SGOTM 12 - Plastic Ducks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Workers take many turns to travel.
4 turns for current worker from Moscow to deer. Since Rice city don't need 3 workers and it can produce more workers itself, where to send the extra workers? I think Nov is a good choice.
I don't know if there are more site further east. If the southern island is the site for 6th city, where's the worker come from. I don't think the one from galley is a good choice, I'd rather send it to the deer and draw one from capital, again, this saves the travel time.
True that capital probably does not have the citizen to work on the copper on time, however as I mentioned, there are too much to be done around capital and road to Paris
1. Road and Improvement of Copper (hidden benefit, we might need an Axeman to deal with the Chinese archer)
2. one to southern island in short time.
3. Prechop forest
4. road to Paris (need 2 workers and should be started quite early)
4 turns for current worker from Moscow to deer. Since Rice city don't need 3 workers and it can produce more workers itself, where to send the extra workers? I think Nov is a good choice.
I don't know if there are more site further east. If the southern island is the site for 6th city, where's the worker come from. I don't think the one from galley is a good choice, I'd rather send it to the deer and draw one from capital, again, this saves the travel time.
True that capital probably does not have the citizen to work on the copper on time, however as I mentioned, there are too much to be done around capital and road to Paris
1. Road and Improvement of Copper (hidden benefit, we might need an Axeman to deal with the Chinese archer)
2. one to southern island in short time.
3. Prechop forest
4. road to Paris (need 2 workers and should be started quite early)
Fair enough. I don't have that much time to test in any case so I can't really back my claims for after 5 turns.
I'll look what this gives a bit later and update the plan. Hopefully I can pass it on to you afterwards - you seem like the only one with some free time
I'll look what this gives a bit later and update the plan. Hopefully I can pass it on to you afterwards - you seem like the only one with some free time
I'm sorry to see only kossin+duckweed slugging this out right now
I would've liked to help out, but I have 2 RL issues that needs to be prioritized (namely running a business on my own in a "not so favorable" environment and having a newborn), so at the end of the day I'm just too burnt out right now to pick up any slack (haven't opened civ since september, and not planning to get Civ5).
Again, I'm really sorry.. and I still hope things normalize shortly so I can at least contribute some later. For now I'll have to remain in lurker-mode..
I would've liked to help out, but I have 2 RL issues that needs to be prioritized (namely running a business on my own in a "not so favorable" environment and having a newborn), so at the end of the day I'm just too burnt out right now to pick up any slack (haven't opened civ since september, and not planning to get Civ5).
Again, I'm really sorry.. and I still hope things normalize shortly so I can at least contribute some later. For now I'll have to remain in lurker-mode..
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Yes
I'm sorry I can't invest enough time into this SG to keep up with tests/micro on every set.
I have a lot less experience than you guys and complex things for you are even more complex for me. Not to mention that being only 3 in the thread isn't super motivating, even though I have immense respect for you (Kossin and Duckweed) as players and keep on learning plenty of things with this SG.
Hopefully, I'll have more time this week-end and the week after.
Sorry for letting you down.
BIC.
@ Bugg : good to see you. I hope you'll have some more free time any day now.
Keep binary research
Grab Monarchy from Gandhi if it becomes available for Currency
Revolt to HR+Slavery if Monarchy is acquired AND St-Pete settler is done. t100 seems like the best time for this.
t96
Unload worker on GH (island)
t97
Send missionary NW: this reveals the 3 tiles available above the 2 possible northern locations. If seafood, move worker accordingly (N or NE)
Otherwise Worker SF Grass hill
Galley back inside culture
New Moscow worker goes 2S on PH forest
Worker 1E of Moscow farm
Moscow starts worker
t98
Other worker 1E of Moscow goes west, to start road via Paris (start 3S of St-Pete)
Silver city starts granary
2 workers by Novgorod farm Rice
Missionary SE
New workboat hangs around if seafood found, otherwise sent south
t99
Missionary NE
(If settling on tundra St-Pete puts wb ahead of queue, settler is too early otherwise)
t100
Missionary keeps exploring island
St-Pete starts wb (maybe granary if we have acquired Monarchy) or Settler if a food spot is found on island.
