WH Discussion Thread

I like the monoliths

Um. removing monoliths would only be for Ulthuan.

Others have to lose Wood Working, and with that the ability to Clear Forest that comes with the Deforestation tech in the middle of 2nd era. It has to be Wood Working because 7 or 8 civs have their unique techs that could include Vassalage or they even have empty slots, and everyone else (`cept Ulthuan) has Wood Working.

So, I have a question - do you, and if you do, how often, clear forests? I almost never do, and when I do, its cos my workers are on auto-pilot.

How much time does it take to it with Player Numbers? Cos I normally play themed games - Lustria, Far East, Old World and Official Armies, so I can make myself several .biqs.

I just had a proper look at the biq (yeah I know, it's half past twelve and I'm looking at biqs ). There is at least one ancient age tech for each civ that could easily be replaced by a vassal related tech. This wouldn't screw up the balance of the game too much, and to me would seem to be better than losing the Monoliths or wood working.

The techs I'm talking about are the ones like Domestication, Mysticism and farming.

but, they have to start the game with a free tech good biq hunting, and yup half 12 here too, cant sleap

kairob said:

That would let us give as many free techs as we want, but I think that if you use that then dont you lose the ability to pic which civs you have on a random map? i.e. if you had an 8 player map then wouldn't the first 8 players be put down instead of the random choice. I haven't explained it well, but hopefull you will get what I mean...

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I understand and you are probably right about that too

Stormrage said:

Um. removing monoliths would only be for Ulthuan.

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Unless you assigned Monoliths to Ulthuan's new tech Or does another civ have access to them, too?

Albion, but you could just let both of those techs allow it, but then they would be able to build it from the start, unless they led to another tech like "albionese monoliths", but its probs getting a bit complecated their.

kairob said:

Albion, but you could just let both of those techs allow it, but then they would be able to build it from the start, unless they led to another tech like "albionese monoliths", but its probs getting a bit complecated their.

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The monoliths can only be assigned to one tech.

Yeah, cos its a worker action.

Keroro - good point, my first thought too actually, but that would slow the game even more. Mrtn made it faster with earlier irrigation in 2.5, but I`m still having trouble reaching the 2nd part of the 3rd era on a standard difficulty, standard map, before I end up standing on a bloody heap of enemies

Any suggestions for removing, tho?

Okay, I have been messing with this list today, so I want to know your opinion. (and before mrtn starts yelling, I`ll remind thim that this is the "other" WH thread )

Ogre Kingdoms - Religious (food is their religion, and they eat alot) and Militaristic Outsiders, they start the game with Monarchy, Mysticism and Domestication. They are weak at the start, with measly Gnoblars as their major force, no respectfull cavalry (actually no cavalry at all. The Trapper is, altho he has 2MP, a Foot Unit) and the first Ogre unit costs as an Infantry unit. Later on, all units will be strong, but very expensive. They will not have an agressive A.I. setting so they will (I hope) not be major players on the world map, altho they could be, just like in Warhammer lore. If you see they have settled fertile and productive lands, I would suggest you whipe them out or do not annoy them

Some of you may ask why aren`t units such as Rhinox Cavalry, Gorgers or the Hunter in my list. Rhinox Cavalry is not included simpy because I don`t think the scales work. If you scale it to a Horseman it will be huge. If you scale it to a War Mammoth, if will look funny, because the Ogre will be tiny. As for the Gorgers, I have no idea what to do, what stats to give them and in what Tech to put them. A Hunter is a WHFB Lord unit, and I feel that along with the Butcher and the Tyrant, it would be overkill. Not in the sense of their stasts, but in the sense of using rather unique members of the Ogre army as buildable units.

Comments and suggestions are welcomed.

