SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

This doesn't make any sense

How the HELL was Hamm allowed to DoW shaka? He had just signed a peace treaty. Is this a consequence of the bug?
 
First thought is to infect Borsippa with Hindu, revolt the city while Shaka is bombarding it once again, and then watch it get steamrolled by the biggest stack in the universe. That should get Shaka a reliable Hindu vote.
 
bcool said:
This doesn't make any sense

How the HELL was Hamm allowed to DoW shaka? He had just signed a peace treaty. Is this a consequence of the bug?
Click to expand...

I too thought GhostTown was 100% safe from Hamma. Guess not :cry:.

Maybe it is that peace treaty on top of a peace treaty bug at work.

None of the Hammarugawa Hindu spread or flips occured yet, so at least we avoided that nightmare scenario. We can still try for the silver.
 
I'm uploading the save. I will wait 5 minutes so we don't upload the same save.

uploaded

Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1030 AD to 1050 AD:

Turn 163, 1030 AD: Delhi has become unhappy.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Deergold City can hurry Bank for 4⇴ with 29ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: SheepTown can hurry Forge for 3⇴ with 24ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: CowTown can hurry Aqueduct for 3⇴ with 49ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 11 turns.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Crabsville can hurry Barracks for 1⇴ with 16ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Island can hurry Courthouse for 3⇴ with 9ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 16 turns.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: FishTown can hurry Longbowman for 2⇴ with 36ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hammuragawa has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa has 120 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Mansagawa has 8 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa has 6 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hammuragawa will trade Literature
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Tokugawa has 110 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Mansagawa has 70 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Huayanagawa has 70 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hammuragawa has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa has 120 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Genghigawa has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Mansagawa has 8 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa has 7 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa has 6 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hatsegawa refuses to talk.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: You are the worst enemy of Hatsegawa, Elizagawa, Shakagawa.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa is the worst enemy of Tokugawa.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa is the worst enemy of Hammuragawa.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hammuragawa will trade Literature
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa will trade Literature, Philosophy
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Will Trade Map: Elizagawa, Shakagawa
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Elizagawa, Shakagawa
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Upon completing the mission the Spy 7 (SheepTown) has returned safely to Delhi.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Deergold City) (5.00) vs Shakagawa's Longbowman (7.50)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Combat Odds: 18.6%
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Your Catapult 1 (Deergold City) has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Deergold City) is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Deergold City) is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Deergold City) is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Deergold City) is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Deergold City) is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman has defeated Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Deergold City)!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Your Catapult 1 (Deergold City) has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 2 (Delhi) (5.00) vs Shakagawa's Longbowman (6.82)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Combat Odds: 22.9%
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Your Catapult 2 (Delhi) has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 2 (Delhi) is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 16 (75/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 16 (59/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 16 (43/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 16 (27/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Your Catapult 2 (Delhi) has withdrawn from combat with a Longbowman!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 3 (Deergold City) (5.00) vs Shakagawa's Longbowman (5.62)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Combat Odds: 62.1%
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Your Catapult 3 (Deergold City) has caused collateral damage! (2 Units)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 3 (Deergold City) is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 3 (Deergold City) is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 17 (58/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 17 (41/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Your Catapult 3 (Deergold City) has withdrawn from combat with a Longbowman!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 1 (SheepTown) (8.00) vs Shakagawa's Longbowman (4.38)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Combat Odds: 95.5%
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 24 (49/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 24 (25/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 1 (SheepTown) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 24 (1/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 1 (SheepTown) has defeated Shakagawa's Longbowman!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Your Maceman 1 (SheepTown) has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 3 (Deergold City) (8.00) vs Shakagawa's Longbowman (1.87)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 3 (Deergold City) has defeated Shakagawa's Longbowman!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Your Maceman 3 (Deergold City) has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 4 (Delhi) (7.76) vs Shakagawa's Longbowman (1.87)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 4 (Delhi) is hit for 15 (82/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Longbowman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 4 (Delhi) has defeated Shakagawa's Longbowman!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Your Maceman 4 (Delhi) has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Spearman 3 (CowTown) (4.40) vs Shakagawa's Chariot (1.40)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: (Combat: -100%)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Spearman 3 (CowTown) is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Chariot is hit for 30 (37/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Chariot is hit for 30 (7/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Spearman 3 (CowTown) is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Spearman 3 (CowTown) is hit for 12 (64/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa's Chariot is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Gandhi's Spearman 3 (CowTown) has defeated Shakagawa's Chariot!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Your Spearman 3 (CowTown) has destroyed a Chariot!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: You have captured Bulawayo!!!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hinduism has spread in Bulawayo.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Tokugawa has 110 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Mansagawa has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Huayanagawa has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hammuragawa has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa has 120 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Genghigawa has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa has 7 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa has 5 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hatsegawa refuses to talk.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: You are the worst enemy of Hatsegawa, Elizagawa, Shakagawa.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa is the worst enemy of Tokugawa.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa is the worst enemy of Hammuragawa.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hammuragawa will trade Literature
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa will trade Literature, Philosophy
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Will Trade Map: Elizagawa, Shakagawa
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Elizagawa, Shakagawa
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Tokugawa has 110 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Mansagawa has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Huayanagawa has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hammuragawa has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa has 120 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Genghigawa has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa has 7 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa has 5 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hatsegawa refuses to talk.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: You are the worst enemy of Hatsegawa, Elizagawa, Shakagawa.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa is the worst enemy of Tokugawa.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Shakagawa is the worst enemy of Hammuragawa.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hammuragawa will trade Literature
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Elizagawa will trade Literature, Philosophy
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Will Trade Map: Elizagawa, Shakagawa
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Elizagawa, Shakagawa
Turn 163, 1030 AD: You have made peace with Shakagawa!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Hammuragawa has made peace with Shakagawa!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: SheepTown will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: You have trained Hindu Missionary in Deergold City. Work has now begun on a Bank.
Turn 163, 1030 AD: A Indian revolt has taken place in Trojan Horse!