Moscow starts granary (stay on horse for 1 turn, as Rice isn't wet yet)
New worker by Moscow move 2W of Moscow, start road to Paris
1 worker by Moscow to Copper for road
1 worker by Rostov 1NE, farm+cancel
Load settler on galley and move to whales
Hit enter, save and hand it off.
What changed:
-Moscow makes an extra worker before granary
-only use 1 worker to farm the rice as we don't need it too early
-2 workers sent west to start road to Paris (if the timing of these is off just spend 1/2 turn SF one tile)
What's missing: I would like to revisit the micro of Moscow's growth to size 7... right now I'm missing 1 food on t107-t108, I need to check how to fix it.
Grab Monarchy from Gandhi if it becomes available for Currency
Revolt to HR+Slavery if Monarchy is acquired AND St-Pete settler is done. t100 seems like the best time for this.
t96
Unload worker on GH (island)
t97
Send missionary NW: this reveals the 3 tiles available above the 2 possible northern locations. If seafood, move worker accordingly (N or NE)
Otherwise Worker SF Grass hill
Galley back inside culture
New Moscow worker goes 2S on PH forest
Worker 1E of Moscow farm
Moscow starts worker
t98
Other worker 1E of Moscow goes west, to start road via Paris (start 3S of St-Pete)
Silver city starts granary
2 workers by Novgorod farm Rice
Missionary SE
New workboat hangs around if seafood found, otherwise sent south
t99
Missionary NE
(If settling on tundra St-Pete puts wb ahead of queue, settler is too early otherwise)
t100
Missionary keeps exploring island
St-Pete starts wb (maybe granary if we have acquired Monarchy) or Settler if a food spot is found on island.
Moscow starts granary (stay on horse for 1 turn, as Rice isn't wet yet)
New worker by Moscow move 2W of Moscow, start road to Paris
1 worker by Moscow to Copper for road
1 worker by Rostov 1NE, farm+cancel
Load settler on galley and move to whales
Hit enter, save and hand it off.
What changed:
-Moscow makes an extra worker before granary
-only use 1 worker to farm the rice as we don't need it too early
-2 workers sent west to start road to Paris (if the timing of these is off just spend 1/2 turn SF one tile)
What's missing: I would like to revisit the micro of Moscow's growth to size 7... right now I'm missing 1 food on t107-t108, I need to check how to fix it.
Copper is improved before the city can work it at size 7 (2 gold, 2 cow, horse, copper, rice) at which point it only has +3 food surplus... 2 workers should be plenty enough to finish the rest at that time.
About south island: don't see much reason to prepare a worker before we know what's there. As I said in plan, we might get lucky with a second spot on north island.
There are also the northern workers that can be sent south at some point once the useful improvements are done.
In any case, we can always bum a worker from Moscow and make another in 2 turns.
About south island: don't see much reason to prepare a worker before we know what's there. As I said in plan, we might get lucky with a second spot on north island.
There are also the northern workers that can be sent south at some point once the useful improvements are done.
In any case, we can always bum a worker from Moscow and make another in 2 turns.
Okay... so we can't gain that 1 missing food to start working both Copper and Horse at t108 without swapping tiles.
Case 1: Irrigate Rice right away and start working it t100
t107 result: 20/32F, 120H
Case 2: Irrigate Rice 1 turn later, work horses 1 turn when building granary
t107 result: 25/32F, 127H (+5 food/turn)
Case 3: Irrigate Rice 2 turns later, work horses 2 turns instead
t107 result: 21/32F, 137H
Case 4: Use Case 2 + Give gold to St-Pete for 1 turn... if we time the gold swap on a 0% research turn we lose only 2 gold = floor[(7 work horses)*1.5) - 8] and 1 food loss in St-Pete (grass mine to gold mine)
Total: +1 food from Case 2, -1 food in St-Pete, -2 gold... 128H
After 2 more turns, you have as much hammers as Case 3
Keep in mind though that Case 4 will grow to size 8 1+ turn faster and so on... that 1 hammer is pretty small and will be recuperated pretty fast. For 2 gold... I say we do it that way.
