The Immortal Challenge 3: The Gathering Storm

I'm not a big fan of Metal Casting this early unless it's from the Oracle. It's a very expensive tech at this point in the game and opens only 2 things: Forges and The Colossus.

Nah, the main point of MC is to trade it. The AIs don't go for it, and it's more expensive than the 4 C's + M (Calendar, CoL, Construction, Currency, Monarchy), so you can pretty much always trade it for two of them. If you simply start on e.g. Construction yourself, it's quite likely that one of both of the AIs will beat you to it = no trades. So I say, Alphabet first, look to get IW and Math in trade, then reasses. Possibly Construction for war, or MC for trade, or Lit for the GL.

peace,
lilnev
 
I'm a noob, but I have a suggestion: build a city to get the stone and rush to Divine Right. Versaille would solve the distance maintenance issues you have with being on a peninsula, and if you are lucky you might get both Christianity and Islam. Combine that w/ the Spiral Minaret and you could get a decent mid-game tech lead. Anyways, that's probably a silly idea but most of the good ones have already been covered, so I figured what the heck make a weird suggestion.
An interesting and original suggestion. Forbidden Palace, though, offers the same benefits as Versailles without requiring a wonder-rush or the pursuit of DR. It's also cheaper. I prefer to capture Versailles rather than build it. That pretty much guarantees it's going to be far away and therefore useful.

Your post did make me think that FP will indeed be very handy to aelf in this game. You're absolutely right, he's already finding maintenance costs a problem and if he continues to expand off the peninsula, he'll need a way to lessen their impact. Code of Laws should be a priority before too long.
 
I've played the next round. I'll be posting the update tom... soon :p
 
Why useless?:hmm: I would say that there is a window of opportunity to become "the spiritual leader" of our continent - afaik there is no religion founded yet, so if aelf manages to lightbulb Christianity timely, it should spread like wildfire!

the key word here is yet
this won't last long.

Is that a little spoiler or are you just making a guess?

If we want to, we can probably found Christianity. I guess I'll have to see how things go as I play.

just a guess, I don't have time for shadow games these days. Even less so at immortal level, where you need to check all the cities and all the screens every turn.
Don't sue me if I'm wrong, it was just that I've never seen a game where no religion at all was founded on a continent (except if I found them all :lol:).
 
"build a city to get the stone and rush to Divine Right. Versaille would solve the distance maintenance issues"

and Versaille is double-speeded by marble AFAIK
 
"build a city to get the stone and rush to Divine Right. Versaille would solve the distance maintenance issues"

and Versaille is double-speeded by marble AFAIK

I know. I meant get the stone for the Spiral, because that is the priority...I'm not too concerned about Versaille since the AI never seems to build it, so its pretty much guranteed that the player gets it if the player wants it, and so you wouldn't have to worry about having something to double its production speed. Course, I don't play Immortal so maybe it is alot harder to get Versaille on Immortal.
 
i think he won't emphasize spreading his state religion too much. so religious buildings wonders like SM or U of S are not that useful. no half price temple either
 
No advice to offer at the moment but I'll be subscribing to this thread anyway.

Me too... :mischief:

This is my first post by the way. :D

Keep up the tremendous work guys (taking also Sisiutil's threads into account)!!! :thumbsup:

I have nearly read them all (yours aelf and also Sisiutil's) except for the "Prince" ones.

I just managed to achieve my third win on Monarch :king: ... with Cyrus on an isolated starting location :sad:. But this showed me that my skills really have improved a lot since i had a hard time on Prince when the new patch came out.

Cant wait to see how things will develop... and YES "We shall nevarrr surrendarrr!!!" :goodjob:

So long...
 
Round 3: 775BC - 55BC

After a long time playing on Normal speed, it seems to me that Epic gives me weird dates.

Anyway, as you might expect, I decided on Alphabet first. And I thought that grabbing Philosophy and, with it, Taoism would be good, after which a prophet should be in order for the Taoist shrine. We might just be able to have a monopoly on religion on our continent. Of course, we would have to research Drama first, but I would not have minded saving the GS till then. So that we would get a GS first before a prophet, I ran scientists in York shortly after it whipped a library:

immortal22.jpg


Which would let it generate a GS before Stonehenge could generate its prophet:

immortal21.jpg


After Taoism is founded, the free missionary could go to London first to spread the religion, so that our capital would be able to whip a temple and run a priest to hasten the birth of our prophet next.

It all sounded like a mighty fine plan.

