SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

I get a 75% bonus on the hammers that go into the worker if built in moscow and 50% in Siberia on the settler

It really isn't that much different than getting 125% bonus on the settler in moscow and 0% in Siberia.

Hmmm... Siberia has 4 base hammers and Moscow has 23 base hammers (plus a lot of overflow on T110 and T112).

So, Siberia gets 50% bonus hammers on 4 hammers = 1 extra hammer when building a settler and no bonus hammers when building a worker (a loss of 1 hammer). Moscow gets 125% bonus on 23 base hammers = 28.75 bonus hammers when building a settler and 75% bonus on 23 base hammers = 17.25 bonus hammers when building a worker (a loss of 11.5 hammers).

Unless I'm over simplifying things, building a worker in Moscow rather than a second settler loses us 11.5*2 turns = 23 hammers...

I just checked the whip efficiency in Siberia. If we whip a settler on T112, there are 8 overflow hammers on T113. If we whip a worker, there are 20 overflow hammers on T113.

So, I suggest settler -> settler in Moscow to "gain" 23 hammers (actually 27 hammers because there was an 8 hammer overflow on T112 netting another 4 bonus hammers) and whiping a worker in Siberia for a "gain" of 12 overflow hammers (24 when building a library).

EDIT: x-post with LC
 
We'd whip those settlers. Whipping settlers with IMP and a big food surplus is far from inefficient. You obviously can't apply the Bureau bonus to everything. We need to prioritize Moscow builds, and I do think we should be settling these sites asap.

@LC,
Two settlers in Moscow and two in Siberia seems better to me, if for no other reason than to avoid cascading effects in bcool's MM again.
 
So maybe:

1. Mos: set-set-hagia; Sib: wkr-set-set
or
2. Mos: set-Hagia; Sib: set-wkr-set-set

I vote for option 1 based on my testing. Keep in mind that Siberia will have to build something between workers and settlers to grow back to 4 pops. We could put the 20 overflow hammers on T113 (if whipping a worker) into a settler, build library until pop 4, whip settler -> overflow into settler -> grow on library -> ...
 
I'm in agreement with both of you: Option 1 looks better and gets teh worker out sooner. Anyway, the Hagia build really should have a chop or two go into it and those workers around Moscow are pretty busy, so tw settlers in Moscow proably doesn't slow it down much, if any.
 
okay
wkr-set-set in siberia (most of the settler whipping happens here after my turn set I believe)
set-set-HS in Moscow (no spy)

consensus?
 
Okay I'm playing

Developments so far...
Traded for IW, Poly, Masonry (Iron revealed 2E of Moscow on Plains hill)
All AI except Rosey, Mao, Stalin know monotheism
Confu spread to Pigs
Iron near the wine as well to the West of Siberia as well

Continuing as planned ... (don't have workers to improve iron right away, will look for ways to make this happen...)
 
De Gaulle adopts organized religion T109
Gandhi starts researching Aesthetics

sold Monotheism for 40 gold to Mao

Pausing to discuss this...
run a great engineer in Moscow instead of working 3H forested plains hill while building settler??
Have we lost sight on great people production? Just going with mixed great people percentages? So getting a great engineer point or two would be worth it in Moscow?
 
Not sure if you're still waiting for a response, but I'm reluctant to put more gpps into MOscow right now. Without the Parthenon, I think we have enough time to pop some pure GSes, but it would be tight. If we start adding GE points, then I'm pretty sure it will be difficult to get 3 pure GSes.
 
Rosey is demanding Metal Casting, I assume no, right?

