wonders much ? Churchill had the Stonehenge whereas Gandhi loves to build it.
Hmmm... Maybe Gandhi had Priesthood prior to BW. We can't know for sure because we did not have any prerequisite to PH before T60.
Still, BW on T55 then PH on T60 or earlier is possible
And thanks for the testgame, Kossin. That's greatly appreciated
I think DG's city is like the test game, on the tip to the NW of Paris... it most certainly isn't south, you'd have seen it.
Gandhi expanding fast is good, means he probably has not started the Oracle yet as he needs workers/archers... time will tell.
Maybe he'll waste some time on ToA/TGW
Gandhi expanding fast is good, means he probably has not started the Oracle yet as he needs workers/archers... time will tell.
Maybe he'll waste some time on ToA/TGW
OB with Gandhi is mainly for getting the diplomatic bonus sooner, the only way that we are able to trade with him is to bump him to cautious, I guess that we have to gift him something like currency or MC to gain +2 diplomatic bonus.
@BIC
The most possible site for 2nd french city is where the warrior stays.
Plan to Oracle
Tech path: Mansonry->CoL->Math
Tile management: If not mentioned specially, new citizen will worker on the tile by default.
Unit move: North warrior will keep scouting a little bit and return to SP since our workers will go out of border soon. South warrior will keep scouting along the coast to west. Warrior near Paris will stay alert.
T63 -- Peace with Gandhi (needs 3 or 4 techs), SP (N worker SF, W worker goes 1W, E worker goes 2W), R 0% on Masonry
T64 -- SP (N worker P, SW worker R, 2W SF), Mos (Worker), R 100%
T65
T66 -- SP (SW worker SF)
T67 -- Mosc (new worker goes 2W, resumes chariot)
T68 -- Mos (2W worker R), SP (1N worker goes 2S1W SF)
T69
T70 -- Mos (2W worker goes 1NW, chariot to Paris, resumes Oracle), SP (SW 1 worker goes 1S, another goes 1NW camp, 2W worker camp)
T71 -- SP ( 2 workers on hills SF)
T72 -- SP (2W 1worker goes 1SE camp, another worker goes 1SE camp & cancel, Starts GLH)
T73 -- SP (SW 1worker goes 3N)
T74 -- SP (2N1W worker R), Partial research slider 1 turn before GS
T75 -- Mos (GS builds academy, 2Cows + 2Golds + Horse), SP (1SW worker goes to COW R, Fish + Cow + 2Ivories), R 100%
T76 -- SP (2N1W worker goes 1NW deer)
T77 -- SP (worker on deer SF, 1N worker goes 2N to ruin), R on Math
T78 -- worker on ruin SF
T79
T80 -- SP (Lake tile to mine hill tile)
T81 -- Mos (starts settler), SP (2S worker R, 2S1W worker goes to COW)
T82 -- Mos (resumes Oracle), SP (1N worker goes 1NW SF&C)
T83 -- Oracle->Bureo
Upload the save
Test save is here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9658864&postcount=265
Tech path: Mansonry->CoL->Math
Tile management: If not mentioned specially, new citizen will worker on the tile by default.
Unit move: North warrior will keep scouting a little bit and return to SP since our workers will go out of border soon. South warrior will keep scouting along the coast to west. Warrior near Paris will stay alert.
T63 -- Peace with Gandhi (needs 3 or 4 techs), SP (N worker SF, W worker goes 1W, E worker goes 2W), R 0% on Masonry
T64 -- SP (N worker P, SW worker R, 2W SF), Mos (Worker), R 100%
T65
T66 -- SP (SW worker SF)
T67 -- Mosc (new worker goes 2W, resumes chariot)
T68 -- Mos (2W worker R), SP (1N worker goes 2S1W SF)
T69
T70 -- Mos (2W worker goes 1NW, chariot to Paris, resumes Oracle), SP (SW 1 worker goes 1S, another goes 1NW camp, 2W worker camp)
T71 -- SP ( 2 workers on hills SF)
T72 -- SP (2W 1worker goes 1SE camp, another worker goes 1SE camp & cancel, Starts GLH)
T73 -- SP (SW 1worker goes 3N)
T74 -- SP (2N1W worker R), Partial research slider 1 turn before GS
T75 -- Mos (GS builds academy, 2Cows + 2Golds + Horse), SP (1SW worker goes to COW R, Fish + Cow + 2Ivories), R 100%
T76 -- SP (2N1W worker goes 1NW deer)
T77 -- SP (worker on deer SF, 1N worker goes 2N to ruin), R on Math
T78 -- worker on ruin SF
T79
T80 -- SP (Lake tile to mine hill tile)
T81 -- Mos (starts settler), SP (2S worker R, 2S1W worker goes to COW)
T82 -- Mos (resumes Oracle), SP (1N worker goes 1NW SF&C)
T83 -- Oracle->Bureo
Upload the saveTest save is here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9658864&postcount=265
