The Emperor Masters' Challenge 4 (Warlords v.208)

No, no, I was talking about a subsequent game, not a concurrent one :p I'm no sadist, lol ;)

I don't think Napoleon would defeat Saladin. Saladin IS protective afterall. At the very least, it would really slow Nappy down and cost him a lot to take out Saladin. At that point you should be really ahead in tech, able to handle whatever he throws at you.


Heh - there's the new Emperor's Challenge - 2 games at once! :eek:

My Ann Landers: I think futurehermit's right that Saladin would probably be able to hold his own against Nappy even if you didn't turn on him. I'd try and do it very soon though, before Nap's musketeers start showing up. The AI still enjoys its UU's, after all. :rolleyes:
 
just one question. Why didnt you hire two more scientists in capital, instead of working two static water tiles?
 
I'd take Nationalism and the marble deal. Then burn the GS on Printing Press and that, with the golden age, will be a big boost. Oh yeah, Saladin can become a real pain if he gets going. High culture with religion and protective make for annoying and hard wars. So not stirring him up gets my vote.

PS: 10 bux that Nappy will backstab, if you refuse more techs or fall behind in power.
 
^^that's why i think bribing him to go after saladin is the best idea if we want to stay peaceful. if they're fighting each other, they're not fighting us. we don't want to fight saladin because he's a pita to fight and we can't trust nappy at all...
 
Especially Yaroslavl. St Petersburg just went into revolt a few turns earlier, thanks to that city's culture. What's up with that, anyway? I thought conquered cities can't flip back to your enemy? Is this another one of those screwed up changes they implemented with the patch?

Gotta get the cultural pressure off St. Pete's. Yes, cities can flip back. I've always had that happen, so I don't think it's anything new.

No conquered Cities can not flip back to your enemy, If your conquered city is being pressured by your enemies culture, it just constantly goes in and out revolt ALL THE TIME (it NEVER flips) unless you use your own culture to fight off your enemy's culture.
The only time where your conquered city's flip back to your enemy is when you allow it on custom games.
 
No conquered Cities can not flip back to your enemy, If your conquered city is being pressured by your enemies culture, it just constantly goes in and out revolt ALL THE TIME (it NEVER flips) unless you use your own culture to fight off your enemy's culture.
The only time where your conquered city's flip back to your enemy is when you allow it on custom games.
What about a city captured from another civ? Can it flip to a different (obviously nearby) civ? Or do captured cities just never flip, ever, period?
 
What about a city captured from another civ? Can it flip to a different (obviously nearby) civ? Or do captured cities just never flip, ever, period?

That's one thing that I think they implemented really poorly. If you capture a city that's near a third civ, and the city isn't inside the culture of any of the original civ's cities, any revolts go towards the third civ, and it will flip after the second one. That means that it's very very hard to hang onto a city on the border; it's harder than it should be.
 
I think the trick here will be to get Nappy and Sally into a long war of attrition. You do not have many positive modifiers with Sally so I think your idea of keeping him happy is best. I played a game recently with him as a neighbour and I cannot stress this point too much; keep him on your side. Any war with him would be foolish because he has gunpowder and the protective trait. Consider conversion to Buddhism.

My inclination would be to to go the Nationalism>Constitution>Democracy route with the idea of adopting Emancipation. Go for the Taj Mahal and a Golden Age. Trade elephants for marble with Nappy. If you do end up in a war Nationhood would help, so would Rifling and I would go for Printing and Replacement Parts after Democracy.

Your army is weak, which is dangerous with Sally capable of making his UU and Nappy on the verge of being able to create his.

I would put the forge on hold in Pusan. The city is unhealthy; it does not need to be worse. Build a harbour there. The extra trade route will help your economy too.

I think war is inevitable in Civ IV on the higher levels but I see that as more a reflection of what is really going on anyway. However war needs to be quick and decisive; otherwise it will be costly. As a civilization develops diplomacy becomes more important; the trick is to stay out of war or at least fight when the odds are overwhelmingly in your favour.
 
What about a city captured from another civ? Can it flip to a different (obviously nearby) civ? Or do captured cities just never flip, ever, period?

Yes, it can. It just can't flip back to the original owner from whom you took it.
 
Re: flipping. That's strange, I swear I've had this happen before, at least in vanilla. Did it ever happen and if so, when was it changed?
 
Re: flipping. That's strange, I swear I've had this happen before, at least in vanilla. Did it ever happen and if so, when was it changed?

3 possibilities :
- you checked the option (or played a GotM or a SG with this option checked) allowing the backflip
- the city you remember flipped to a third civ (= not the initial owner)
- you remember the permanent revolt, and have it mixed up with a flip

Anyway, it never changed.

edit : on a similar note, I had the impression that you could capture great people in warlords, but it never happened again...
 
just one question. Why didnt you hire two more scientists in capital, instead of working two static water tiles?

To grow, for now? Whenever further growth was harmful, I ran scientists.

I read what your guys have suggested. However, I am experiencing some technical problems on these forums, so I can't comment much right now. To put it simply, I agree with the majority. I hope the problems disappear before I post the next update.
 
Ok i tought you didn't hire them at all.... I was looking at 520 ad capital picture. I assume you hired both scientists after you got to size 9?
I'm just looking at pic i didnt open the file.....
 
First off thanks Aelf for this thread--great concept.

I always think it's difficult to adopt a "sometimes" strategy restriction--is finishing off Peter acceptable under the goals? If so, I would do it and bribe Nap into war w/Sal. Peter is likely to become someone else's vassal--then you're stuck with the cultural problems much longer.