Unfortunately, Taoism was founded in a distant land soon after:

immortal23.jpg


As the birth of a GS in far far away preceded that, it was probably lightbulbed. That's the earliest I've ever seen the AI found it. And that put whoever it was in the Medieval Era while we were still mucking about in the Ancient :eek:

Our good plan in shambles, I decided to let the prophet be born first and fall back on lightbulbing Theology.

Meanwhile, I sent a force to take and raze the barb city on the stone:

immortal24.jpg


Erm, that's more barbs than we could handle, so I had to retreat our forces :lol: We'll come back when we have axemen. Seriously, the barbs on Immortal are no joke.

Our exploring chariot had mapped out the Roman lands, and it was scouting out German territories, when it revealed an interesting detail:

immortal25.jpg


Bismark built the Pyramids. I'm not surprised, but it's especially worrying because his favourite civic is Representation. He would become a force to be reckoned with, at least economically. And Berlin is a little too far to be captured anytime soon.

And, as you can see, Christianity was founded on that turn. Looks like we'll all have to be heathens for a long time more. The other continent is really religion-whoring. Biggest clue that we can expect at least Isabella in the game.

This would make diplomacy more of a touch-and-go on our continent, and the lack of the happiness bonus from religion is a shame. Another sigh of relief that we at least have the Charismatic trait to help us out. We would also be unable to benefit from any of the religious civics :( The only good thing is the folks from the other continent wouldn't automatically hate us on the first meeting, giving us a better chance at choosing which side to take. Maybe that would help with a diplomatic victory.

We discovered Alphabet on the next turn. Only one of our neighbours had Mathematics, so it wasn't available for trading yet. We had to choose which direction to take our research next. We could go straight for CoL, but without many cities before going to war (Caesar has decided to arrest our peaceful expansion onto the mainland us by settling cities near our northern borders), the usefulness of that is really questionable. We couldn't go for Construction yet, and it was still too expensive anyway. That left Metal Casting, which leads to Machinery (a key tech in our Redcoat strategy) and allows the building of forges and the Colossus, as well as being a good trading tech to boot.

It would take a long time to research at our current rate (45 turns). However, there was a good way to really speed it up:

immortal26.jpg


This was on top of running a scientist in York. As London didn't have useful builds anyway, except maybe axemen (which we had enough of for the moment), it seemed like an effective way to dispose of the hammers of the production city.

A few turns later, Mathematics became available for trading:

immortal27.jpg


And we also traded for IW:

immortal28.jpg


Bismark refused to give anything more than IW for it, unfortunately, a first in a long time for me. Well, we could now start clearing the jungles around York and make it more cottageable.

[to be continued in the next post...]
 
[continued from previous post]

With 4 axemen now in tow, it was time to say "Hasta la vista, baby" to the barb city on the rocks:

immortal29.jpg


We lost only one axe and one chariot, which was quite lucky. The surviving axes earned their CRII promotions, which I'm sure would be useful against Caesar.

The city was razed, of course. One of our chariots remained in the area to fogbust so that we wouldn't have to get rid of another barb city in the future.

Then our first GP was born from the Stonehenge:

immortal30.jpg


Lightbulbing Polytheism didn't seem like a good prospect, and we had no shrine to build, so he was settled. The early boost to gpt is always useful. The extra hammers are nice too.

Our exploring chariot, having scouted to the fringe of the German empire, found a neglected goodie hut by the sea, beyond a desert. Yes, I was rooting for a free tech or at least a large amount of gold. Unfortunately, the RNG wasn't too kind:

immortal31.jpg


That amounted to some free xp for our chariot, no more. Maybe a pillaged tile near Cologne, if we're lucky. Oh, well.

The round ended at the discovery of Metal Casting. Here's a look at how advanced we are compared to our neighbours:

immortal32.jpg


Not very. But we have Metal Casting, which should be tradeable for Calendar (forgot to try asking). We might want to wait for another good tech to trade for, though (maybe Monarchy on top of Calendar).

The power graph:

immortal33.jpg


At this stage, we're not far behind while Bismark is leading. Both of these facts are interesting given that Caesar has iron (as you will see). Maybe he's still too busy REXing? If we keep this up, though, it wouldn't be too difficult to win a war against Rome.

We've explored pretty much our whole continent (that one chariot is better than any explorer in history :goodjob:). Here's the map of the southern part, including our land:

immortal34.jpg


As you can see, there's iron near Rome itself. There's also plenty of gems in Roman territory, as well as some ivory. The RNG is so kind.

The northern (German) part:

immortal35.jpg


Bismark has a lot of not so good land. He's not a very strong AI anyway, so he can probably wait. Not sure if Pyramids can alter his performance.

