Law Lets Schools Expel Gay Students

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So, if you want "freedom and rights" why aren't equivalent civil unions enough?

"Separate but equal" is inherently unequal.

IMO any behavior that significantly reduces lifespan should be discouraged

Quality of life matters too, not just its quantity. Some people may value a short, happy life over a long, miserable one. It's not your place to dictate the manner in which other people live their lives, anymore than it is their place to dictate how you live yours.
 
Could you please break the quotes up? Please, it is getting hard to understand what you are refering to.
So, if you want "freedom and rights" why aren't equivalent civil unions enough?
Because in the current form civil unions don't carry all of the legal benefits of marriage.
While China didn't believe in a god it was spiritual.
And this has what relavence to anything?
China under the Qing was collapsing.
China under the Communists is on the rise.
Can you explain that?
 
So it is inherently unequal that men and women have separate stalls and prisons?
There you run into privacy issues. Especialy in the bathrooms.
 
Fun Fact: I have visited the bathroom at the Minneapolis-St. Paul Airport that Larry Craig got to toe-tapping in.
 
So it is inherently unequal that men and women have separate stalls and prisons?

You're deviating from the issue at hand. The problem here is private schools discriminating against LGBT people, not men and women having separate bathroom stalls.
 
Civ_king, please break up posts.

Perhaps the schools do not believe that "cures" exist.

Umm. That's impossible. Religions generally believe homosexuality to be a choice, albeit a sinful one. Therefore, it can be "cured" in their world view.

So, if you want "freedom and rights" why aren't equivalent civil unions enough?

My union should be equal in name and substance by the grace of the secular deity, the government.

Either give gays equal marriage, or give everyone a civil union instead and make marriage a term with no legal meaing. Full equality.

So you hate freedom?

If a democracy can have 50%+1 of the population vote to take away the rights of the rest, hell yes I do. I believe in checks and restraints on the popular will. The support gay marriage bans enjoy just reinforces my commitment to direct, unfettered democracy being a horrific system of government.

Iran is also a democracy but a flawed one that needs serious fixing.

Different brain chemistries do not mean a gay man is going to be successful at breast-feeding

Breastfeeding isn't legally mandated, so I don't see the problem here. Straight couples buy bottles all the time.

And I'll bet you ten bucks a child would have a better life under gay parents without precious breastfeeding than they would in the bloody orphanage.

Why do you want to foist your opinions onto other people?

My forcing is a different beast than any anti-homosexual kind: I believe in equality, maximising the pursuit of happiness, and protecting us all from eachother. The opposition believes it's the government's job to uphold morality despite morality varying based on who you ask.

Because they would be demeaning other people.

Umm... if I find the perfect boyfriend, and we get married, and we spend the rest of our lives 'til death do us part, how the heck does that demean anybody else's relationship?

The only person who can "demean" a relationship is the people in it.

So basically your argument is based on what you feel and deriding what others feel.

My argument maximises happiness, and appeals to logic rather than a book that we can't even prove is based in fact. Or tradition, which can still be ridiculous no matter how old or young it is.

IMO any behavior that significantly reduces lifespan should be discouraged

Your argument therefore is against reckless sex, not homosexuality.

Plus, discouraging is different from getting the state to say "no." You're free to raise your children to believe homosexuality's a sin, that sex is wrong unless it produces children, etc. But don't dare tell me via your liason, Uncle Sam, that I can't have a marriage equal to yours with the person I love, nor can we raise children together.

Because in the current form civil unions don't carry all of the legal benefits of marriage.

Never mind it's still ridiculous to differentiate at all even if they are truly equal. Unless your "logic" is to make one union more "holy" than another, which has no place in the halls of government.

So it is inherently unequal that men and women have separate stalls and prisons?

The sexes are a very different kettle of fish, especially as far as prisons and the army are concerned: pregnancy, anyone?

Women seem to feel their privacy is invaded by having men in their bathrooms, so I don't see the problem here - everyone has a right to privacy.
 
There you run into privacy issues. Especialy in the bathrooms.
Isn't peeking into another person's stall illegal in the US
Civ_king, please break up posts.



Umm. That's impossible. Religions generally believe homosexuality to be a choice, albeit a sinful one. Therefore, it can be "cured" in their world view.
Catholicism says homosexual actions are a choice however homosexual thoughts are not (just like fornication and adultery are choices however lust is not). Considering you are talking in absolutes ("That's impossible" is an absolute) and a major religion disagrees your argument is invalid.
My union should be equal in name and substance by the grace of the secular deity, the government.