Getting the other two to war seems like a good idea--Sal should be able to hold his own and -1 is not that big a deal.
 
I've played the next round. I'll be posting the update today. Unfortunately, I'm still unable to load the forum pages properly most of the time, which partly explains my relatively low activity here recently. It shouldn't affect the update, though.
 
Round 6: 1080AD - 1280AD

Having won the Liberalism race, we didn't have such a clear goal this round. Instead, I pursued whichever short-term objective was expedient. Well, there's the 2nd war to take out Peter, which we would want to undertake as soon as possible and which we would have to prepare for. That might be the exception.

First, I made the tech trade with Saladin:

Emperor85.jpg


With Liberalism in the bag, we needn't worry about Saladin being more advanced than us for some time. Besides, we're going to get Nappy to declare a devastating war on him, right? ;) I think this trade could only benefit us.

With Optics traded for, the way was paved for grabbing Astronomy with Liberalism:

Emperor86.jpg


So what happened to wanting to build the Taj? Well, I must confess the pain of failing to grab a wonder was too new. Without Industrious, I am no longer confident of building more than one wonder in a game (maybe two, depending on the situation), especially this late and without a significant tech lead. Even with marble from Napoleon to help us, I suspect some wonder-hogging civ like Saladin's would somehow manage to build the Taj first (and for all we know someone on the other continent might already have Nationalism). Two hundred gold or less would hardly make up for turns of wasted production at this stage. There were just too many other things we could be building at the capital with its Bureaucracy bonus (including units to use against Peter).

Grabbing Astronomy, besides allowing us to build observatories, would allow us to have trans-ocean trade routes early, which would benefit our economy. Of course, this would require us to establish contact with the other continent, but I think we should do so asap anyway to get a feel of the global diplomatic situation (important for a peaceful future). So, to accomplish this, Seoul built a caravel next. With luck, we might even win the circumnavigation bonus, although it's not a big deal in this game.

Now that we had Liberalism and Astronomy, what next? Remember the GS we had waiting in the capital? He could lightbulb Printing Press, so that was the tech I decided to research next:

Emperor87.jpg


Getting extra commerce from villages and towns for 3 turns of normal research is a good deal, don't you think? And the earlier the better.

Before that, though, since we're no longer racing to a tech or to a wonder, I decided to go through a turn of anarchy to adopt Buddhism:

Emperor88.jpg


This would improve relations with our neigbours (especially Saladin, who immediately became Pleased), reducing the chances that we would be at the receiving end of a sneak attack. And, if we get our way, Saladin and Napoleon would soon be embroiled in a war against each other, thereby further reducing the chances of us getting attacked by either of them.

Then I made another tech deal with Saladin:

Emperor89.jpg


Banking would give us access to Economics. Although the free GM had probably been grabbed by someone, Free Market and Astronomy have good synergy.

However, I didn't start researching Economics immediately. We're not Spiritual so, to minimize time spent in anarchy, it would be advisable to switch civics in pairs when playing on Normal speed (unless your empire is too big, in which case it would take 2 turns of anarchy to switch two). To do this, we would switch to Free Spech and Free Market at the same time. But that would remove Bureaucracy's production bonus in Seoul, and since our capital could use a Seowon and an observatory soon, I decided to give it time to build these and researched Nationalism first.

Our caravel reached the other continent and we met our first overseas civ:

Emperor90.jpg


Gandhi's quite advanced. Indeed, he had Nationalism before us, possibly even before we got Liberalism. I traded Liberalism for Music, gold and his world map immediately. It wasn't a terribly good deal, I know, but I thought it was important to know what the other continent looked like so we could establish contact with the other civs quickly and not have spend turns asking our caravel to wander about looking for them. It would also increase our chances of winning the circumnavigation race.

Once Saladin got Printing Press himself, I thought the time was ripe to instigate a war:

Emperor91.jpg


Now Napoleon had his own (improved) muskets. Surely he would have no problem at least fending off Arabian units.

We got a -1 from Saladin for this, which put him back to Cautious. But he should become Pleased again soon due to the accumulating shared religion bonus. That's the advantage when your rival is too obsessed with religion :p

We met the other two overseas civs successively:

Emperor92.jpg


Emperor93.jpg


Huayna was slightly more advanced than us, and he's angry because we traded with Gandhi, his religious enemy, before we even met him :crazyeye: Psycho AI. Did they ever think of changing this aspect of it?

Ramesses was nowhere near us in terms of tech. Poor guy. He's the lesser of the two Industrious civs and Huayna (who also has the Financial trait) has been hogging the wonders and reaping the benefits. And, surprisingly, despite being Hindu like Gandhi, he's on quite good terms with the latter. Damn. I would really have preferred hostile relations between HC and both of his neighbours. Would make him easier to contain in the future. Do you think we could engineer such a situation?

I signed Open Borders with all three of them. Unfortunately, they were running Mercantilism, so we wouldn't getting trade routes with them for some time. I hope they realise the benefits of a laissez-faire economy soon ;)

And then, having built several more units for another invasion, it was time for renewed hostilities with Peter:

Emperor94.jpg


We should be able to capture at least 3 more of cities (the better ones) in this war. But he might slow us down with relatively large numbers of defenders in his cities. Let's see what the Russians can do.

With this, I end the first part of the update. The second part will be posted tonight.

[to be continued...]
 
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