Turn 164, 1040 AD: Delhi has become happy.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: SheepTown can hurry Maceman for 2⇴ with 22ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: CowTown can hurry Maceman for 2⇴ with 32ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: PigsGems will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: PigsGems can hurry Spy for 1⇴ with 20ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 12 turns.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Crabsville can hurry Maceman for 2⇴ with 16ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: FishTown can hurry Spy for 1⇴ with 16ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Huayanagawa has 12 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Hammuragawa has no worst enemy.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Hammuragawa is the worst enemy of Shakagawa.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Elizagawa will trade Nationalism
Turn 164, 1040 AD: You have made peace with Elizagawa!
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Elizagawa has made peace with Tokugawa!
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Deergold City will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: PigsGems will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Island II will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Tokugawa has 110 gold available for trade.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Mansagawa has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Huayanagawa has 120 gold available for trade.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Hammuragawa has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Shakagawa has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Genghigawa has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Huayanagawa has 12 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Elizagawa has 8 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Shakagawa has 6 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Hatsegawa refuses to talk.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: You are the worst enemy of Hatsegawa, Elizagawa.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Hammuragawa is the worst enemy of Shakagawa.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Elizagawa is the worst enemy of Tokugawa.
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Hammuragawa will trade Literature
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Tokugawa has completed University of Sankore!
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Cyrusgawa has declared war on Shakagawa!
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Hammuragawa has declared war on Shakagawa!
Turn 164, 1040 AD: GhostTown (Shakagawa) has been captured by the Babylonian Empire!!!
Turn 164, 1040 AD: Rabbi Akiva (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 164, 1040 AD: A Indian revolt has taken place in LizTown!

Turn 165, 1050 AD: Delhi has become happy.
Turn 165, 1050 AD: Deergold City can hurry Bank for 3⇴ with 45ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 165, 1050 AD: Elizagawa has 70 gold available for trade.
Turn 165, 1050 AD: Mansagawa has 7 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 165, 1050 AD: Tokugawa has no worst enemy.