Greasus Goldtooth - King
Ogre Settler - 35, 0.0.1. - modeled after the Orc Settler
Gnoblar Worker - 10, 0.1.1 - modeled after the Goblin Worker
Spy - standard
Fireball - standard
Fireblast - standard
Lightning Bolt - standard
Gaseous Cloud - standard
Firestorm - standard
Coracle - standard
Boat - standard
Galley - standard
Death Galley - standard
Ogre Ship - 50, 5.3.5 (trasnport 5) - modeled after the Greenskin Hulk
Halfling Archer - standard - GW says they are close genetic relatives crazyeye with the Ogres, so it seems appropriate!
Halfing Mercenary - standard
Gnoblar - 10, 2.2.1. - upgrade to Gnoblar Fighter - modeled after the Snotling
Gnoblar Fighter - 20, 2.4.1 - Warrior Code - modeled after the Goblin Spearman
Gnoblar Slinger - 25, .5.2*.1 - Balistics - modeled after the Goblin Archer
Ogre Butcher - 35, 4.4*.1. (bomb.3, range 1, rof 1, detect invisible, lethal land & sea bombardment) - Magic - modeled after the Orc Shaman, but made stronger, because even if they are not great magical talents, they can really hold their own if it comes to melee.
Gnoblar Trapper - 25, 4.2.2. - Smithing - same tech as the first Ogre, cos they are not much of fighters but are good for scouting, since Ogres are slow.
Ogre - 55, 8.4.1. (requires Iron) - Smithing, upgrades to Ogre Bull - superior unit in the Ancient age. modeled after the standard infantry unit, but more expensive and with weaker defense
Ogre Bull - 70, 10.6.1. (requires Iron) - Steel - modeled after the standard Infantry, but more expensive and with weaker attack
Irongut - 80, 10.6.1. (+1HP, reqiores Iron) - Chivalry - slightly better than the Ogre Bulls, but also slightly more expensive
Maneater - 120, 12.6.1. (+1 HP, requires Ogres) - Dogs of War - this unit will replace the Irongut Mercenary for OK, available earlier, but with only 1HP bonus
Slave Giant - 150, 12.6.1 (+2HP) - Nature Lore - modeled after the Jotun
Yhetee - 110, 9.6.2. (+1HP, requires Beasts) - Creature Control - modeled after the Fen Beast
Gnoblar Scraplauncher - 120, 6.6*.1. (bomb.8, range 1, rof2, lethal land & sea bombardment) - Invention - GW description says it has some close combat capabilities so I modeled if after the Hellcannon, but Fire Catapult`s bombardment strength
Tyrant - 200, 14.8.1. (+ 2HP) - Domination - GW description says they can handle dragons on their own, so I did a mix of a Red Dragon and a Grail Knight, but slower and withoug other perks.
Leadbelcher - 130, 12.6*.1 (bomb.4, range 1, rof 2) - Metallurgy - unlike the Leadbelcher Mercenary, doesn`t require Ogres, but Iron instead
Rocket Launcher - standard - Mountains of Mourn are close to Cathay..

PS - what would you think of a War Mammoth-like Rhinox unit? With a basket/tower full of Gnoblar Slingers instead of an Ogre rider as Forge World has portrayed it?

My comments:

Gov: Shouldn't they be Despotism?

Traits: There are so many rel civs! Why not Commercial since the Ogres fight as mercenaries? Com Mil, seems better to me.

The units are too much alike. Almost same stats, only a hp in difference.

I think all ogres should have 1hp. Here is my suggestion, based on yours.

Gnoblar Trapper - 30, 5.2.2. - Military Tradition - Smithing makes no sense to me.

Ogre - 55, 7.3.1. 1hp (requires Iron) - Smithing, upgrades to Irongut

Ogre Bull - 70, 7.6.1. 1hp (requires Iron) - Steel. A defence unit were missing.

Irongut - 90, 10.6.1. (+1HP, reqiores Iron) - Chivalry for Ogres? I say Steel. New standard second age infantry.

Maneater - 120, 12.6.1. 1hp (requires no resources) It makes no sense that an Ogre unit should require Ogres for the Ogres.

I just thought about Monarchy sinc its Ogre Kingdoms. But yeah Despotism would be better, good idea YP! But if they are in Despotism, they haven` got much use for the Commercial trait, or do they? I mean, beside diplomacy.

I was thinking that Maneaters should require Ogres, cos they are kinda mercenaries coming back home to their tribes, outsiders.

I like your other suggestions alot, tho

Though one could argue that the Ogre Kingdom resource should be removed from the game as a whole if the Ogre Kingdoms civ is added.

Why woulden't they have a use for the Com trait if they are Despotism?

Also another thing that makes civs interesting are specific techs and buildings, any ideas?

Well, Despotism uses Forced Labour, so you can`t use money to hurry up production. But I suppose the more diplomatic players might have a use for it...

I am searching for techs and building material, it will probably have something to do with pit-fighting and feast halls..

I never use much of my gold on rusking anyway.

Besides Commercial is more than just gold.

Marketplaces (happiness) are easier to build? I see no other use for Commercial aside from gold..

Storm: Commercial also provides anti-corruption bonuses... I.e. something like 10% less corruption and/or a 10% increase in the OCN (which, IIRC is actually translates to an even bigger reduction than a straight-up 10% off the top)....

The way I play, reduced corruption is a definite plus.

I know a further patch is highly unlikely, however I keep finding that the last era is a bit of an anticlimax, especially for civs that don't get any units there. So I was wondering if a small wonder allowing espionage for everyone to help the late game might be considered if the is another patch?

well stormrage said he was going to update the units but im not sure if hes willing to change anything with the gameplay but you can ask him

btw stormy how is that update going do you need help?

Santa already has his little helpers

I would like to see you help LOTM tho.

Sandris is unofficially helping MEM2 and AD, and that way 4 of my favorite mods would be covered

As far as changing gameplay goes, I am pondering a few ideas, you are welcome to post your own ofcourse.