SGOTM 12 - Plastic Ducks

There are some issues I need to look into:

T102 - we are losing research by having SP work the gold while research is up and also losing food from granary in Moscow by having it grow too fast. Better keep research at 0% here if it works.

One I'm uncertain: growing Moscow 2 more food... unsure this will mean a later Forge but I guess yes (2F for 4H overflow)

I'll try to find something tomorrow

Right, I'm sacrificing commerce in favor of food and hammers in capital. The best time for SP taking over gold is when SP is producing granary and settler. Capital does not get the full bonus from granary, but the food gain from wet rice and horse is still there.

Keep research at 0% could be better, however what if the Chinese archer is heading toward us directly. We need to buy peace then.

I've found a better micro... will edit in shortly.

your totals
Moscow: size 6, 30/32F, 4 OF hammers in barracks
SP: size 4, 24/28F, 10H in Forge

Mine
Moscow: size 7, 16/34F, 3 OF hammers (but +4 base hammers and +1 commerce)
SP: size 4, 27/28F (a shame, going to try to find 1F somewhere), 12H in Forge

Other cities don't change

One issue: the actual game is a couple beakers behind the test game, maybe have to tweak something to finish MC on t104

t101
R 0%
SP - takes gold from Moscow and works it instead of lake (becomes stagnant = more food from granary)
Moscow - gold to rice

t102
R100%
SP whip - gold to GH mine
Moscow - takes gold, rice to gold

t103
SP - GH mine to lake
Moscow - no change

t104
R0% (or minimum to finish MC this turn without rounding issues)
SP - settler, takes gold from Moscow
Moscow - forge, gold to rice

t105
R0%
SP - whip settler, KEEP WORKING GOLD (lose 1 production instead of Ivory but gives 1 required food to Moscow)
Moscow - nada

t106
SP - wb, works cow+lake+fish
Moscow -

t107
Moscow 6th pop on farm

t108
Moscow 3F grass farm to copper

t110
Moscow grows to 7, Forge done

Need to try it.

There are something off in the 1st glance

T101 -- Lake to gold lets SP become starving -1F (2 unhealthy)
T102 -- you have to let 1 ivory tile to coastal tile to enable SP grow to size 5 next turn, or you did not?

T106 -- SP takes Cow in this turn will put Ros to work on the unimproved grassland tile.

T101-Yea, I've noticed that just now. Seems I clicked fortify on the wb and that creates a fishing net!

I'm looking into a solution now... in any case, the micro works so much better for Moscow... it gains 6 hammers + 2 gold or 3.5 beakers.

T106 - Well, it's not like that city is going to be starving any time soon with all that food.

EDIT: Rostov actually only loses 1 food from going from deer->2F1C because 1 extra turn of deer wastes 1 food in the granary

Revised additions:

T101 - lose the 1 food, it's gained back via the granary anyway

T102 - SP works coast as you said.
SP also needs to work 1 more turn of lake at some point

T110 results:
Moscow - same
SP - size 5 14/30F, 9H in Forge (quickly made up for with the extra pop)
Nov - 2 less hammers due to cow->deer
Ros - 1 less food due to deer->2F1Cgrass + 1 food from granary

Let me know if you want the exact revised micro for SP.

EDIT: iIrc I delayed the second wb 1 turn in favor of growth for SP

Looks good, will try it tonight.

Plan updated in post# 479. Original in white, updating in Bold.

SP in T101 still work on lake tile, better lake now than coastal later. Not sure SP taking Cow in T106 is a good idea as that's a 1F3H1C tile vs 2F1C tile, but benefiting SP might be better.

Moscow micro revised as your suggestion.

Also change the build in Ros from Lib to Forge as we are going to whip a lot in Ros, forge will give more.

Agree with Forge>Library
SP: Cow vs no cow - it doesn't make so much difference I guess. Empire-wide I guess no cow is better but city-wise SP is a better place so a possibly earlier forge would be better... doesn't change too much in the long run I think.

I think it looks good... we can either argue to try and find 1F or 1H here and there or move on ahead.

I propose the latter so play when you can

Log



The situation is pretty good now. Chinese archer turned away from turn 101 and have not shown up until now. The English stack also turned when the chariot moved 2 tile away.

T106 Made this trade as Gandhi almost completed Math, he is very likely aiming for Construction next. Forgot to do tile micro in Ros this turn, so 3rd citizen worked on 1F1H1C tile in the actual game.



T108 Trade route with Gandhi connected, we are able to do the resource trade.



T109 worker in Moscow went to the NW forest since if we want ToA, that forest without road should be chopped 1st.

The map is very good.

AI's cities -- Mao settled the Ivory/Gem spot and DG settled his 4th city. Notice that DG has swordman.



Southeast -- There are a continent east of the clam site (which turns out to be a great site with another fish). I think that we might want to settle the 6th city on the PH site on the continent to claim the Fish. A settler from Ros could settle the claim site as 7th city.



Notheast -- That island without fallout can be settled immediately, There could be more good site south.



Tech situation -- Will Gandhi be willing to trade Construction to us?

Looking very good

All those islands... GLH was a great call. Some are pretty good as well... guess we need to figure out the best way to settle all of them ASAP while still cranking out Wonders/troops

Lyons is settled on top of Iron... it has 3H city tile.

EDIT: any clue from where Gandhi connected to our network?

Probably through English border.

BIC have not shown up, he needs some time to get familiar with the game. Guess I am the only one could pull the game further.

