Warlords...The Great Wall is horrible!

vra379971 · Jul 27, 2006

Well, I liked the Great Wall in Civ 3, and I thought the perimeter Def would be more useful and realistic this game...but...gosh..it's near useless! I suppose the Great General pct% upgrade is nice...but a wall is hardly a candidate for upgrading tactics.

Barbs are generally never a problem for me, and if they reach your core, you need to send more defensive scouts out.

Here's how I think the Wall needs to be upgraded to become more realistic and useful. (So if someone could pass this along to Fixaris for consideration..)

Downgrade the GG Pct. 50% mabye.
Make it take three turns for barbs to pass through the wall.
Make anyone (friend OR foe) on the INSIDE of the Wall have both a road bonus AND a Defensive bonus. Then, the wall would become of tactical use.

Cereal Box · Jul 27, 2006

It seems like the Great Wall would be a waste of resources in most games. However, if you've got raging barbarians on, or there's a big unsettled area to one of your sides it's a really good thing to have.

Goodgimp · Jul 27, 2006

I play my games on Huge maps. There are times when I'm stuck in an area far away from other civs, and in situations like that the Barbarians can be quite a headache.

I wouldn't build a great wall in every game, but there are certainly situations where I'd like to have it.

vra379971 · Jul 27, 2006

Well, if you have raging barbs on, you'd have planned for the military to deal with them...and they make such lovely target practice

But really....any opinions on my suggested revamp?

jimbob27 · Jul 27, 2006

It sounds like a noob's wonder.

Once you've got the hang of civ4, the barbs are nothing to worry about. (unless you set them to raging). I'd much rather have some axemen/ horse archers near my borders on "fly-swatting" duty, and get all those lovely experience points.

vra379971 · Jul 27, 2006

Exactly, The Wall was built for communication in remote areas, AND for a *bit* of warning defense, It was never expected to hold them back forever, and never did either. They missed the mark here, and gave it attributes it was NEVER built ot have.

And yes, what do you people think my my revamp suuggestions?

Dearmad · Jul 27, 2006

I don't like them.

I'm not sure yet, but something can be modded in here to help out the wall.

Naokaukodem · Jul 27, 2006

An interesting multiplayer game would be to set the barbs on raging (or above?) so that there would be a race to the GW.

Mr Greenfinch · Jul 27, 2006

Why did Chinese build the Great Wall ?
Because they were placed on the map with huge tundra/forest area north of them. Not worth to settle and spawning hordes of Barbarians.
Try to play on huge map with only 3 civilizations. Raging Barbarians are not necessary to make you love The Great Wall.

Why didn't Germans build the Great Wall ?
Because they were placed in the middle of the map and soon got surrounded by neighbours. No FOW for Barbs to spawn.
So no need for them to waste hammers.

What you propose is to make Germans worth to build Great Wall in the middle of Europe. Why ? This would be stupid. For fun ? For visual effects ?

The Great Wall is not mandatory. No need to add artificial effects for it.

p dandy · Jul 27, 2006

Disregarding the realism factor, does the wall expand with your cultural borders. I built it the other day and it did not so does it only effect the borders present when the wall is completed?

vra379971 · Jul 27, 2006

The Germans didn't build the Great Wall for quite a few reasons...like lack of organization and scientific knowledge, mainly. Actually, the whole contenent was rife with the same issue...The secret of cement had been lost centuries before, and the fact the HRE was little more than a figurename after Charlemagne.

I don't see why barbs should not be able to cross with time, and why there is virtually no benefit to standing along it. What I propose is to give it a greater tactical use which would stand to benefit the player more as the player grows.

EDIT: No, it doesn't expand. Another problem. If it had a road/defence bonus it could be used effectively in case of a serious threat.

meatwad4289 · Jul 27, 2006

i wish they could enter the territory, but not pass the wall.

lucky326 · Jul 27, 2006

Be better to giv the wall the ablity to hold out normal enemys until they break through and if you repel them you then have the option of repairing the wall which should take a couple of turns

Zhahz · Jul 27, 2006

You know, you don't have to build the Great Wall. It might fit your circumstances or whatever. Or it might not. Or, and I know this could shock some players, you might just build it for fun instead of the quest for uberness.

vra379971 · Jul 27, 2006

I'm aware of the fact I don't have to build it. What irks me is the wall could be revamped in a way that would make it much more useful to the players - AI included.

Truronian · Jul 27, 2006

Zhahz said:
You know, you don't have to build the Great Wall. It might fit your circumstances or whatever. Or it might not. Or, and I know this could shock some players, you might just build it for fun instead of the quest for uberness.

Here, here. The Great Wall is the pimp my civ wonder :cool:

meatwad4289 · Jul 27, 2006

you know what, It has helped me create a global empire, because Barbarians go around me and attack my enemies.. All I gotta do is build a city, and Barbarians never return to that area, never ocme i nthe borders.. I lvoe it, but I wish it would only work for where the Wall Actually was, just icnase I'm beaten to it, it forces the other Civs to still be weary of the Barbs.

TomOC · Jul 27, 2006

I built the Great wall. Saved me from a barbarian onslaught. I was able to focus on building instead of protecting. Plus, I had no iron/copper, so had a weak army. Thank you Firaxis for making Chariots useful against axemen. :goodjob:

I may turn this lousy start into a win.

kcbrett5 · Jul 27, 2006

vra379971 said:
EDIT: No, it doesn't expand. Another problem. If it had a road/defence bonus it could be used effectively in case of a serious threat.

Yes, because walls that magically move and grow as time goes by would be a HUGE improvement. Give me a break. Don't build it then. I find many wonders to be a waste of time for my style of play. So you know what? I don't build them. But see you have a different style of play from me, so you might like them. That is the whole point of this game. There are many different ways to win.

Louis XXIV · Jul 27, 2006

meatwad4289 said:
i wish they could enter the territory, but not pass the wall.

Isn't that how its supposed to be?

Warlords...The Great Wall is horrible!

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