SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

babybluepants · Nov 21, 2010

My intent is to capture Orleans as cheaply as possible, sign a CF and gear up for China. So long as DG keeps a sizable stack in Marseilles, the city won't be in danger. Churchill doesn't have significant forces.

My inclination is to leave 1 mace in Paris, send the southern mace and 1-2 swords to Orleans, and do a CR2 cat charge. I can wait for the promo until I'm there and have a better idea of the situation, however. Seriously doubt DG would attempt a counter in the Rheims area, btw. He didn't even move last war. I just wanted to check with you guys, 'cause I really don't wanna lose a city here.

Check on the 3h in Siberia, LC.

Edit: I might sleep on this... Give you guys a chance to respond, too.

LowtherCastle · Nov 22, 2010

Okay, since Shanghai has no galley or trireme and I saw none earlier, I'd chance it and in Paris 2pop granary - 2pop galley. That way Paris will grow back much faster and can continue 2popping sea vessels as long as we need them. Plus, if we're luckier, Orelans will keep both a lh and granary, and we can 2pop a quick trireme there instead.

But there's another problem: Moving our galleys past Lyons! :eek:

We'll need forts where we will have our culture (Marseilles and Lyons will own their ALL of their tiles till we capture them). Those four workers you have there will come in handy for that. I'd suggest that next turn they pre-build a fort (that we might never finish...) where they are for 1t only. Then they move SW-W to our stack at Orleans-NE, where they can scrub for a turn while we're bashing down his walls. The following turn we should capture Orleans and they can start building one of the forts.

Later on, we can build one or two forts in the Shanghai/Beijing area to let our vessels through to capture Guangzhou and settle that sugar/rice/ivory if no one else wants it...

If you're going ahead with the cat-CRII attack, then you can probably safely leave a mace in Paris. The 8XP mace will have to attack one of the slightly damaged axes to gain 2XP, I think. The swords will only give 1XP most likely and the half-dead archer also.

Those workers at Fish should all farm one more tile asap (cancel current scrub on tile without irrigation) so we can alternate between 12base-h and all food. We're wasting a bonus hammer at 9hpt.

bbp, if you still have your last couple of autosaves, check New York's Sab Prod numbers. Would be useful to know if he's building a stone-bonus wonder (Moai, Chichen Itsa) or not. The sabotage hammer factor is about 12X now. I can't tell from this save because since the T147 save he poprushed a harbor.

LowtherCastle · Nov 22, 2010

Shanghai Attack Plans

Now we can and should plan this attack.

T151 4 wkrs build fort at Paris-S (1t only)
T152 4wkrs join SoD at Orl-NE to scrub
T154 Orleans falls, workers begin forting at Orl-NE-E !!! (need to finish the Orl-NE-E and Paris-S forts by T157, the Orl-NW fort on T158)
T157 Paris-S + Orl-NE-E forts done. Our three galleys start moving through.
T158 Orl-NE fort done.
T159 Our three galleys, loaded with 2 maces and 4 accuracy cats arrive at Orl-2NW
T160 DoW Mao, galleys move NW-W
T161 2mace4cats land at Shanghai NW; Other SoD moves to Shanghai 2SE;
etc.

To enable this, imo we need a bunch more cats. Two more accuracy cats from Fish and 4 more from elsewhere. Careful analysis shows that we can get 1 from Siberia (2pop), 1 from Moscow (before 10XP for HE), 1 from GP Farm (2pop), and 1 from Pigs (2pop). The third galley comes from Paris (2pop).

If we all agree, what this means for the rest of your turnset, bbp:

Siberia:
T151: switch build to cat @3hpt
T152: 2pop cat
T153: move cat S-SW
T154: cat boards galley, which moves to Orleans Canal

Moscow:
T153: build cat
T154: cat moves to board Siberian galley at Galley City 2W on T156 (engineering will be complete on T156)

Fish:
T151: MM to complete cat in 1t
T152: build cat, MM for 1pop or 2pop
T153: poprush cat
T154: second cat moves to board second galley on T155

GP Farm:
T153: (after Miss OF goes into NE or something) build cat
T154: poprush cat
T155: moves by land to SoD near Orleans

Pigs:
T154: (after completing NE) build cat
T155: poprush cat, to join SoD near Orleans

Paris:
T153: build granary
T154: 2pop granary
T155: buld galley
T156: 2pop galley
T157: galley moves S-SW through canal

Note: We could make just 2 forts, directly between Paris and Orleans, if we want to sacrifice the Paris hill mine.