Case 1: Irrigate Rice right away and start working it t100
t107 result: 20/32F, 120H
Case 2: Irrigate Rice 1 turn later, work horses 1 turn when building granary
t107 result: 25/32F, 127H (+5 food/turn)
Case 3: Irrigate Rice 2 turns later, work horses 2 turns instead
t107 result: 21/32F, 137H
Case 4: Use Case 2 + Give gold to St-Pete for 1 turn... if we time the gold swap on a 0% research turn we lose only 2 gold = floor[(7 work horses)*1.5) - 8] and 1 food loss in St-Pete (grass mine to gold mine)
Total: +1 food from Case 2, -1 food in St-Pete, -2 gold... 128H
After 2 more turns, you have as much hammers as Case 3
Keep in mind though that Case 4 will grow to size 8 1+ turn faster and so on... that 1 hammer is pretty small and will be recuperated pretty fast. For 2 gold... I say we do it that way.
Seeing as most of that micro is for after my set, I can play pretty much any time tonight.
Furthermore, seeing as Duckweed already said he agrees with plan... I'll wait a few hours and then finish my set then upload.
Any comments welcome in the meantime!
Furthermore, seeing as Duckweed already said he agrees with plan... I'll wait a few hours and then finish my set then upload.
Any comments welcome in the meantime!
Yes, go ahead. I have no problem if you can continue on a little bit if you have some time as I have not run any test recently and you're more familiar with the current stage of the game.
BTW, I also favor faster growth of capital. Commerce is 2nd to production in the middle and late stage of the game.
BTW, I also favor faster growth of capital. Commerce is 2nd to production in the middle and late stage of the game.
Done...
Some good some less.
Game log
Screenshots
Good: things went as planned.
Acquired Monarchy from Gandhi
Bad: Islands suck a whole lot!
We need troops or we need to make peace with Churchill/Mao.
I stopped 1 turn earlier than expected with a few units requiring orders (1 warrior, chariot, new worker).
Game uploaded and Paused.
Some good some less.
Game log
Spoiler :
Screenshots
Spoiler :
Good: things went as planned.
Acquired Monarchy from Gandhi
Bad: Islands suck a whole lot!
We need troops or we need to make peace with Churchill/Mao.
I stopped 1 turn earlier than expected with a few units requiring orders (1 warrior, chariot, new worker).
Game uploaded and Paused.
Good, at least there are plenty of island sites.
We probably aim to settle the southern clam spot as the 6th city, the clam resource also gives us one more health resource.
That Chinese archer is scouting, so it will probably turn away once it sees our culture border. However the English stack is a trouble, we might need to sigh a peace treaty then. Anyway, it's pretty easy with the MC<->Alpha trade from Gandhi.
So I am going to take the next set for now. BIC claimed to have time this weekend and next week. Our team is still pretty good.
We probably aim to settle the southern clam spot as the 6th city, the clam resource also gives us one more health resource.That Chinese archer is scouting, so it will probably turn away once it sees our culture border. However the English stack is a trouble, we might need to sigh a peace treaty then. Anyway, it's pretty easy with the MC<->Alpha trade from Gandhi.
So I am going to take the next set for now. BIC claimed to have time this weekend and next week. Our team is still pretty good.
Trading MC <-> Alpha has some risks... The Colossus for one and Gandhi grabbing a GE -> rushing a wonder we want.
Still, it's a better option than wasting hammers on Axes or spending 1 turn of research in Alphabet to trade Mathematics I guess.
Anyway, now is as good time as any to revolt to HR+Slavery, we'll lose commerce if we do it after the island city is settled.
EDIT: for one it avoids wasting 2 food in fur+deer+rice city
Still, it's a better option than wasting hammers on Axes or spending 1 turn of research in Alphabet to trade Mathematics I guess.
