The Immortal Challenge 2: For the Fatherland

32,000+ views suggest some interest in the series. I reckon Sisiutil is likely to stay on monarch for a few more games (having hit a speed bump in his current game) so there is still a niche for an emperor level Audience Participation Game.
Obviously it takes a lot of time and energy to run a thread like this so its really down to Aelf.
 
Anyway, I'm interested in thinking ahead. Should we play another game with Freddy or move on? If we play again, should it be in another thread? Also, somebody has mentioned going back to Emperor instead of continuing on Immortal. Well, now that I've seen what might happen quite often on Immortal, I'm a little apprehensive about going on at this level. It's all very well to learn from a loss, but without results it's not going to mean anything at the end of the day. And these threads require a lot of time and effort. Perhaps I need time to improve myself first. I don't see a point in going back to Emperor, though. The ALCs will be there soon anyway. It's either we continue, or we stop here, at least for now.

Maybe the reason it was so hard this game was the SE attempt, and you should see the loss in light of the strategy at start (and some unluckiness).

I like having this thread played at high levels, it's a greater learning experience cause of it. So i don't think you should move down ;)

I would like to see some more aggressive games, where you aim for domination/conquest wins, this might make it easier also until you warm up at this level properly. So maybe do a easy leader next? Hannibal, Napoleon, Ragnar, Shaka or one of the Caesars are all awesome warriors and great at the start of a harder difficulty level. (these are just my personal favourites, i know some of you prefer spiritual leaders) :D

Don't get beat down on just the first loss on Immortal.. i mean... it's supposed to be hard... :lol:
 
Anyway, I'm interested in thinking ahead. Should we play another game with Freddy or move on? If we play again, should it be in another thread? Also, somebody has mentioned going back to Emperor instead of continuing on Immortal. Well, now that I've seen what might happen quite often on Immortal, I'm a little apprehensive about going on at this level. It's all very well to learn from a loss, but without results it's not going to mean anything at the end of the day. And these threads require a lot of time and effort. Perhaps I need time to improve myself first. I don't see a point in going back to Emperor, though. The ALCs will be there soon anyway. It's either we continue, or we stop here, at least for now.

Aelf, I for one would like to see you continue on Immortal. Seems you have Emperor pretty well figured out already. Your style of play is a ways different from my own & I think I can learn a lot by observing another player take a different approach to Immortal games than I would.

You shouldn't be down on yourself for this loss. Immortal is meant to be hard to beat. Heck, at least you're batting .500 on Immortal. I'm probably somewhere around the Mendoza line myself. :)
 
Personally, I am glad that this turned out to be difficult. It has reassured me that I am not completely hopeless when I find this level to be difficult.
 
Sorry, guys. My computer was infected by a malicious program and I spent tonight trying to remove it. It's gone now, thankfully. I'll probably post the update tomorrow morning, or at least one part.

Anyway, I'm sorry that this game didn't turn out well. I think an Internet space victory, as some of you suggested, might have been possible, but I wouldn't want to win without getting the chance to use our UU. Where's the fun in that? :p Anyway, personally, I did set off with domination in mind. Perhaps I would have done some things differently from mid-game onwards if space was seriously on the cards.

With regards to the next game, I had planned a game with Churchill. Now I'm not so sure. I was a lot more confident while we were conquering the Americans when I thought of the idea. What do you guys think of Churchill? He doesn't strike me as a particularly powerful leader in Civ4, though Charismatic would help.
 
With regards to the next game, I had planned a game with Churchill. Now I'm not so sure. I was a lot more confident while we were conquering the Americans when I thought of the idea. What do you guys think of Churchill? He doesn't strike me as a particularly powerful leader in Civ4, though Charismatic would help.
I think you should save Churchill for later, when you've gotten more Immortal wins under your belt. While Protective will give you awesome Redcoats, it's a pretty weak trait overall for single-player games.

Go ahead and take one of the stronger leaders. I don't think anyone will fault you for it. Hell, play Rome. It'll help you get your confidence back :)

Also, I think it's more important to pursue victory "at all costs" than to play specifically to highlight UUs and leader traits. The ALC threads are focused on that anyhow.

My 2c
 
Wow. And I was actually whining about this game being unchallenging. I am officially eating my words. As penance I will play a deity game, standard settings, through the inevitable humiliating defeat. :eek:

For what it's worth, I don't see how you could have played more aggressively and I know you've expressed a distaste for total warmongering in the past. I just chalk this one up to bad luck.

