How can we destroy climate change sceptics?

aelf · Dec 15, 2009

Berzerker said:
so I should wish you dead for wanting to live in a cooler world?

I thought some clown would come up with this response.

But, no, not quite. My example was simply to point out that the moral dimension of that question is not so simple. We also have to ask whether the belief is harmful enough and whether it is justified.

REDY said:
If you followed what Mobboss said, my post is just idea how complete puzzle. I honestly dont know how it works, I didnt meet with scientists and didnt see their work and I as other people I rely on scientist conclusions. I only see in tv enthusiastic scientists who love nature and consider it as their duty defend it. Enviromentalism came from society´s demand based on feelings, not from scientists and research.

You think environmentalism doesn't have science and research behind it? :huh:

JollyRoger · Dec 15, 2009

Any harsh climate change is God's way of punishing us for thinking that man had any power or influence over the climate.

Ayatollah So · Dec 15, 2009

Berzerker said:
so I should wish you dead for wanting to live in a cooler world?

He doesn't wish to live in a cooler world - he wants the INCREASE in temperature to be relatively small. See the difference?

This, by the way, shows the irrelevance of comparing today's world with the ice age and asking which is better for deserts or whatever. Another ice age is not in the cards. We've already proven a technology (CO2 production) for staving them off until the waning of the sun some billions of years hence.

MobBoss · Dec 15, 2009

Bast said:
If you actually knew anything about the climate history of the planet, you'll know that changes occur over millions or least thousands of years. Not centuries and certainly not decades. The current anthropogenic climate change is an issue because it's happening so quickly as is the rise in CO2 ppm concentration.

Granted I am no expert. Far from it, but I do remember seeing some graphs that indicated such changes do occur more frequently than say 'millions of years'. I mean really, the last ice age was only 10-12 k years ago....

And there are some cycles with even smaller impact that occur more frequently even than 'thousands of years'.

nonconformist · Dec 15, 2009

All I ever see in these threads are:

Poster 1: I have a degree in macrometeorology etc. and I have reviewed the literature, and I am quite convinced about the effect, if not necessarily the mechanism.

Poster 2: Well, you don't know feck, cos it's snowing outside.

MobBoss · Dec 15, 2009

nonconformist said:
All I ever see in these threads are:

Poster 1: I have a degree in macrometeorology etc. and I have reviewed the literature, and I am quite convinced about the effect, if not necessarily the mechanism.

Poster 2: Well, you don't know feck, cos it's snowing outside.

I have made this point before and I think it valid. Dont you think its harder to sell global warming to people who are experiencing record cold weather for the last few years? People tend to believe whats right in front of them more often than a henny penny claiming the artic ice caps will all melt in less than 5 years.

I mean I see this a lot too:

Poster 1: Man, we gotta think of the polar bears! Global warming is killing them!!!

Poster 2: But there are more of them now than ever.

Poster 1: But dont you think they are endangered by global warming??????

Poster 2: Well, their numbers are actually increasing.....

Poster 1: But they are all gonna die!!!!

Poster 2: Uhm. Again, there are more of them than ever recorded before so.....?

REDY · Dec 15, 2009

aelf said:
You think environmentalism doesn't have science and research behind it?

I havent said it, I am saying that science came after that concept was already established. As animal rights also didnt come from scientist research.

nonconformist · Dec 15, 2009

Because, MobBoss, old boy, anecdotes do not bear much evidential weight, especially in terms of scientific study of macro scale.

People experiencing a period of weather inconsistant is not really compelling, primarily because he weather experuienced will be reasonably typical of the climate time of that region, and freak weather is always a possibility.
Also, it's actually happening to a minute section of then population.

If we were to concentrate our options on freak occurances (for that's essentially what these weather episodes are) then we'd be lead to some prettey weird-arse conclusions.

MobBoss · Dec 15, 2009

nonconformist said:
Because, MobBoss, old boy, anecdotes do not bear much evidential weight, especially in terms of scientific study of macro scale.

Not what I was arguing, but ok. My point was that anecdotes DO mean something to the average joe on the street.