You may wish to copy it to Notepad for reference when you write your turn set post. It includes any entries you added with the in-game Chat facility
Click to expand...
 
bcool said:
Why would Hamm have 2 peace treaties with Shaka? He was just at war with him, so the peace would form the one and only peace treaty.
Click to expand...

Oh ya. Maybe purchasing peace between 2 civs is actually a cease fire? We might have discovered something no one ever knew about before.
 
Cyrus is willing to negotiate peace with Shaka, Hammu is not. So I think Hammu has bribed Cyrus in.

We should have taken only a cease fire with Shaka... edit: Maybe. Not sure if we could have done cease fire, then peace from Shaka with Hammu for techs plus GT.

Anyway... Shaka's SoD only has one treb, so I reckon his chances of taking Borsippa are remote, even if we guess the correct turn to revolt Borsippa, and it's still in revolt during Shaka's IBT turn.

If we get Hammsville back from Hammu in a trade, is there any chance he might negotiate GT away as well? Or will we just not have enough culture there?

Bulawayo stack should teleport to Cyrus lands, where we can wait to see Bulawayo's fate.

I expect our best chance to post a win is to arrange to conquer Nobamba by T184, infect and gift back to Shaka. We should infect Borsippa with Hinduism on the off-chance Shaka gets it together and conquers Borsippa by T174. We want another spy sent to Bulawayo, and two spies for Nobamba, and ~700 EPs on Shaka.

And we have to hope GenghisGift or Akhe (after possible Memphis border pop) doesn't flip to Hatse. Try to flip Huyana to Hinduism with our two western spies, so that Akhe puts out some culture?
 
bcool said:
I'm uploading the save. I will wait 5 minutes so we don't upload the same save.

uploaded

Click to expand...

Very well, I will take down the linked save then.

Here is the Buffy Log. It shows something very weird after I traded Divine Right to Hammarugawa to make peace with Shakagawa. It says Cyrusgawa has declared peace with Shakagawa even though I know they weren't at war. :confused: It also says T164 Hammarugawa and Toku have signed a peace treaty, but I know it was actually Elizagawa and Toku :confused:

Spoiler :
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 163/500 (1030 AD) [19-May-2012 23:58:05]
Gandhi (India) and Shakagawa (Zululand) have signed a peace treaty
Hinduism has been removed: GhostTown
GhostTown lost
Hinduism has spread: GhostTown (Zulu Empire)
Tech traded to Hammuragawa (Babylon): Divine Right
Cyrusgawa (Persia) and Shakagawa (Zululand) have signed a peace treaty
Maceman 2 (Delhi) promoted: Combat I
Maceman 2 (Delhi) promoted: Combat II
Spearman 3 (CowTown) promoted: Medic I
Deergold City begins: Hindu Missionary (2 turns)
LizTown begins: Hindu Temple (8 turns)
LizTown begins: Walls (9 turns)
PigsGems begins: Spy (3 turns)
FishTown begins: Spy (4 turns)
Crabsville begins: Maceman (6 turns)
CowTown begins: Maceman (4 turns)
SheepTown begins: Maceman (5 turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
100% Espionage: 175 per turn
0% Gold: -109 per turn, 326 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Deergold City
Deergold City finishes: Hindu Missionary

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Mansagawa (Mali) towards Shakagawa (Zululand), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Hammuragawa (Babylon) towards Shakagawa (Zululand), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Elizagawa (England) towards Shakagawa (Zululand), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Shakagawa (Zululand) towards Gandhi (India), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 164/500 (1040 AD) [20-May-2012 00:34:08]
Diplomacy (Help Request): Shakagawa (Zululand) asks Gandhi (India) for Paper; Gandhi REFUSES.
Gandhi (India) and Elizagawa (England) have signed a peace treaty
Hinduism has been removed: LizTown
LizTown lost
Hinduism has spread: LizTown (English Empire)
Tech traded to Elizagawa (England): Paper
Hammuragawa (Babylon) and Tokugawa (Japan) have signed a peace treaty
Pikeman promoted: Combat I
FishTown begins: Spy (3 turns)
Hinduism has been removed: FishTown
FishTown lost
Hinduism has spread: FishTown (English Empire)