Do you plan to switch to Beyond the Sword when it comes out? If so, I suggest one or two more IMCs followed by a short break. Then you can move back down to emperor or even monarch and work your way back up.
 
Also, I think it's more important to pursue victory "at all costs" than to play specifically to highlight UUs and leader traits. The ALC threads are focused on that anyhow.

Well, it's not really "at all costs". I thought our UU was in quite a convenient position, actually. Well, it turns out that at this level you can never know.

For what it's worth, I don't see how you could have played more aggressively and I know you've expressed a distaste for total warmongering in the past. I just chalk this one up to bad luck.

Hey, I'm quite open-minded with it comes to Immortal Challenges. In fact, we played the total warmonger in this game. And as they say, "Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword." We totally lived up to it ;)
 
Personally, I am glad that this turned out to be difficult. It has reassured me that I am not completely hopeless when I find this level to be difficult.

Exactly what I had in my mind! :)

Aelf please continue Immortal challenges - let ALC series handle easier games. It was just a game with suboptimal circumstances, you really can't win every game on immortal. Nice try! :goodjob:
 
well, i vote to try Brennus next IMC. his trait is so good. Charismatic makes war easier and spiritual is much better in higher level and normal speed. i feel that in higher level normal speed, u just can't rely on your UU doing anything amazing. Charismatic makes stronger unit through the game.
 
Endgame: 1685AD - 1896AD (Part1)

First, we made a switch back to Free Speech to help catch up:

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Rifling was the next tech we researched so that we could build Infantry. It was followed by Railroads, Combustion, Astronomy, Scientific Method, Physics, Electricity and Industrialism, in that order. We went Railroads -> Combustion first to delay the obsolesence of the GL.

Our next GP:

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Then Louis declared war:

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I guess he wanted revenge for what we did to him in the previous game :p

I switched civics to Nationalism, just in case:

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The AI is none too good at overseas wars, but Louis had a high power rating and could land his troops anywhere. And, intelligently enough, he choose to make landfall at a weak spot:

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He had just enough cavalry to take the city. But as you can see, we quickly took it back from him.

In the midst of war, we got our next GP:

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We used all the GS's we had to lightbulb techs along the way, namely Scientific Method and Physics.

And killing off whatever cavalry/infantry force Louis landed (they started landing beside Berlin) gave us another GG:

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This one was settled in Hamburg, our military city.

Using our GE to rush build the last bit, we got the wonder that we were aiming for:

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Now Hamburg could almost build level 3 units off the bat (9/10 exp). And it keeps the wonder off the hands of Brennus.

Our next GP was a GM:

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He could be used for a trade mission and fund some upgrades and deficit research. Quite suitable for our needs.

Speaking of our next enemy, he was proving to have the material:

immortal150.jpg


Err... Ok. In light of us getting a GM, this is peanuts, so I obliged him to delay the war, for which we were not yet ready. Brennus already had Assembly Line, by the way. We had to hurry.

[to be continued]
 
Immortal Hannibal fractal/pangea. Nod, plz, thx.
 
70 gold to get +1 diplomatically with Brennus is a bargain. I wish The AI would demand tribute like that more often ;)
 
Of course I understand why Aelf wants to stop. It's disheartening. At least on immortal you should win any non-isolated start.

As for going back down to emperor... I believe he has already proven his skill playing immortal. Let him step down to emperor, so there'll be some variety in his games other than perpetual warfare.
 
Endgame: 1685AD - 1896AD (Part2)

Our GM arrived at Cuzco down south, which offered 200 more gold for a trade mission than Bibracte:

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Anyway, by now our military production was almost in full swing, with our core cities building at least 2 infantries out of 3 builds. I decided to make a civic change so that Hamburg could finally build level 3 units:

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The switch would also benefit the other cities, although less directly.

And guess what? We got another GM:

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Now we're rich :D Take your 70 gold, Brennus. You can give it to the beggars.

Then Barcelona had a Spanish revolt :eek:

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After all this time? I guess with the abandonment of Free Speech, the Spanish border had finally crept up to the city. Thankfully, the border shifted back soon after and the problem never occured again.

By the way, we researched Artillery after Industrialism. Brennus did build tons of SAM infantry, so artillery would be very important.

The little war against Louis was going well so far. We suffered little to no WW, but he must be having a horrendous problem with it, after losing so many units. However, he eventually came with a surprise:

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We didn't have enough Panzers yet to counter that stack without suffering significant losses and infrastructural damage. I had to sue for peace:

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He never dropped the claim on that stupid city. I had to give it to him, though. In any case, we were going to engage in a massive war soon and couldn't afford the distraction. Robber peace, but necessary.