Other details:
Research Engineering at 100% when Oxford is complete for +1 road movement

LowtherCastle · Nov 22, 2010

bcool said:
Anyone have any idea why Calcutta is on the top 5 cities page?

If you look at Gandhi's culture graph, he recently culture bombed some city. Probably Calcutta.

babybluepants · Nov 22, 2010

LowtherCastle said:
bbp, if you still have your last couple of autosaves, check New York's Sab Prod numbers. Would be useful to know if he's building a stone-bonus wonder (Moai, Chichen Itsa) or not. The sabotage hammer factor is about 12X now. I can't tell from this save because since the T147 save he poprushed a harbor.

T+0
378 2305 183h +41h
T-1
374 1772 142h +24h
T-2
369 1451 118h

LowtherCastle · Nov 22, 2010

Guess it must be a stone wonder (*2.75). He'd need 23 base hammers for 40h if it were a non-stone wonder (*1.75). Might as well keep an eye on it anyway.

babybluepants · Nov 22, 2010

It is Notre Dame.

I played just the 1t, to see what happens with the Moscow GP:

Spoiler :

I think I should hand off now, since this goes past what I've tested in preparation and we need to plan for the China war from now on. bcool's up, as Mitchum asked for a swap.

Note: one mace from Paris is trailing to protect the workers. The 2 swords are actually 1t late getting there, but could help mop up.

Spoiler :

Edit: BTW, on T152 we are exactly 1 point ahead of the Ducks in score.

babybluepants · Nov 22, 2010

ROSTER UPDATE

bcool Played T40-48 T96-115 UP
Mitchum Played T0-27 T90-96 ON DECK
LowtherCastle Played T48-57 T115-135
mdy Played T57-75 T135-140
babybluepants Played T27-40 T75-90 T140-152 JUST PLAYED
shyuhe M.I.A.
ZPV M.I.A.
mystyfly M.I.A.
Silu lurking
Soirana erasing

babybluepants · Nov 22, 2010

@LC,
I messed up your plan for Shanghai...

It's a good thing I stopped here. Don't like to play past PPP like this, or break up my set too much... I guess we're only 1t behind on it, though.

babybluepants · Nov 22, 2010

Orleans Capture

Don't see how it could happen on T154. He has 8 defenders and we could only have 5 maces by then. My plan was:
T154 Bombard with all 3 cats
T155 Finish bombardment as needed > suicide CR2 > kill top 6 defenders with 6 maces (southern one can join by then)
T156 Two swords also arrive, and we can just mop up with healthiest units

We shouldn't be risking any maces. We're low on troops and they're all nicely promoted.

bcool · Nov 22, 2010

Whoot!

bbp! Apparently the GP gods are with us.

Are there any cities that have hidden hammers into any wonders I should know about?

Got the save, will try to get a PPP tonight. I have plans tomorrow evening but then I don't have to work on Wednesday so I might stay up late and would be able to respond to feedback to prepare to play Wednesday.

babybluepants · Nov 22, 2010

bcool said:
Are there any cities that have hidden hammers into any wonders I should know about?

I'm not even sure I checked every city over the last two turns. Only noted New York as exceeding 100h before that. I'll keep all the saves, if we needed to back check anything.

bcool · Nov 22, 2010

bbp I meant our cities

babybluepants · Nov 22, 2010

IIRC, only Moai in the island cities and Parthenon in Siberia. That should be it. Be good to keep track of that from here.

LowtherCastle · Nov 22, 2010

babybluepants said:
Great Engineer! ::

I'll drink to that! :beer:

Kind of the opposite of last SG, isn't it?

babybluepants said:
It is Notre Dame.

NY built Moai. Roosy just got Engineering, I think.

babybluepants · Nov 22, 2010

nvm, he must have burnt his GE (born last turn) on Notre Dame then.