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 164/500 (1040 AD) [20-May-2012 01:25:24]
0% Research: 4 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 62 per turn, 317 in the bank

After End Turn:
PigsGems finishes: Spy

Other Player Actions:
Huayanagawa (Inca) declares war on Shakagawa (Zululand)
Cyrusgawa (Persia) declares war on Shakagawa (Zululand)
Hinduism has been removed: GhostTown (Zulu Empire)
Hinduism has spread: GhostTown (Babylonian Empire)
Attitude Change: Tokugawa (Japan) towards Gandhi (India), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa (Japan) towards Hatsegawa (Egypt), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Hatsegawa (Egypt) towards Cyrusgawa (Persia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Hatsegawa (Egypt) towards Hammuragawa (Babylon), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Cyrusgawa (Persia) towards Shakagawa (Zululand), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Shakagawa (Zululand) towards Cyrusgawa (Persia), from 'Pleased' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Shakagawa (Zululand) towards Hammuragawa (Babylon), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 165/500 (1050 AD) [20-May-2012 01:26:00]


Screenshot of the event log I just peeked at.

Spoiler :
EventLog.jpg
 
OK I'll post a sketch plan of how to cater for T176 and T186 wins in 15 minutes. Please let me know who might give feedback after then. Then I guess I'll start play some time after that.
 
Kaitzilla said:
Very well, I will take down the linked save then.

Here is the Buffy Log. It shows something very weird after I traded Divine Right to Hammarugawa to make peace with Shakagawa. It says Cyrusgawa has declared peace with Shakagawa even though I know they weren't at war. :confused:

Spoiler :
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 163/500 (1030 AD) [19-May-2012 23:58:05]
Gandhi (India) and Shakagawa (Zululand) have signed a peace treaty
Hinduism has been removed: GhostTown
GhostTown lost
Hinduism has spread: GhostTown (Zulu Empire)
Tech traded to Hammuragawa (Babylon): Divine Right
Cyrusgawa (Persia) and Shakagawa (Zululand) have signed a peace treaty
Maceman 2 (Delhi) promoted: Combat I
Maceman 2 (Delhi) promoted: Combat II
Spearman 3 (CowTown) promoted: Medic I
Deergold City begins: Hindu Missionary (2 turns)
LizTown begins: Hindu Temple (8 turns)
LizTown begins: Walls (9 turns)
PigsGems begins: Spy (3 turns)
FishTown begins: Spy (4 turns)
Crabsville begins: Maceman (6 turns)
CowTown begins: Maceman (4 turns)
SheepTown begins: Maceman (5 turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
100% Espionage: 175 per turn
0% Gold: -109 per turn, 326 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Deergold City
Deergold City finishes: Hindu Missionary

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Mansagawa (Mali) towards Shakagawa (Zululand), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Hammuragawa (Babylon) towards Shakagawa (Zululand), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Elizagawa (England) towards Shakagawa (Zululand), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Shakagawa (Zululand) towards Gandhi (India), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 164/500 (1040 AD) [20-May-2012 00:34:08]
Diplomacy (Help Request): Shakagawa (Zululand) asks Gandhi (India) for Paper; Gandhi REFUSES.
Gandhi (India) and Elizagawa (England) have signed a peace treaty
Hinduism has been removed: LizTown
LizTown lost
Hinduism has spread: LizTown (English Empire)
Tech traded to Elizagawa (England): Paper
Hammuragawa (Babylon) and Tokugawa (Japan) have signed a peace treaty
Pikeman promoted: Combat I
FishTown begins: Spy (3 turns)
Hinduism has been removed: FishTown
FishTown lost
Hinduism has spread: FishTown (English Empire)

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 164/500 (1040 AD) [20-May-2012 01:25:24]
0% Research: 4 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 62 per turn, 317 in the bank