Either give gays equal marriage, or give everyone a civil union instead and make marriage a term with no legal meaing. Full equality.
Heterosexuals can get civil unions too
If a democracy can have 50%+1 of the population vote to take away the rights of the rest, hell yes I do. I believe in checks and restraints on the popular will. The support gay marriage bans enjoy just reinforces my commitment to direct, unfettered democracy being a horrific system of government.

Iran is also a democracy but a flawed one that needs serious fixing.
Iran is far more of a theocracy than a democracy
Breastfeeding isn't legally mandated, so I don't see the problem here. Straight couples buy bottles all the time.

And I'll bet you ten bucks a child would have a better life under gay parents without precious breastfeeding than they would in the bloody orphanage.
You are right, breastfeeding should definitely be encouraged
My forcing is a different beast than any anti-homosexual kind: I believe in equality, maximising the pursuit of happiness, and protecting us all from eachother. The opposition believes it's the government's job to uphold morality despite morality varying based on who you ask.
how does gay marriage protect us from each other? By making marriage exclusively about happiness you make it easy to discard and thus worthless.
Umm... if I find the perfect boyfriend, and we get married, and we spend the rest of our lives 'til death do us part, how the heck does that demean anybody else's relationship?

The only person who can "demean" a relationship is the people in it.
Because you can't fulfill the vow

A person who is a part of a symbol can disgrace the symbol, like a lying, cheating, thieving officer
My argument maximises happiness, and appeals to logic rather than a book that we can't even prove is based in fact. Or tradition, which can still be ridiculous no matter how old or young it is.
Except the book basically defined marriage
Your argument therefore is against reckless sex, not homosexuality.

Plus, discouraging is different from getting the state to say "no." You're free to raise your children to believe homosexuality's a sin, that sex is wrong unless it produces children, etc. But don't dare tell me via your liason, Uncle Sam, that I can't have a marriage equal to yours with the person I love, nor can we raise children together.
I'm not arguing against homosexuality. Also you are implying that homosexuals engage in reckless sex.
Never mind it's still ridiculous to differentiate at all even if they are truly equal. Unless your "logic" is to make one union more "holy" than another, which has no place in the halls of government.
or maybe it is respecting the establish of religion?
The sexes are a very different kettle of fish, especially as far as prisons and the army are concerned: pregnancy, anyone?

Women seem to feel their privacy is invaded by having men in their bathrooms, so I don't see the problem here - everyone has a right to privacy.
So infertile women aren't women?
 
Isn't peeking into another person's stall illegal in the US
Yeah.

Fun Fact: While legally you can have reasonable privacy in a house, you don't have that same respect in a mobile home.
 
Thank you for breaking up your posts. :)

Catholicism says homosexual actions are a choice however homosexual thoughts are not (just like fornication and adultery are choices however lust is not).

Yes, and it is possible to "cure" homosexual behavior, by supposedly making them be attracted to females instead.

Considering you are talking in absolutes ("That's impossible" is an absolute) and a major religion disagrees your argument is invalid.

No, it wasn't. If homosexual behavior is a sin, then it's a choice and therefore can be "cured" in the eyes of faiths that say it's a sin. I said it was impossible for a religion that considers it a sin to say it's capable of being cured; that would make no sense. All sin can be cured.

Heterosexuals can get civil unions too

Good then! Abolish marriage as an institution and transfer all its legal applications to a secular civil union homosexual and heterosexual alike can enter.

Iran is far more of a theocracy than a democracy

It's a democracy(the people elect the lower leaders who in turn elect the higher leaders, etc.) with theocratic overtones, making it an illiberal one.

You are right, breastfeeding should definitely be encouraged

To my knowledge, it already is.

how does gay marriage protect us from each other?

Easy. It says "no faith will control what others can do." Faith is the WHOLE basis of banning gay marriage, that or tradition based on faith.

By making marriage exclusively about happiness you make it easy to discard and thus worthless.

I'll bite. What else is marriage about? Loyalty to one's spouse? It can't be procreation if the infertile can get married.

Sounds like there's not much to make it about. :p

Because you can't fulfill the vow

If me and my boyfriend get married, how does that keep you from fulfilling your vows? :confused: You can still be wed until death do you part.

Except the book basically defined marriage

People will tell you marriage goes way back beyond the Bible. The Bible gave a specific CONCEPT of marriage, not the sole universal kind. The Egyptians and Hindus have the greatest legitimacy on marriage if we're appealing to age.

Even so, if the Bible has a place in our government, surely the Dao De Ching and Koran do as well. This is not good precedent. God must stay out of government.

I'm not arguing against homosexuality.

Then what are you arguing against? Gay marriage?

Also you are implying that homosexuals engage in reckless sex.

