SGOTM 03 - Geezers

Dagnabit said:
The Northern City spot looks to be a very good commerce city once we get enough happys. If we are delaying another galley for awhile, I urge we keep the first one near our fishing grounds. IMHO no threat from Gandi but I don't trust the pair to the SE. Especially if they like each other they are less likely to duke it out amongst themselves, but look for some other whimp on the block. And that could be us!:eek:
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I'm not so worried about fishery protection, however it might be a good idea to keep the galley near SP. That way the settler can get to it's spot quicker than by hiking through the jungle.

@Htadus - Was Vickie was scouting by sea or did she have an OB with Ghandi?

I think we should start looking at building up our military in the not too distant future, we're currently last in the demographics screen, to deter some of our neighbours. Good old Mao springs to mind. I know there's a whole queue of things to build but I really think the AI will be looking for space to settle cities soon and military power, or lack of it, does tend to determine their victim.
 
DynamicSpirit said:
Worth renaming Novgorod to Coppertownski since that's what we've been referring to it as?
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Sounds good to me.

DynamicSpirit said:
btw suggestion: Is it worth players who are exploring making a note of what units they see in AI cities as they go past? - That'll give us clues about what resources the AI have. AFAICS if we don't record/remember that info at the time, there's no way within the SGOTM rules to recover it later on, unless it happens to coincide with an uploaded save.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the occasional pic might be more helpful? You don't have to post the whole pic as it's reasonably easy to crop in Paint.

DynamicSpirit said:
For the next city spot, I'm erring towards Thrallia's westernmost recommended city spot, which we can cottage. This has the strategic advantage that once it's established, it looks like we'll be able, by selectively denying open borders, to completely seal off the rest of our continent from AI settlers.
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It sounds a reasonable idea to me. However we really do need to concentrate on infrastructure and military after that.
 
Sam_Yeager said:
It sounds a reasonable idea to me. However we really do need to concentrate on infrastructure and military after that.
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Agreed. Is the best thing for Coppertownski to become our military town? As soon as it has the obelisk and the horses are hooked up, turn out a chariot or two, then barracks, then continuous military for as long as we feel we need it (other than getting a granary at some point)?
 
DynamicSpirit said:
Agreed. Is the best thing for Coppertownski to become our military town? As soon as it has the obelisk and the horses are hooked up, turn out a chariot or two, then barracks, then continuous military for as long as we feel we need it (other than getting a granary at some point)?
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Sounds good. :D Specialised cities, here we come.
 
Vicky had an archer south of the south eastern indian city border, I am not sure if they have OB.

The city site DynamicSpirit is speaking is the same that I recommended. I should have said NW of copperT. since the directly N site would not really secure the land from India.:blush:

I would have trained a warrior in StP but I must have missunderstood a earlier discussion between DynamicSpirit and Thrallia about unhappy people and building worker/settlers. But I am sure Mark can fix that in a jiffy.

FYI I type real slow so I tend to cut and paste and abriviate things. So please do not mind that and that is how I messed up the roster. Sorry.:cry:
 
After IW should we head for Alpha or pick up a cheaper tradable tech?

Coppertownski isn't going to expand for approx. 22 turns. St Pete in 6. I would put the workboat next to St Petes to work as soon as culture expands. The worker in Moscow is done in 4, so could be used to chop a workboat for Coppertownski which should just about be in Muscovy Bay when Ctown expands. If Coppertownski is going make troops how about trying to fit in a barracks first?
 
I realise that we don't want to agree OBs in the near future but perhaps we should start thinking which civs are unlikely to be our allies. Alex springs to mind immediately. Apart from anything else he's a confirmed backstabber. I have to say that I suspect Mao is unlikely to be the best of buddies either.

Another question is what are we going to do unfriendly civs? Do we just build up our military to deter them or do we look to attack them when we actually have enough military. Personally I think that Mao and/or Alex will attack us anyway.
 
We have 3 cities and room for 3, maybe 4, more on our continent. 1 more on the island SW if it has any decent resources. I think that's rather smaller than we need to be for fastest research, so we're almost certainly going to want to take out someone nearby anyway. There's definite arguments for taking Out Alex, perhaps Mao depending what kind of borders with Alex he has. As Sam says, Alex is not that trustworthy; he also occupies the territory with lowest distance costs to Moscow. OTOH Gandhi is peaceful and usually becomes a research powerhouse, which means he'll probably be good to have as a long term tech-trading ally - that suggests we want to avoid war with him.

We do also need to be thinking about trying to nab ourselves more happiness/health resources too - so what kind of land or neighbours occupy is important, and we don't yet know much about that.
 
not much time right now to say anything other than it is looking great :)

I agree we should be prepared to block off India but I'd rather settle the cow city next, perhaps send a settler over there and the instant we see a galley coming we drop down the city, rather than founding it immediately and incurring a lot of distance penalties so soon.

As for anything else, I'll have to wait till tomorrow to speculate on it, I've got my mother-in-law in town and 2 finals to study for. Hopefully mark takes awhile to play and we get some good discussion so I don't need to play till tuesday or wednesday, otherwise I'll need a swap with Simon.
 