Edit: declared on De Gaulle, tricked combat 1 archer into attacking my axe on a plains hill :)
 
autologs

Spoiler :
Turn 107 (200 BC) [02-Nov-2010 19:29:30]
Catherine (Russia) and De Gaulle (France) have signed a peace treaty
Fish begins: Forge (20 turns)
Moscow begins: Forge (4 turns)
A Plantation was built near Moscow
St. Petersburg founded

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 107 (200 BC) [03-Nov-2010 17:08:05]
Research begun: Masonry (1 Turns)
Research begun: Polytheism (1 Turns)
Research begun: Monotheism (1 Turns)
Research begun: Aesthetics (4 Turns)
Research begun: Masonry (1 Turns)
Research begun: Polytheism (1 Turns)
Research begun: Monotheism (1 Turns)
Research begun: Aesthetics (4 Turns)

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 107 (200 BC) [03-Nov-2010 19:26:58]
Research begun: Polytheism (1 Turns)

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 107 (200 BC) [05-Nov-2010 17:14:11]
Research begun: Aesthetics (4 Turns)
Siberia begins: Worker (7 turns)
Siberia begins: Library (14 turns)
GP Farm begins: Granary (60 turns)
100% Research: 110 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -36 per turn, 93 in the bank

After End Turn:
Fish grows to size 5
Siberia grows to size 4
Confucianism has spread: Pigs

Turn 108 (175 BC) [05-Nov-2010 17:21:08]
Tech traded to Gandhi (India): Currency
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Iron Working
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Masonry
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Polytheism
Research begun: Monotheism (2 Turns)
A Camp was built near Siberia
A City Ruins near Marseilles was destroyed by Russian Chariot 2 (Moscow) (0 gold)
A Plantation was built near GP Farm
100% Research: 111 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -37 per turn, 57 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Fish
The whip was applied in Siberia
Siberia finishes: Granary
Pigs grows to size 4
Buddhism has spread: GP Farm

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: De Gaulle(France) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 109 (150 BC) [05-Nov-2010 17:36:39]
A Road near Marseilles was destroyed by Russian Chariot 2 (Moscow)
70% Research: 68 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
30% Gold: -18 per turn, 20 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Pigs
Tech research finished: Monotheism
Moscow grows to size 9
Moscow finishes: Forge
Fish grows to size 6
Pigs finishes: Granary

Turn 110 (125 BC) [05-Nov-2010 17:45:19]
Tech traded to Mao Zedong (China): Monotheism
Research begun: Aesthetics (3 Turns)
Moscow begins: Settler (2 turns)
A Farm was built near Pigs
A Mine was built near Fish
Pigs begins: Worker (6 turns)

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 110 (125 BC) [05-Nov-2010 18:53:28]
100% Research: 113 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -37 per turn, 42 in the bank

After End Turn:
Siberia grows to size 4
GP Farm's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Mao Zedong(China) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

Turn 111 (100 BC) [05-Nov-2010 18:53:28]
Siberia begins: Worker (6 turns)
Pigs begins: Library (45 turns)
Catherine (Russia) declares war on De Gaulle (France)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 37 per turn, 5 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Pigs
Moscow finishes: Settler
Fish grows to size 7

Turn 112 (75 BC) [05-Nov-2010 19:05:17]
Moscow begins: Settler (2 turns)
100% Research: 112 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -41 per turn, 42 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Siberia
Tech research finished: Aesthetics
Siberia finishes: Worker
Pigs grows to size 3

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Russian territory at GP Farm, Axeman 2 (Moscow) (3.60/5) defeats French Archer (Prob Victory: 98.5%)

Turn 113 (50 BC) [05-Nov-2010 19:10:50]
Diplomacy (Help Request): Roosevelt (America) asks Catherine (Russia) for Metal Casting; Catherine REFUSES.
Tech traded to Roosevelt (America): Polytheism
Research begun: Literature (2 Turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 24 per turn, 31 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Settler
Pigs grows to size 4

Turn 114 (25 BC) [05-Nov-2010 19:29:14]
A Mine was built near Pigs




Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 200 BC to 25 BC:

Turn 107, 200 BC: You have made peace with De Gaulle!
Turn 107, 200 BC: St. Petersburg has been founded.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Confucianism has spread in Pigs.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Xi Ling Shi (Great Scientist) has been born in Shanghai (Mao Zedong)!