So what now? It seems pretty clear that war against Caesar is necessary soon. He is in our way, and we could do with some of his gems ;) To that effect, I think heading for Construction next makes sense. Then, while building an army of mainly catapults and elephants, we can research towards CoL, which would ideally be discovered by the end of the first war. We should be able to backfill a little by tech trading in the meantime.

For now, I think our cities should try and get forges up asap (they help make up for the lack of OR). Nottingham has decent production, so it could probably build the Colossus after that. It's not a wonderful wonder (pardon the pun), but we're sitting on quite poor land, so every little bit would help. Anyway, a settler is one turn from being complete in York. I think we should settle stone/sheep/copper city (2W of copper) next. What do you think? There would be room for another city that could work the copper and crabs.

This game doesn't look like it's going to be easy.
 

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I agree on getting forges up and preparing for war against caesar. but praetorian are going to be really tough to handle at this stage. I'd settle that stone/copper city and fill in your part of the world. you'll need the extra cities to keep up militarily with caesar methinks.

how are diplo relations between bismark and caesar? is bismark a potential ally or enemy??

I hope the next round is a long one, covering REX if you do so and the beginning of the war with caesar.

NaZ
 
Definitely Construction now. I see some Spices near Neapolis - given that Caesar has the Calendar, you may get lucky and have him build a Plantation for you. Captured cities will have a Monument immediately, so you'd gain control of a happy resource fairly soon. And then there are the Gems that are useful.

Geographically, I'd say you could take Ravenna, Neapolis and Antium in the first war. The problem with that approach, though, is that it will leave Iron in Caesar's possession for the second war... and Praetorians are annoying evne if he's reduced to a smaller size.
 
Catapults, shock elephants (need stables) and CR axemen should be able to take care of Praetorians. Anyway, I believe bow and arrow is still the AI's defensive weapon of choice.
 
Off topic:
He{Bismarck}'s not a very strong AI anyway, so he can probably wait.

I generally find Bismarck quite strong (Vanilla though), as he usually can grow quite big, and gets representation early 50% of the time. Representation + all the specialists the AI likes to run + philosophical is pretty powerful.
 
I generally find Bismarck quite strong (Vanilla though), as he usually can grow quite big, and gets representation early 50% of the time. Representation + all the specialists the AI likes to run + philosophical is pretty powerful.

You're mistaking him for Peter.
 
The AI Romans never seem to build enough Praetorians. You don't have iron, but you do have copper for Axemen, and with their +50% bonus versus melee units they can ruin a Praet's day. So the Construction path leading to an attack on Caesar sounds like a plan. I'd try to get that iron north of Neapolis connected to a city so you can bring CR Swordsmen into play.

I'm surprised you haven't expanded onto the rest of your peninsula yet. Looks like there's room for 2-3 more cities there with decent food and production. Despite the initial maintenance costs they'd help with research and they'd also be able to build units for the war.

With wine nearby and no religions, I'd say Monarchy is a very high priority tech for much-needed happiness. Here's a plan on how to get it quickly--it's a little risky, but it could work. Check to see if either Bismarck or Caesar are running Hereditary Rule. If one is and the other isn't, trade Metal Casting to the one who isn't running HR and therefore probably doesn't have Monarchy yet. Get Calendar and either Meditation or Polytheism for it. Now research Priesthood as quickly as possible (it's cheap). You'll then have the pre-reqs for Monarchy. Trade MC for it and whatever else you can get with the other guy.

The risky part is that your first trading partner may trade MC before you're done with Priesthood. But I think it's worth a shot.
 
Ouch! No religion on a continent at all - my shadow game was not quite so harsh :eek: At least lets hope that another continent has Buddhist Isabella vs Hinduist Brennus or smth :lol:

I agree with Construction as next tech priority while backfilling your peninsula. Also, Sisiutil's plan for getting Monarchy sounds viable enough.
However, I would not place a city 2W of Copper, but rather 1S (to work Copper, Stone and Crabs). Another city could then be placed 1NE of Sheep (to work Wineries).

Cats, War Eles and CR Axemen should be able to defeat Rome!
 
As usual, I'm of only limited use right now. :) I agree with Sisiutil that going to HR is going to be a much higher priority civic change than usual for the extra happiness, even though you're charismatic. I like his trading-for-monarchy scheme, too, by the way.

And I have to agree with our esteemed Estonian colleague, I like 1S better for Cuprimineralocrustacea (also known as copper stone crabtown) - it's got a nice mix, being a coastal city with crabby food goodness and excellent production from the stone/copper. I don't know if you'll need a navy this game, but you can certainly crank one out with that city if you need to. And it leaves sheepwine with enough food to work some of those hills effectively.
 
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