Anyway, now is as good time as any to revolt to HR+Slavery, we'll lose commerce if we do it after the island city is settled.
EDIT: for one it avoids wasting 2 food in fur+deer+rice city
Right, no reason to delay civic revolt.
SP is going to start Forge and Colossus very soon, with the whip and productive tiles there, Gandhi has little chance to beat us.
Do we want to give ToA a try? I think there should be some free turns in capital before Machinery.
The micro, especially the build in cities will largely depend on what the WB could find out northeast and southeast, I am going to try some tests tonight and then post a plan.
SP is going to start Forge and Colossus very soon, with the whip and productive tiles there, Gandhi has little chance to beat us.
Do we want to give ToA a try? I think there should be some free turns in capital before Machinery.
The micro, especially the build in cities will largely depend on what the WB could find out northeast and southeast, I am going to try some tests tonight and then post a plan.
Plan to Where Capital complete Forge and the galley with a worker and settler reach the southern clam island. Quite a few issues need to be determined at this point.
Military units move
Chariot -- goes to the western hill and dances around English stack
Warrior near French border -- slowly pulls back
Warrior near SP -- stays around the hills, watches for the chinese archer
Diplomacy
If necessary, I will trade Alpha from Gandhi and sign peace with Chinese and English. Check for resource trade availability from Gandhi.
City management and worker micro
T100 -- R 0%, Mos (worker to 2W), SP (Gra), Revolt to HR + Slavery
T101 -- CM to GH, Galley goes 1N, settler to GH, SP(Takes gold from Mos, Hill tile to Gold, 3S worker finish road 1st), Mos(2W worker goes 2W1S, worker on copper R), Nov(1S worker goes to 1E of Silver, another 1S worker goes 2N1E R&C, worker on Rice goes 1NE I&C) WB to 1N of the Southern Clam.
T102 -- R 100%, Mos (Takes Gold, Rice to Gold, worker goes 1S Chop & C), SP(Whip Gra, 4 citizens on Fish + Gold Hill + 2 Ivories, 2 workers road to Paris now belong to SP, worker on Rice R, 3S worker goes 1E Chop & C), Nov(1S worker goes 2N1E R &C, 1NW worker to Deer Camp), New City settled (Gra), Galley goes 1NE and fetch worker and goes 1SW.
T103 -- Mos(Take back Gold, Horse to Gold, 2 workers to copper SF), SP(WB, Mine to Lake, worker on Rice R, 3S1E worker goes to 3W2S PH), Nov (Worker R), Ros(worker to Deer Camp), Worker on galley to Deer, Galley to 1S of the Rice in Mos.
T104 -- R 0% on Machinery, Mos(Forge), SP(settler, Takes Gold from Mos, Lake tile to Gold, worker on Rice goes 1N2E Chop & C, worker on PH R, WB scouts NE), Nov(worker on Deer R)
T105 -- SP(Whip settler, 3 citizens on Fish + Ivory + Gold), worker on PH R, worker on Forest goes 3S3W), Ros(1 worker goes 1S R, 1 worker goes to 1S2W Fur)
T106 -- Mos(1worker M&C, 1worker M, takes Gold, 3F tile to Gold), SP(WB, Takes Cow, Ivory to Cow, worker on GH R, worker on PH goes to Rice SF&C, settler to Mos), Nov(Whip Gra, Takes western Deer, worker goes 1E to Deer SF), Ros(3rd citizen on 2F1C, worker on Fur R, 1NW worker goes 2S1W I)
T107 -- Mos(1 worker and settler to galley to 3N1E of Clam), SP(Take Cow, Ivory to Cow, worker on GH R, worker on Rice goes 3S2W), Nov(Galley needed for the northeast island, Take western Deer, worker on Deer SF), Ros(Whip Gra)
T108 -- R100%, Mos(Horse 3F tile to copper), SP(Forge, worker on Sugar R, worker on GH to Rice SF&C. WB to 3N1E of the Clam), Ros(Lib Forge)
T109 -- Mos(worker to PH chop), Ros(2 workers goes to western deer), SP(worker on Sugar R, worker on Rice goes 4S1W)
T110 -- Mos(ToA if still available, we are 6 turns to complete Machinery, barrack takes 2 turns, with 1 or 2 forest chop, we can finish in time), SP(worker on southern sugar R, worker on Northern sugar SF&C), Nov(worker camp), Ros(2 workers SF), Stop here as more map should be revealed by 2 scouting WBs and it's decision time on where to unload the worker and settler.