After Artillery, we spent 2 turns researching Fascism, after we which we made the switch to Police State:

immortal157.jpg


That would help us with our troop buildup and mitigate WW later. We also started on Mount Rushmore in Munich. The date for declaration of war would be on its completion 6 turns later. I considered waiting for nukes, but I decided that it would be too late. We had to get Fission and Rocketry and build the Manhattan Project and the ICBMs. And what's to stop Brennus from building his own nukes? Getting bombers would take too long as well. Better attack soon, while our enemy still didn't have mech infantry (which are very good at intercepting aircraft, I might add).

Anyway, as we might have expected, Louis didn't actually get a good end of the bargain:

immortal158.jpg


He refused to garrison anything in the city for a long time. Maybe the AI knows when a city might flip anytime?

You can also see how many units we had accumulated by then. We had more on the way. A lot of the infantry units were drafted from our cities. Almost all our cities got the draft.

A few turns later, it was time:

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I stationed the bulk of our army in New York, which commanded a central position along the common border with Brennus. The plan was to wage a low-WW war of attrition within our borders. When we had taken enough Celtic units down, we would then go on the offensive and hopefully mop the floor.

[to be continued]
 
Lurker post:

If you're asking what people would prefer to read, I'd put my vote towards another Immortal attempt. :)

P.S I've really enjoyed all your 'Challenge' threads to date.
 
Endgame: 1685AD - 1896AD (Part3)

War was declared. Brennus outdid my expectations by sending a huge stack to invade us right away:

immortal160.jpg


Great! Time to see Clausewitz in action. First, we threw almost all our artillery at the stack for some good collateral damage. Then our infantry proceeded with their human wave assaults. Only after that did our Panzers strike. We were saving as many of them as possible for another stack that was right behind this one. We annihillated this stack, although we lost more 70 and 80+% battles than we should.

On the next turn, it was round two:

immortal161.jpg


But first, we used the GG we got from round one to promote a bunch of units that were soon due for promotion. This also had the effect of auto-healing them, making at least some of them ready for another attack. Of course, we had a lot more reserves waiting in New York for the initial strikes. Alright, boys, let's go! We threw two artillery at enemy, and then our Panzers moved in. This stack wasn't as big as the first one and was easily annihillated.

I thought we were doing well at this point. Unfortunately, Brennus got mech infantry. Still, I thought it wouldn't matter if we had a lot of artillery. So we built more of those, let our troops heal for a few turns and then went on the offensive. But Brennus proved that he still had a lot of fight in him. He threw as many units at our stack as he could get: artillery, mech infantry, tanks and SAM infantry. At the cost of a large number of our troops, we managed to capture a Celtic city:

immortal162.jpg


But this was a hollow victory, since not only were our crack troops battered (75% of them in total had died after another Celtic counterattack on the city), the war went even more badly at Washington. Brennus brought a lot artillery, marines, SAM infantry and - worst of all - mech infantry up to the city and eventually overwhelmed our stalwart defenders:

immortal163.jpg


By then we were almost out of troops. It was difficult even to deal with the pillagers around our border cities. The war was hopeless. We had to sue for peace:

immortal164.jpg


It was clear that the game was lost. Brennus was well on his way to winning the space race. He suffered more from the war, but he was still technologically superior and could rebuild faster than we did (higher mfg rating). Even if we could possibly win a wrestling match with him in the future, it would be far too late.

Louis had built the UN and was the more popular candidate, so instead of enduring any more of this pain, I opted for an honourable exit:

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I thought we had something going at the beginning of the war. Alas, it was just an illusion. The Fatherland was defeated. The German Empire was not to be.

Here's the power graph:

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And the production graph:

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And our disgraceful score:

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That's all, folks.

Below is a save for those who wish to give it a try. It's made on the turn Artillery was discovered (since some of you might choose to tech up some more instead of going for Police State first). Good luck!
 

Attachments

Well played anyway aelf, i had similar problems fighting a modern war in Snaaty´s isolated start thread, the enemey just keeps on going at you slaughtering your troops and his own, especially the AI artillery is dangerous. I think you need flight to fight these kinds of wars successfully so you can pillage the roads to your troops with helicopters and can bombard the enemy cities relatively savely with bombers. It´s clear that there was no time to do that in this game.
 
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