Turn 108, 175 BC: You have discovered Iron Working!
Turn 108, 175 BC: You have discovered Masonry!
Turn 108, 175 BC: You have discovered Polytheism!
Turn 108, 175 BC: You have constructed a Granary in Siberia. Work has now begun on a Worker.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Buddhism has spread in GP Farm.
Turn 108, 175 BC: De Gaulle adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 109, 150 BC: You have discovered Monotheism!

Turn 110, 125 BC: The borders of GP Farm have expanded!
Turn 110, 125 BC: Mao Zedong adopts Hereditary Rule!

Turn 111, 100 BC: You have declared war on De Gaulle!
Turn 111, 100 BC: Leone Alberti (Great Spy) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 112, 75 BC: The enemy has been spotted near GP Farm!
Turn 112, 75 BC: Fish has grown to size 7.
Turn 112, 75 BC: Fish has become unhealthy.
Turn 112, 75 BC: Siberia can hurry Worker for 2? with 14? overflow and +1? for 16 turns.
Turn 112, 75 BC: Pigs will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 112, 75 BC: You have discovered Aesthetics!
Turn 112, 75 BC: You have trained a Worker in Siberia. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 112, 75 BC: Churchill's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 112, 75 BC: De Gaulle's Archer (3.30) vs Catherine's Axeman 2 (Moscow) (6.25)
Turn 112, 75 BC: Combat Odds: 1.5%
Turn 112, 75 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 112, 75 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 112, 75 BC: Catherine's Axeman 2 (Moscow) is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 112, 75 BC: De Gaulle's Archer is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 112, 75 BC: De Gaulle's Archer is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 112, 75 BC: De Gaulle's Archer is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 112, 75 BC: Catherine's Axeman 2 (Moscow) is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 112, 75 BC: De Gaulle's Archer is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 112, 75 BC: Catherine's Axeman 2 (Moscow) has defeated De Gaulle's Archer!
Turn 112, 75 BC: While defending, your Axeman 2 (Moscow) has killed a French Archer!

Turn 113, 50 BC: Moscow has become healthy.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Moscow can hurry Settler for 1? with 39? overflow and +1? for 10 turns.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Pigs has grown to size 3.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Pigs will grow to size 4 on the next turn.

Turn 114, 25 BC: Siberia can hurry Library for 1? with 20? overflow and +1? for 24 turns.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Pigs has grown to size 4.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Pigs can hurry Library for 2? with 20? overflow and +1? for 17 turns.
Turn 114, 25 BC: De Gaulle has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 114, 25 BC: De Gaulle is willing to negotiate.
Turn 114, 25 BC: De Gaulle will trade Archery
Turn 114, 25 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: De Gaulle
Turn 114, 25 BC: Siberia will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Pigs will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
 
Only minor changes to the PPP

I'll update the test game soon...

recommended actions this turn
whip forge in Fish
trade aesthetics to Gandhi for 30 gold (he has 1 turn left in his research)
revolt to confu
 
DeG production sabotage values 200BC/175/150/125/100/75/50
Paris 172/180/180/-/62/55/110
Orleans -/173/173/223/-/140/190
Rheims 68/-/85/102/119/136/153
Tours 198/243/243/36/216/234/261
Marseilles -/107/107/115/124/132

Gold values 200BC -25 BC
Churchill 0/0/10/0/0/0/0/10
DeG 50/0/0/0/10/40/40/50
Rosey 0/30/40/0/0/0/30*/10
Gandhi 20/0/20/30/30/30/30/30
Mao 0/30/30/40*/0/0/10/20
Stalin 10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10

traded for 40 gold from Mao for monotheism and traded for 30gold from Rosey for Poly
 
crud... I just realized I never gifted Rosey techs to get some bonuses for open borders :(
might want to use Metal Casting soon for this and maybe get the failure gold on Colossus like LC suggested a while back
 
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