FA Discussion: Shall We Join Alliances Against Germany?

People of Fanatikos,

I apologize for stealing the thunder of our FA Ministry, but the matter we find before us needs immediate attention. First a little bit of background.

Some time during the latest game session, we were approached by France to join their part of the alliance against Germany. Due to the prevailing wisdom of standing FA orders as well as the fact that they only offered Right of Passage agreement, we politely declined.

Not too long after, our embassy with France was opened. And during our tour of Paris, we were able to gain intelligence of advanced military training in the region --- something the French diplomat regarded as Swordsmen.

Impressed with what we saw, we left Paris aware of our military shortcomings but still felt sound in our relations with France.

Until today.



As you can see, French Swordsmen now stand at the door of Augean Stables, and while we are well defended by a small battalion of Hoplites I still have major concerns for the town's safety. Not to mention the safety of our workers unwittingly laboring to the south.

Our bluff called, I contacted the French Consulate immediately and found that we may join their alliance with no strings attached. But Minister Icmancin went to Rome and discovered this:




Rome is willing to give all the gold it has for us to join their alliance against our world's most powerful nation, Germany! This development is significant and should be strongly considered for 3 reasons:

• Signing an alliance with France should immediately neutralize their threat of our borders.

• We will not have to offer tech to Rome to secure all of their gold.

• We need to start discussing capture of a German city before they are vanquished from the world forever.

That's my pitch, Fanatikos. Please let me know what you think of this plan.


Respectfully,

Donovan Zoi
President of Fanatikos

I definitely think we should grab a slice of Germany before this war is done. I believe I said a while back that Germany would lose the war and France would be new power to watch out for. This was my case for GL in Augean Stables. Looks like you should've listened to me. anyway, go for the deal with Rome, since it will cost us nothing and they will pay us gold!! I'm not sure about the France one, maybe we could extort if we wait...of course if we wait, they might attack us... decisions, decisions.

i's have to say that my immediate response is that we should sign both deals, the roman one because as greekguy said it will cost us nothing and the french deal because we really don't want to risk an invasion at this point. just the 2 cents of a reporter/retired judiciary official

Okay, well what's most attractive is the gold involved in the deal at the moment, the prospect of land is almost nohting becasue I'm posative that the AI will take up whatever land we choose to attack and destroy.

But perhaps even more vital in the long run at least for our nation, is the Combat experience that can be gained by this little war with Germany. IF we do go to war, we'll want to attack with the units that may be apart of the RDF, creating more experience for them and making them stronger for less money. The only way to get a strong military in a 5CC is to ahve an advanced and experienced military, the experience can come now from this war which should make up a small portion of the technology race that we are currently losing at the moment. The advantages are very nice and fine but oone problem at the moment,

LOGISTICS, the Logistics of our military at the moment is VERY small and consists of no specialized Divisions at all...nothing, we have what two arriors now and 5 Hoplites, (This Information is all from the Information Office from 1375 BC) This is NOT the Army to Fight a War with people, if we went to war right now and sent our Men into combat, it would weaken us instead of strengthen us. We need more units and as soon as the RDF plan if ratifyed that needs to be put in motion.

I hate to say it, but, at the moment war is not achiveable. Although we can sign the Alliance defnd our borders, and keep the money.

-Ranger99-

We don't have the iron connected yet, AND... if we're attacked, then it triggers a despotic golden age.

Ranger99 said:

LOGISTICS, the Logistics of our military at the moment is VERY small and consists of no specialized Divisions at all...nothing, we have what two arriors now and 5 Hoplites, (This Information is all from the Information Office from 1375 BC) This is NOT the Army to Fight a War with people, if we went to war right now and sent our Men into combat, it would weaken us instead of strengthen us. We need more units and as soon as the RDF plan if ratifyed that needs to be put in motion.

I hate to say it, but, at the moment war is not achiveable. Although we can sign the Alliance defnd our borders, and keep the money.

-Ranger99-

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You hit the nail on the head, Ranger99. If anything, this alliance deal is a wake-up call for our entire nation that we now need to put more funds into our outdated military.

The good thing about this proposal is that it eliminates threats from two fronts, allowing us to concentrate on the third. Perhaps we can hold off on the RDF during these 20-turn alliances and focus all of our energy on Germany. Or to defend against possible treachery, draft a smaller RDF for the time being.

I really do not want to turn this into a military thread just yet, so do you think you can open one and post a link here? We need to discuss the military aspects of these alliances as well.

Chieftess said:

We don't have the iron connected yet, AND... if we're attacked, then it triggers a despotic golden age.

Click to expand...

So are you saying you are against the alliance idea? I need a bit more detail from your post.

We risk a despotic Golden Age if we are attacked at Augean Stables in two turns, so that is a more immediate concern. Not that I think a despotic GA would be so bad, as it would likely help us discover Republic even more quickly.

Think of this as a cold war against Germany for starters. But a cold war that morphs into a real war as we become more and more prepared for it. We must remember that we need to beat the Romans and the French to (most likely) Berlin so that Governor RegentMan will finally have some work to do.

Will do sir! *Salutes crisply* You are compltley right as well, these alliances are political econmical and a military factor.

Sadly though my specialty lies in the Military Aspect of it, so that thread will be created ASAP.

My opinions on the ohter side of the operation though is to probably take the alliance, as the gold is a serious sum, 125/25=5 That's 5 Barbarian Camps that we'd have to assault take and destroy to equal the amount of gold we'd take by simply signing this deal. So economically it's compltley safe and very good option

POlitically, we have most of the World arrayed agaisnt geramny, they won't be much of a power after the nations of the World are done with it, so as well as economically, it's alos politically safe.