Well, we are not in a hurry, are we ? :)
I plan to play tomorrow or on Tuesday. I just had a short look at the save and am not yet sure what to build next. I will have a more detailed look later today or tomorrow.
 
order a warrior in Moscow to build before the worker

IBT : nothing

1) 985BC : just move the workboat

IBT : zzz

2) 970BC : the workboat continues to around that island in the SW and we meet Julius Caesar

IBT : warrior completes in Moscow

3) 955BC : send the workboat back towards SP as the borders will expand in 3

IBT : JC asks for open borders, I decline for the time being

4) 940BC : The Pyramids are built in a far away land

IBT : zzz

5) 925BC : just moving units

IBT : borders of SP expands
Novgorod : Obelisk -> chariot

6) 910BC : zzz

IBT : Moscow : worker -> workboat

7) 895BC : zzz

IBT : nothing

8) 880BC : zzz

IBT : nothing

9) 865BC : zzz

IBT : nothing

10) 850BC : zzz
 
Excellent! Starting to get a better idea of the surrounding area. :goodjob:

Not happy to find Rome there. That's the Civ I'd least like to see on our borders (with the possible exception of the Aztecs).

Slightly disappointing that we're still in last place of the civs we know so far, despite I think our having made very effective use of slavery to expand quickly. I notice that both Caesar and Mao have 5 cities (how have they done that????). Vicky has 4, Gandhi has 3, Alex has just 2 (Another reason to take him out first?).
 
Thrallia said:
I agree we should be prepared to block off India but I'd rather settle the cow city next, perhaps send a settler over there and the instant we see a galley coming we drop down the city, rather than founding it immediately and incurring a lot of distance penalties so soon.
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Would it change the argument if we could work the gems very quickly, which should more than compensate for the distance penalty? (We could always do as you suggest, but instead of waiting till we see a galley coming, wait until EITHER we see a galley coming OR we have mined the gems so that the new town can start working them immediately).
 
I don't think you can do any mining outside cultural borders. So until city is established don't think we can get ahead of the game. I could be wrong.:confused:
 
A quick look at the save. Two points: settlers & workers. There is a lot of trees between St Pete and the Capitol. We need 3 more settlers(in addition) to the one growing in StPete. One for the clams north of Coppertowski, the cow and the island south. Not necessarily in that order. If india wants the west end of our island he had better have iron working because there is nothing but jungle. I would rather have us concentrate on growable cites. Clams north and cows NE. I think I would also try and get the island south. To do this all I would embark on a systematic chopping of the forests between StPete and Moscow. I would not rush unless we can take advantage of unhappy. Chop worker, Two workers chop 2 settlers(stpete&Moscow)thenchop another worker and settler.
 
Going for 3 in a row!:clap: Iron working will come in soon so we may want to modify our site selections. The current settler should go to cow or north 2 clams
 
Dagnabit said:
I don't think you can do any mining outside cultural borders. So until city is established don't think we can get ahead of the game. I could be wrong.:confused:
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Sorry, prob didn't explain enough. In 9 turns time the cultural borders of Coppertownski will expand. That brings the gems W-NW of Coppertownski within its radius. Those gems will also be within the city radius of the new town, they're on the one square that's shared between the two cities - hence we can take advantage of them being within Coppertownski's radius to chop/mine them even if we haven't at that point founded the new city (Since Coppertownski is presumably going to be production-focused, to build up our military, it's unlikely we'll want it to work those gems in the near future)

Checking the game a bit more St. P will build a settler in 7 turns, which is too soon for us to have the mine ready immediately (we can't chop the jungle until we have IW, due in 8 turns), but if Moscow works on a settler next, I think that settler should be better timed for those gems. I do agree btw that we should hold that settler for IW, as it's only one turn, before we decide what to do with it. If there is iron anywhere reachable, that should override all other considerations for settling.
 
Dagnabit said:
We need 3 more settlers(in addition) to the one growing in StPete. ... To do this all I would embark on a systematic chopping of the forests between StPete and Moscow. I would not rush unless we can take advantage of unhappy. Chop worker, Two workers chop 2 settlers(stpete&Moscow)thenchop another worker and settler.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, on reflection I'm inclined to agree, with one proviso (below). I'm very nervous about chopping, especially because of the risk of killing all production in St. P, but on balance I think the advantages of getting the settlers/workers out asap are so strong that they outweigh the benefits of having the forests available later. (The forests in St P are in any case occupying squares that could be cottaged to make St P a brilliant commerce city). I suggest if we do go that route, we preferentially chop the forest-grassland tiles before the forest-plains, as the forest-plains are potentially more useful to keep if we find we do need high-hammer squares later.

The proviso is that I can't decide whether or not settling that island is a good idea. (I'm totally on the fence here).

On the +:
  • It's there and settleable without any warring.
  • It can grow quickly with the crab
  • The crab gives us another health resource (Note: We're not short of health resources. Until our cities are much bigger, the crab'll be most useful as something we can trade away).
  • It has a fair production potential which could give us a boost in any early wars.
  • If we don't settle it, an AI might put a city on it that takes away St P's Westernmost clam
  • Any AI that settles it is extremely likely to get a 'close borders spark tension' with us
  • It stops the Romans settling it (I want any Roman praetorians as far away as possible from our core cities)
  • It has ocean tiles S and E, suggesting a good natural boundary for our empire

On the -:
  • It's near the Roman border so could provoke hostilities
  • The land isn't exactly lush. I bet there's far juicier cities on the Greek/Chinese land for us to capture.
  • An island with one city'll be harder to defend. We'll probably need to permanently station a 2-3 strong garrison there.
  • It stops the Indians settling it (that could have put a useful buffer between us and Rome). But if we don't settle it I think Romans taking it is more likely than Indians.

Overall, I think settling there would be strategically good, but won't help our science much. Of course the Romans might not have iron in which case we don't need to worry about them :lol:
 
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