SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

Settlers are 100 hammers, and I'm not sure how you determined he is investing 15hpt? (demo screen suggests 12 is the highest)

If he just finished a tech the current production can't be the Oracle as you said above

Could be Taj Mahal, GLH, Stonehenge, The Great Wall, but a settler seems the most likely. I guess there is no way to tell if he finished priesthood now. Unless we can estimate his research rate and guess at the techs that way?

Edit: I think the chariot is unnecessary. And wouldn't make it in time to make a difference anyways.
 
Yeah, how do you know about the 15hpt and 87h? If he just finished PH this turn, he certainly couldn't have 87h invested in Oracle. Not sure yet... Chariot wouldn't do anything. Our options are Oracle asap or wait for Sailing. Since no wonder is built yet, I seriously doubt we should expect an AI to be building Oracle already, though.

I guess we can take a little break, and see if we can back-track through DG's demo to get a better idea.
 
Well, I just tested the fabled 1h into Oracle trick and it...

Spoiler :
WORKS! :D

Well, sorta. DG was building the Oracle in 1520 BC in bcool's earlier test save. I tried giving myself PH and investing in Oracle just before he gets PH, and that didn't stop him. But, if I give myself PH and put a hammer into Oracle before he starts on PH, he doesn't even research it by 1520 BC.
 
I don't understand his score progression. Looking back through the TS reports, it looks to me like he didn't discover a tech between T34 and T53? The T48 increase is 21 = 5-6 for 1 pop and at least 9-10 (but likely more) for land. LC, can you check soldier numbers? Could it just be BW?
 
babybluepants said:
Well, I just tested the fabled 1h into Oracle trick and it...WORKS!
Click to expand...

Thanks for running the test and nice work. Since we know it has some impact on AI behavior, what's the soonest we can get a hammer into the GLH without totally screwing with our Oracle plans? It may already be too late, but I think the AI typically builds SH or GW first...
 
What my test seemed to confirm is that AI won't research a wonder tech if you invest a hammer. If they have the tech, they'll still build it. Sailing and Masonry are useful for multiple reasons (besides which a number of AI already have them). I don't think we can possibly use this on GLH. We probably don't need to - ideally we build only WB-LH-GLH and have Masonry in time for that.
 
bcool said:
Settlers are 100 hammers, and I'm not sure how you determined he is investing 15hpt? (demo screen suggests 12 is the highest)
Click to expand...
babybluepants said:
Yeah, how do you know about the 15hpt and 87h?
Click to expand...
The demo screen gives actual raw hammers (+ forge/etc. bonus). Settler builds use food-hammers and de Gaulle gets +50% on wonders. Either way his actual production could be 15hpt.

The espionage screen for Paris shows this:
Spoiler :
Code: 
                T52  T53
Sabotage bldg   381  381
sabotage prod   548  662

These values are based on roughly the same hammer multplier and 
sabotage bldg is for the the cheapest bldg Paris has = barracks = 50h. 
So we divide 381 by 50h and get: 381/50=7.6

So his current build looks like this:

T52 bldg: 548/7.6=72h
T53 bldg: 662/7.6=87h
change per turn: 15hpt

On T48, there was no sabotage prod given, meaning Paris'd just built something. 
4t*15hpt + K/overflow = 60h + K/overflow ==> K/overflow was 72h-60h=12h. 
Could happen.

Settler cost: 100h*.7(emporer)=70h < 87h
Stonehenge: 120h*.7=84h < 87h
 
babybluepants said:
Great Wall?
Click to expand...
Don't know but Trouble averted, at least for now. I checked the power change from T53 and it was 8000K, and I realized that no matter what, I could hit <enter>, because there was nothing else to do that turn. Hit <enter> and dG revolts to slavery! :king: :cool: :lol: :p :) ;) :D :blush: :crazyeye: :scan: :goodjob: :nuke:
 
Turnset T54-T55

Turn 54, 1840 BC
dG revolts to slavery
CHurchill +9

Turn 55, 1800 BC
Mao +11
Churchill +15
Paris build now at 102h !?! Can't be GLH (no lh), so I figure it's either Moai :lol: or Taj. :lol::lol: If Taj, we've got a bit of a problem because it means he won't build a settler till it's done. We'll have to monitor that and eventually threaten him in hopes of changing his build sequence around.

AIs still threaten only with archers. No new cities. Time to decide on Sailing or not.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1880 BC to 1800 BC:
Spoiler :

Turn 53, 1880 BC: Gandhi will trade Pottery
Turn 53, 1880 BC: You are the worst enemy of Churchill, De Gaulle, Roosevelt, Gandhi, Mao Zedong, Stalin the Despicable.
Turn 53, 1880 BC: Gandhi will trade Agriculture, Alphabet, Archery, Bronze Working, Masonry, Pottery
Turn 53, 1880 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Churchill, De Gaulle, Gandhi, Mao Zedong, Roosevelt, Stalin the Despicable
Turn 53, 1880 BC: De Gaulle adopts Slavery!