No, I am not. You said you are against behaviors that reduce lifespan, which I assume refers to STDS, which opponents of homosexuality like to cite as being higher amongst gays.

or maybe it is respecting the establish of religion?

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion." Combining this with Jefferson's wall of separation, it sounds like a good idea to keep religion out of government. Indeed. It has no place in government - if we ban gay marriage, we're hurting religions that say it's fine. If we allow it, we hurt religions that say it's bad. Therefore, get it out of government entirely.

So infertile women aren't women?

I never said that, but generally, it makes sense to keep the sexes segregated in prison and the army. Most are not infertile, and I severely doubt the average man is willing to go possibly decades at a time without, well.

As for infertile women, they still shouldn't be thrown in for the simple fact they'd still be the targets of rape.
 
Why do you want to foist your opinions onto other people?
Because they would be demeaning other people.
So basically your argument is based on what you feel and deriding what others feel.

That is precisely what you doing and claiming that religion backs you up. It might do, but you're still demeaning certain people in doing so.
 
Marriage is a traditional institution for the transfer and perpetuation of property ownership. I really wish religion would stop messing with such venerable traditions with all this love and procreation crap.
 
It was also traditional to deny women the vote, to execute people for relatively minor crimes, to keep slaves and so on. An appeal to tradition does not really hold water in the modern world.
 
Thank you for breaking up your posts. :)
Okay
Yes, and it is possible to "cure" homosexual behavior, by supposedly making them be attracted to females instead.
That doesn't make sense.
No, it wasn't. If homosexual behavior is a sin, then it's a choice and therefore can be "cured" in the eyes of faiths that say it's a sin. I said it was impossible for a religion that considers it a sin to say it's capable of being cured; that would make no sense. All sin can be cured.
Yes, it is a choice to act on impulses. You don't cure sin, you stop doing the sin.
Good then! Abolish marriage as an institution and transfer all its legal applications to a secular civil union homosexual and heterosexual alike can enter.
No because marriage is beneficial to the state
It's a democracy(the people elect the lower leaders who in turn elect the higher leaders, etc.) with theocratic overtones, making it an illiberal one.
You are aware Ahmadinejad is a puppet and the Ayatollah is running the country right?
To my knowledge, it already is.
unfortunately not enough
Easy. It says "no faith will control what others can do." Faith is the WHOLE basis of banning gay marriage, that or tradition based on faith.
Marriage is beneficial to the state, homosexual marriage not so much
I'll bite. What else is marriage about? Loyalty to one's spouse? It can't be procreation if the infertile can get married.

Sounds like there's not much to make it about. :p
The infertile can be loving and supportive in a complete way
If me and my boyfriend get married, how does that keep you from fulfilling your vows? :confused: You can still be wed until death do you part.
You render the vows hollow
People will tell you marriage goes way back beyond the Bible. The Bible gave a specific CONCEPT of marriage, not the sole universal kind. The Egyptians and Hindus have the greatest legitimacy on marriage if we're appealing to age.

Even so, if the Bible has a place in our government, surely the Dao De Ching and Koran do as well. This is not good precedent. God must stay out of government.
In the evolution of Western society the Bible has had far more influence than Egyptians and Hindus
Then what are you arguing against? Gay marriage?
Homosexual sex
No, I am not. You said you are against behaviors that reduce lifespan, which I assume refers to STDS, which opponents of homosexuality like to cite as being higher amongst gays.
Homosexuals have a much shorter life expectancy than heterosexuals
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion." Combining this with Jefferson's wall of separation, it sounds like a good idea to keep religion out of government. Indeed. It has no place in government - if we ban gay marriage, we're hurting religions that say it's fine. If we allow it, we hurt religions that say it's bad. Therefore, get it out of government entirely.
Except Jefferson didn't want the government to interfere with religion, also the purpose was to prevent a state church like the CoE. You only hurt religions that say it is good and the religions that disapprove of homosexual marriage. The top four religions which account for the vast majority of people do not have homosexual marriages
I never said that, but generally, it makes sense to keep the sexes segregated in prison and the army. Most are not infertile, and I severely doubt the average man is willing to go possibly decades at a time without, well.

As for infertile women, they still shouldn't be thrown in for the simple fact they'd still be the targets of rape.
I never said you said that. You have good reason to doubt, homosexual prison sex is common, men get raped in prison too.
 
Are you going to include any citations for those soundbites, Civ_king? We wouldn't want people thinking that you were being reactionary or biased.
 
opposition to gay marriage and opposition to interracial marriage are very different, one discriminates against people on the basis of their skin, the other takes into account that men and women are different, we have boys and girls bathrooms for a reason, we don't have black and white bathrooms, that wouldn't make sense.
 
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