Just my 2 cents though....

-Ranger99-

Ranger99 said:

My opinions on the ohter side of the operation though is to probably take the alliance, as the gold is a serious sum, 125/25=5 That's 5 Barbarian Camps that we'd have to assault take and destroy to equal the amount of gold we'd take by simply signing this deal. So economically it's compltley safe and very good option.

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Now that you mention the 125 gold, I found another benefit as well.

If we want to research Republic at 100% over the next 23 turns, we will have to run at a -5gpt deficit to do so. This FA deal will be enough to pay for that deficit in full, with 10 gold to spare.

Very Nice, this 125 Gold is a VERY attractive option as you say, I had forgotten about that, (Well not really Technology Dept. really isn't my place so I never even knoew about it in the first palce so...)

BUt that WILL grant us the Republic rather early, with leftover gold. So taking that into account Economlically, POlitically AND technology wise this deal is beneficial to us.

The only problem as I stated before is the Military Aspects of it.

-Ranger99-

Well, I suggest we wage war after two turnchats, the 23 turns will become possibly 15-16 turns, when Priapos grows and gets library. Maybe even less.
I think we can prepare a government change to republic, declare war on germany with this alliance in 10 turns time. We should run one more turnchat not declaring war.
See how the Priaposian library shapes up the research rate.

Upon knowing the exact time of republic, we should declare war at revolution day, and
send all units for a german city then. It will take us 15 turns to build up needed units to take one German city, either south or east. In the meantime, sell techs to romans and french to prepare them for signing the alliance and keep peace. a techdeal now will keep us safe until Republic is done, then the alliance kicks in after that.

to be honest, this is the only way to do it, and trigger a golden age early into
Republic for all 20 turns.

If we sign a allaince with the french would it stop them anyway if there decided to invade? If there triggered to attack i dont think i will, it will just cause a war against both and we will lose the game. They might just be moving through the area. they done this when i done the turnchat and we got freaked out, but they just moved on.

If there not going to attack, i am against the war. right now we are slowly bulding our nation and military. If we Do fight a war against germany any offense we launch will be token anyway. But we will risk our nation. On the other hand getting the other 3 nations genorus might be worth the small risk.

If one of our Hoplites is attacked and wins it will start our Golden Age. Do we want a Golden Age in Despotism? We need to wait until we change Governments. There are other ways to get gold.

Like the own Bismarck said, "A little caution outflanks a large cavalry". We cannot sign such an agreement having in mind only the gold the Romans will offer. We are currently too weak and poor to afford a war with Germany. We must wait until we are strong, build a large enough military force and destroy the germans in a decisive attack. This will take time, but we currently can't do anything except ruining ourselves for 20 turns with an attrition war that can cost more than we have planned, including Civantonia, if the RNG gods are furious.

Sincerely,

Civlord

Gold is good for the Tn'T Minister to hear..

While I am not good at wars, this is a great idea....

AND...if we get a Depostic Golden Age...think of this way...better than a Anarchy Golden Age...

Plus if we do wage war, may I suggest a defensive war...we can still play offfensive (sounds like a basketball games....) just to get a weak city or too....

So, what you think???

- Tn'T TP

What are our relative strengths vs the other nations on our continent? Might the French be after our horses, and will they stop if we have the only source available to them? Or might this swordsman be headed for the German town to our south, by the only direct route available, and we're worried about nothing?

Let's make sure we discuss and make this decision based on all pertinent information please.

DaveShack said:

What are our relative strengths vs the other nations on our continent? Might the French be after our horses, and will they stop if we have the only source available to them? Or might this swordsman be headed for the German town to our south, by the only direct route available, and we're worried about nothing?

Let's make sure we discuss and make this decision based on all pertinent information please.

Click to expand...

We are weaker than France and Rome, and have average relative strength to Germany.

We don't know the intention of the French Swordsman, but the fact is that they have them and we don't. If a skirmish starts with France, how long before Rome enters he picture?

My alliance plan neutralizes both these threats during our time of military weakness. All we have to do is worry about our equals, Germany.

The time may have come to pick sides, people. Which side are we going to be on?

I don't know, DZ. We must be cautious now, as the germans can launch a counter-ofensive and destroy the roman and french forces attacking them. In this case, if we declare war on them, we would have to deal with Germany alone for a considerable time until roman reinforcements come. That's what I am worried about.

I am in favor of neutriality, and i find it cruel to declare war on germany because France threatens to invade. I dont think a MA with france will stop them attacking if they have all ready decided to*, and amagin our tiny military fighting a war on two fronts. If we are going to get attacked by France and if a anti-prussian Military Allaince will stop them, then we have to get it done before we next press enter, or france will invade anyway. Also we should look at diplomatic option if We do enter the war against france, we will want to instantly bring rome germany and persia into the fray, and prepare for a war of attrition on our western front.



*someone could test it, from my experince a MA will stop them attacking you, but if they are already at war with germany it might not. A MA allaince against rome would but i don't think thats a good idea ever.

Civlord said:

I don't know, DZ. We must be cautious now, as the germans can launch a counter-ofensive and destroy the roman and french forces attacking them. In this case, if we declare war on them, we would have to deal with Germany alone for a considerable time until roman reinforcements come. That's what I am worried about.

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And yet the Germans have lost two cities. Rome already has a Legionary encroaching on Berlin from the north.

From what I can see, Germany currently has Horses but no Iron. If we get some Horses up and running to send to Civantonia (along with a sentry to watch the east from a mountain, we should be able to anticipate any interlopers. From there, it just becomes a game of chess.