Turn 54, 1840 BC: The borders of Fish are about to expand.
Turn 54, 1840 BC: You are the worst enemy of Churchill, De Gaulle, Roosevelt, Gandhi, Mao Zedong, Stalin the Despicable.
Turn 54, 1840 BC: The borders of Fish are about to expand.
Turn 54, 1840 BC: Gandhi will trade Agriculture, Alphabet, Archery, Bronze Working, Masonry, Pottery
Turn 54, 1840 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Churchill, De Gaulle, Gandhi, Mao Zedong, Roosevelt, Stalin the Despicable
Turn 54, 1840 BC: The borders of Fish have expanded!
 
5 AIs know agriculture
3 AIs know pottery
5 AIs know sailing
3 AIs know masonry
all know BW

-----------------

Stalin just increased his power 12K. No score change. He built a grenadier. I had him for T9 warrior+TW = +6K. Not possible--he can't build warriors. :lol: Must have been MilAcad, I guess. What else? It appears he now has 1 gren and a closetful of nukes. When we find him, we should send a scout over to see if he gets his little behind nuked to Kingdom Come.
 
If we can establish when the AI is building the Oracle with such precision would it be viable to try for the CS slingshot. If we could pull it off it would be a big advantage, and we could always still abort to something like a currency sling if it looked like an AI might beat us. The lack of wonders built so far suggests it is not an implausible possibility, and based on previous SGOTMS it is unlikely the map creator would have set the save up in such a way as to make it unusually difficult.

The GL looks like it would be a massive benefit if we can get it, I would therefore be inclined to research sailing next.
 
LowtherCastle said:
Paris build now at 102h !?! Can't be GLH (no lh), so I figure it's either Moai :lol: or Taj. :lol::lol:
Click to expand...
Wouldn't GW be 105h according to your EP numbers? We'd find out next turn then.
 
mdy said:
If we can establish when the AI is building the Oracle with such precision would it be viable to try for the CS slingshot. If we could pull it off it would be a big advantage, and we could always still abort to something like a currency sling if it looked like an AI might beat us. The lack of wonders built so far suggests it is not an implausible possibility, and based on previous SGOTMS it is unlikely the map creator would have set the save up in such a way as to make it unusually difficult.

The GL looks like it would be a massive benefit if we can get it, I would therefore be inclined to research sailing next.
Click to expand...
I agree 200%. Forwards and backwards. :)
 
The CS sling significantly delays peace with the AI doesn't it? (and thus limits the value of the GLH)

I agree we should try for the GLH, but can we try to evaluate the costs and advantages of the CS sling?
 
babybluepants said:
Wouldn't GW be 105h according to your EP numbers? We'd find out next turn then.
Click to expand...

I recall reading that AI do NOT get any level-related hammer bonus when building wonders. So wonders cost AI the same hammers they cost us (at least world wonders). It should be easy enough to test...
 
Mitchum said:
CS sling plus Sailing and Masonry sounds like a tall order research wise. I think we need to make a choice: CS sling or GLH.
Click to expand...
I agree, which is one reason why I've been against CS sling for a while. The other reason is that we've already proved Currency should translate into Alphabet fairly quickly and lead to faster accumulation of positive diplo. Another would be the lack of other essential techs, such as Agri, Pottery and BW, until well after 1000 BC.

If we're considering CS, I'd like to run some deeper tests (1 AD), and do a fair evaluation of the end results of both, in terms of research, expansion and diplo.

Mitchum said:
I recall reading that AI do NOT get any level-related hammer bonus when building wonders. So wonders cost AI the same hammers they cost us (at least world wonders). It should be easy enough to test...
Click to expand...
IDK really, test it if you like. I had a deity game recently where an IND leader built Taj in literally 3-4t - so there must be some kind of cheat. I'm fairly certain DG's gotta be building either SH or GW. Those go before everything else in 99% of games. Don't see why this would be any different.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

SupremacyKing2
Why does civ franchise not seem to care about TSL Earth maps?
2 3 4
Replies
62
Views
3K
Lazy sweeper
Lazy sweeper
T
AI League 2.0
Replies
12
Views
580
Thrasybulos
T
O
Tool - Civ4 BTS Map Validator
Replies
0
Views
407
onkelm
O
GeneralZift
CCS: Alternate Victory Conditions
Replies
0
Views
258
GeneralZift
GeneralZift
Hawke9
My wish for civ VII: Advanced World Setup!
Replies
4
Views
729
Lonecat Nekophrodite
Lonecat Nekophrodite
Back
Top Bottom