Some issues

1. Site for future cities
6th city -- PH 2S1W of the Fish -- the current settler
7th city -- Grassland 1W of the Fish -- a settler from Moscow
8th city -- The Pig site (to be determined by surrounding area) -- a settler from Ros
9th city -- The northeast 2 clam island -- a settler from Ros
10th city -- The western Corn/Fish/Deer site -- a settler from Ros

Tech -- I'm not sure whether Gandhi is willing to trade Construction, if not in short time, then Construction next.

ToA? -- I'd like it, 3C + 5~10GPP + 1.5H +1 g for ~100 turns is good.

I'm gonna look into the game.

Can you play 10 more turns and then I'll take it another 20 unless someone else shows up?

Updating test game (with actual city names now).

ToA: probably pays for itself. Too bad we won't have representation though.

Construction: we can check in the test game if Gandhi would be willing to trade I think... question is kinda when would he do so.
And it also leaves the question of when we make a grab at TGL.

Updated test game:

re: Construction
Gandhi won't trade us until 3 AIs total know Construction, i.e. when Mao gets it also.

EDIT: any reasons for spot 7 1W of fish rather than 1SW? iIrc 1SW is plains tile... upkeep?

Some small reasons for the spot of 7th city.

1. closer to capital
2. Less overlapping with the Fish city
3. With enough food already, IMO plain tile is no worse than grassland tile.

Some more issues:

1. Do we want to sign peace with Roosevelt now? I'd say yes.
A. He is obvious far away and won't be our target for a long time.
B. He only need +3 fair trade to be cautious, which we can afford for now.
C. We could immediately sell some small techs for cash.

2. Related to 1st issue. Do we want to bring him to cautious right afterward? I'm not sure.

3. Do we want 7th and 8th city 1 turn earlier or ToA 2 turns earlier. I don't know.

4. Do we want Ros to whip the forge before the 9th settler for the 2 clam site, or the other way around?

1. Yup
2. Sell techs as he gets gold... No real urgency before he's willing to trade Construction
3. Uncertain as well. The far away cities cost quite a bit of gold so the gpt increase isn't huge.
4. Don't mind, it's 15 hammers only, the big decider should be when the galley is ready IMO.

Plan for next 10 turns -- decide to get ToA 1st, delay the Fish/clam city for 1 more turn so that 2 settlers can be fetched together

Military and scouting units move

Chariot -- stays alert around Chinese border, very vulnerable now.
Warrior near French border -- stays alert
Warrior on forest -- pulls back and stays alert on hill
Northeast WB -- scouts south
Southeast WB -- scouts for a couple turns and return to the Fish city for the fish net

Diplomacy -- watch for trade with Gandhi and Roosevelt, sign peace with other AIs when necessary.

Empire management

T110 -- Worker on Galley to grassland, Galley to 1NW of the PH, Mos(worker Chop), SP (Worker on Sugar to Rice SF&C, the other worker will continue on roading to French border, in the test game, it had to go back due to the approaching French units and went to the silk tile SF, guess that's the similar case in the actual game, so I won't mention the action of this worker again), Peace with Roosevelt (Alpha +?), WB near Moscow to NW of the PH.

T111 -- SP(worker on Rice goes 1N2E chop), Nov(worker camp), Worker on island SF, unload settler to PH, Galley goes to 3S of Mos

T112 -- Mos(2W worker goes 1E, NW worker Chop), Ros(Settler, Takes deer from Ros and on it), Nov(Take Cow from SP), SP(2F2C to Hill), New city settled(Gra, on 2H tile)

T113 -- Mos(1W worker SF, 1NW worker goes 2S Chop), SP(Whip Forge, Take Cow back, Ivory to Cow), Nov(Take Deer, AUTO OFF, 2 workers go 2S2W SF), Ros(Whip settler)

T114 -- Mos(Barrack, 1SE worker goes 1SW Chop), SP(TC), Ros(2 workers camp, settler to Copper), R0%

T115 -- Special(worker roading to Frech border was forced back this turn, went to GH SF&C, next turn it went to the silk tile and then SF), Mos(Settler), Nov(2 workers I), R100%

T116 -- Mos(2S worker goes 3N1W Chop), Ros(worker to 1S2W), SP(Lake to Hill)

T117 -- Mos(Maceman, 2 settlers to Galley to 1NW of Fish), Nov(Worker goes 2W), Ros(2 workers R), Yek(WB CFB, 2H to Fish), worker on Island goes 1S, R0% on Cons (If trade available, Aes)

T118 -- Mos(1W worker SF, 1NW worker goes 1S I), Nov(1S2W worker SF, 1S worker goes 1SW), Ros(Settler), Worker on island SF&C

T119 -- Mos(Maceman, worker I), SP(Lake to hill), Nov(2S1W worker SF), Ros(Forge), Settlers to grassland, Galley goes 1SE, Worker on island SF&C, R100%

T120 -- New city settled (WB CFB, worker to Galley), Mos(3F to 3F1C)

I think that's pretty much what I tried last night. Will look it over tonight just to double-check but I think this looks good.

Apart from the missing settler in save compared to plan...

I'd change the settler in Rostov from t118 to t119.
Whip on t119 means we go back to 2 pop, losing the deer for 1 turn. This is worse than working 1F1H1C tile for 1 turn. [You end up at t121 with 15/26F instead of 16/26, so it's 1F1H behind assuming commerce ~ extra upkeep]
Whip on t120 means settler gets out on t121, same as galley.
Settler goes to Novgorod, galley goes 2E... board next turn.

That's all I can think of... the rest is pretty optimized already. Good planning on the roads west.

I did not whip settler on T119, Ros switches to Forge on T119, so it grow to size 5 on T120, settler is on the queue. So it's pretty much the same. Will play in a couple hours.

Oh I see, sneaky.