Military units move
Chariot -- goes to the western hill and dances around English stack
Warrior near French border -- slowly pulls back
Warrior near SP -- stays around the hills, watches for the chinese archer
Diplomacy
If necessary, I will trade Alpha from Gandhi and sign peace with Chinese and English. Check for resource trade availability from Gandhi.
City management and worker micro
T100 -- R 0%, Mos (worker to 2W), SP (Gra), Revolt to HR + Slavery
T101 -- CM to GH, Galley goes 1N, settler to GH, SP(Takes gold from Mos, Hill tile to Gold, 3S worker finish road 1st), Mos(2W worker goes 2W1S, worker on copper R), Nov(1S worker goes to 1E of Silver, another 1S worker goes 2N1E R&C, worker on Rice goes 1NE I&C) WB to 1N of the Southern Clam.
T102 -- R 100%, Mos (Takes Gold, Rice to Gold, worker goes 1S Chop & C), SP(Whip Gra, 4 citizens on Fish + Gold Hill + 2 Ivories, 2 workers road to Paris now belong to SP, worker on Rice R, 3S worker goes 1E Chop & C), Nov(1S worker goes 2N1E R &C, 1NW worker to Deer Camp), New City settled (Gra), Galley goes 1NE and fetch worker and goes 1SW.
T103 -- Mos(Take back Gold, Horse to Gold, 2 workers to copper SF), SP(WB, Mine to Lake, worker on Rice R, 3S1E worker goes to 3W2S PH), Nov (Worker R), Ros(worker to Deer Camp), Worker on galley to Deer, Galley to 1S of the Rice in Mos.
T104 -- R 0% on Machinery, Mos(Forge), SP(settler, Takes Gold from Mos, Lake tile to Gold, worker on Rice goes 1N2E Chop & C, worker on PH R, WB scouts NE), Nov(worker on Deer R)
T105 -- SP(Whip settler, 3 citizens on Fish + Ivory + Gold), worker on PH R, worker on Forest goes 3S3W), Ros(1 worker goes 1S R, 1 worker goes to 1S2W Fur)
T106 -- Mos(1worker M&C, 1worker M, takes Gold, 3F tile to Gold), SP(WB, Takes Cow, Ivory to Cow, worker on GH R, worker on PH goes to Rice SF&C, settler to Mos), Nov(Whip Gra, Takes western Deer, worker goes 1E to Deer SF), Ros(3rd citizen on 2F1C, worker on Fur R, 1NW worker goes 2S1W I)
T107 -- Mos(1 worker and settler to galley to 3N1E of Clam), SP(Take Cow, Ivory to Cow, worker on GH R, worker on Rice goes 3S2W), Nov(Galley needed for the northeast island, Take western Deer, worker on Deer SF), Ros(Whip Gra)
T108 -- R100%, Mos(Horse 3F tile to copper), SP(Forge, worker on Sugar R, worker on GH to Rice SF&C. WB to 3N1E of the Clam), Ros(Lib Forge)
T109 -- Mos(worker to PH chop), Ros(2 workers goes to western deer), SP(worker on Sugar R, worker on Rice goes 4S1W)
T110 -- Mos(ToA if still available, we are 6 turns to complete Machinery, barrack takes 2 turns, with 1 or 2 forest chop, we can finish in time), SP(worker on southern sugar R, worker on Northern sugar SF&C), Nov(worker camp), Ros(2 workers SF), Stop here as more map should be revealed by 2 scouting WBs and it's decision time on where to unload the worker and settler.
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