People experiencing a period of weather inconsistant is not really compelling, primarily because he weather experuienced will be reasonably typical of the climate time of that region, and freak weather is always a possibility.
Also, it's actually happening to a minute section of then population.

Cooler temps have been ongoing for many years here now. How long a period does it need to be in order to be 'compelling'?

aelf · Dec 15, 2009

REDY said:
I havent said it, I am saying that science came after that concept was already established. As animal rights also didnt come from scientist research.

So you think the science is used to lend support to purely emotional causes?

RedRalph · Dec 15, 2009

MobBoss said:
Not what I was arguing, but ok. My point was that anecdotes DO mean something to the average joe on the street.

you are absolutely right, which is why the average joe on the street really shouldnt be taken too seriously on matters of hrd scinece and sums.

nonconformist · Dec 15, 2009

MobBoss said:
Not what I was arguing, but ok. My point was that anecdotes DO mean something to the average joe on the street.

That's because the average Joe's understanding of science is "wait, aren't the microwaves coming through the glass and OH MY GOD MY BALLS"

Garonius · Dec 15, 2009

By proving Manbearpig exists! I'm super serial!

Ecofarm · Dec 15, 2009

5 years, no ice -Manbearpig

In order to believe that there might be no ice in the artic circle, for the entire year, in five years (consider, for a moment, where that leaves ice existing sometimes during the year), one must be:

1. Completely ignorant of oceanography, climatology, climateography and basically all real or imagined science.

2. Alzheimers.

Do that on a world stage (Kobenhavn), and your career is over. Buh bye Gore.

He shoulda gone to Christiania instead.

Ziggy Stardust · Dec 15, 2009

MobBoss said:
Poster 2: Uhm. Again, there are more of them than ever recorded before so.....?

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11656-climate-myths-polar-bear-numbers-are-increasing.html

MobBoss said:
Not what I was arguing, but ok. My point was that anecdotes DO mean something to the average joe on the street.

But they are irrelevant in the debate.

Cooler temps have been ongoing for many years here now. How long a period does it need to be in order to be 'compelling'?

Many years now? No they haven't.

It's still getting hotter, 1998 doesn't change that. The last decade has been warmer than the one before. And the one before that, and the one ... you get my point. (2000-2009 has been warmer than 1990-1999)

Garonius · Dec 15, 2009

Ecofarm said:
5 years, no ice -Manbearpig

In order to believe that there might be no ice in the artic circle, for the entire year, in five years (consider, for a moment, where that leaves ice existing sometimes during the year), one must be:

1. Completely ignorant of oceanography, climatology, climateography and basically all real or imagined science.

2. Alzheimers.

Do that on a world stage (Copenhagen), and your career is over. Buh bye Gore.

He shoulda gone to Christiania instead.

Been there very cold no polar bears though.

Ecofarm · Dec 15, 2009

Visited ~monthly for ~year.

They have (~2002) a great italian sandwich shop (just outside christiania, near the steps to the lake), with proper pesto.

Anyone else ever been to Christiania (in Kobenhavn, few blocks, weed legal) on Christmas Eve? It's pretty amazing. I was there on accident (I don't pay attention to holidays).

El_Machinae · Dec 15, 2009

The worry is ice-free in the summer in the next decade. Not ice-free all year round

MobBoss · Dec 15, 2009

RedRalphWiggum said:
you are absolutely right, which is why the average joe on the street really shouldnt be taken too seriously on matters of hrd scinece and sums.

nonconformist said:
That's because the average Joe's understanding of science is "wait, aren't the microwaves coming through the glass and OH MY GOD MY BALLS"

Ziggy Stardust said:
But they are irrelevant in the debate.
Many years now? No they haven't.

I humbly submit that they are indeed relevant to the debate as you cant stop or even slow down global warming without their participation.

The last decade has been warmer than the one before.

Actually, I have seen some headlines that say the last decade was cooler than the one before.... :confused:

PiMan · Dec 15, 2009

MobBoss said:
Actually, I have seen some headlines that say the last decade was cooler than the one before....

Only when compared to 1998 alone or focusing exclusively on North America.

How can we destroy climate change sceptics?

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