Mitchum · Nov 22, 2010

Nice turnset, bbp!! Getting that GE is huge. :cool:

Some random thoughts:

Now we can wonder spam in Moscow if we want. We'll need a ton of mongrel great people and Moscow will likely be able to produce most of them if we want.

If we wait a turn or two, Orleans may send out its settler party making it that much easier to capture.

We do need to start thinking about getting a GM for Sid's Sushi, especially if Pigs is going to spit out the next two or three GPs (GSs hopefully). Getting a GM from Fish probably makes the most sense since it already has 100% GM odds with the Colossus. In the near future, we could build a market there and start working a merchant specialist or two. We could use the gold anyway and the Representation beakers will be nice too.

Have we agreed on where to put Moai yet?

When running the slider at 100%, it would be nice if Moscow could work both gold resources. The Burea and Oxford bonus on the second gold gives us an extra 4 (Burea bonus) * 2.5 + 8 * 1.0 (Oxford bonus) = 18 :science:

/turn. Maybe the engineer specialist could go to the gold mine right away, giving us an extra 4 (burea bonus) * 1.25 + 8 * 0.25 (market bonus) = 7 :gold:

/turn when the slider is at 0% science.

Should the overflow in GP Farm go into MoM or the Parthenon. Probably the Parthenon because I assume this will be the next wonder built in Moscow since we can immediately benefit from it.

Be careful. Sid likes to assign engineer specialists when cities grow (like in Bahamas). Now that we have our GE, I assume that if we do run specialists we should be working scientists or merchants only from now on.

The time to pop the granary in Bananas is coming soon...

I think Paris should be our Wall Street city with the Buddhist shrine + Mining Inc HQ + Sid's Sushi HQ.

Roosevelt is WHEOOHRN. Do you think he's going after Mao?

Now that Mao is firmly Confucian, the cost of stealing Communism just went up unless we switch to Buddhism or we get him to change. BTW, thanks Mao for spreading our religion to our soon-to-be cities.

@LC

Didn't you buy Gandhi's map? I meant to ask this sooner, but how can he have 2 cities that we don't see on the map? When I created the test save, which was right after your turnset, there were still two hidden cities and this was right after you bought his map... :confused:

@bbp
Will you be able to advance the test save?

babybluepants · Nov 22, 2010

Shanghai plan:
Nicely worked out, but it seems kind of crazy to me to be building up unpromoted catapults for a new war against a PRO AI in the few turns leading up to trebs and a 100hpt HE. Can we think through some other options? Not necessarily saying we won't follow a version of the proposed plan, just wondering what's best.

Mitchum said:
Roosevelt is WHEOOHRN. Do you think he's going after Mao?

Forgot to mention this in my report. I would assume it's Mao. Roosevelt can do mace+treb now, so it might be a decent war effort.

Mitchum said:
@bbp
Will you be able to advance the test save?

Nope. I'll see what I can do about it tonight.

Mitchum said:
We do need to start thinking about getting a GM for Sid's Sushi, especially if Pigs is going to spit out the next two or three GPs (GSs hopefully).

Economics?

Mitchum said:
Be careful. Sid likes to assign engineer specialists when cities grow (like in Bahamas). Now that we have our GE, I assume that if we do run specialists we should be working scientists or merchants only from now on.

Hugely frustrating right now, esp. as we have multiple cities whipping down every turn at 10 or more fpt.

Mitchum said:
Now that Mao is firmly Confucian, the cost of stealing Communism just went up unless we switch to Buddhism or we get him to change.

We get him to change, by capturing his Confu cities?

Yes, btw, Moscow should take over the gold now and stop the Eng.

LowtherCastle · Nov 22, 2010

Guys, we're in serious trouble. Gandhi has researched Paper.

LowtherCastle · Nov 22, 2010

Note: Never, but never, promote a catapult to Barrage I-Accuracy. By the numbers, it's almost useless. CR I-Accuracy is vastly more useful in an attack.

(Probably won't ever matter that we have two cats with Barrage I, because we won't ever have to attack with them in all likelihood. But for the future...)

SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

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