After End Turn:
PigsGems finishes: Spy

Other Player Actions:
Huayanagawa (Inca) declares war on Shakagawa (Zululand)
Cyrusgawa (Persia) declares war on Shakagawa (Zululand)
Hinduism has been removed: GhostTown (Zulu Empire)
Hinduism has spread: GhostTown (Babylonian Empire)
Attitude Change: Tokugawa (Japan) towards Gandhi (India), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa (Japan) towards Hatsegawa (Egypt), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Hatsegawa (Egypt) towards Cyrusgawa (Persia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Hatsegawa (Egypt) towards Hammuragawa (Babylon), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Cyrusgawa (Persia) towards Shakagawa (Zululand), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Shakagawa (Zululand) towards Cyrusgawa (Persia), from 'Pleased' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Shakagawa (Zululand) towards Hammuragawa (Babylon), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 165/500 (1050 AD) [20-May-2012 01:26:00]


Screenshot of the event log I just peeked at.

Spoiler :
EventLog.jpg
Click to expand...


I would assume this is another consequence of the bug with the TeamAI.
I wonder why your save didn't upload too, maybe there was some error/bug there too?

anyways there is a chance for T176.
We can still take SBB T174? or does it have to be T173? from genghisgawa and gift it to Shaka. (after we make peace between cyrus and shaka) and we have to hope that Shaka doesn't become Hamm's worst enemy
 
Maybe close borders with the Team_AI to teleport our stack to Cyrus lands. Declare on Ghenghigawa and take SBB. Since Cyrus is at war with Shaka, we can hold onto SBB without fear of Cyrus declaring on us. Occupy SBB with our monster stack until T174.

Buy peace between Cyrus and Shaka at some point. Then gift SBB to Shaka T174 and pray it doesn't flip.
 
bcool said:
I would assume this is another consequence of the bug with the TeamAI.
I wonder why your save didn't upload too, maybe there was some error/bug there too?

anyways there is a chance for T176.
We can still take SBB T174? or does it have to be T173? from genghisgawa and gift it to Shaka. (after we make peace between cyrus and shaka) and we have to hope that Shaka doesn't become Hamm's worst enemy
Click to expand...

SBB could flip to Cyrus any time I think. I think we have a chance to take it and hold it if we can get our big stack there. No idea how to fix Worst Enemy feelings of Hamma. Maybe it won't matter because Mercantilism will get us up to +10 with Hamma even with a -4 penalty.
 
If Mansa gifts/libs Bulawayo to North as expected, then we have no chance (edit: wrong, see option 1 below) to get it back until we can re-DOW T174 (after T163 peace), which will constrain a T186 win at the earliest. If we miss that boat, T196 will be a Resident Election and T206 a possible win. Vomit.

So I propose to cater for our T176 chances in a non-committal way until we see the fate of Bulwayo by T167-8.

  1. We DOW Cyrus soon (assuming we can wear the -1 diplo with Hammu; Cyrus focus will already be a Shaka city), get OB with Shaka from our shared war, move our stack to consider taking WestPort for gifting to Shaka (edit: stupid, WestPort is not Hindu), and also use that OB for spreading Hinduism naturally to Shaka. Theocracy is not a problem if Shaka's religion is Hinduism! Edit: bc had a brainwave - we DOW Cyrus T165, OB with Shaka, use his roads, build a new one with our workers, move next to Numidian T166, capture Numidian T167 (it had 2 virgin protective longbows and 20% culture defence T163), gift that to north AI before they give Bula away. Then get a missionary up there, dodging Cyrus. No culture pressure on Numidian. Easy! Gift city chaining!
  2. I doubt we'll have any other hope of OB with Shaka for a missionary spread, or a caravel-gift spread.
  3. We could get peace between Shaka and Cyrus, DOW Genghis, capture SBB and gift it T174 to try for a victory vote that way. If so, I'd suggest ASAP peace between Shaka and Cyrus for a tech, which we can do right now. That will allow Shaka to focus on Borsippa (see below). But I like the first option much better.
  4. Another chance for T176 win is to infect Borsippa or Nongoma during combat and arrange Shaka to end up with it somehow. I don't like Shaka's chances against Borsippa, but we can afford Borsippa to be Hindu regardless of who owns it, so we should do that first thing. (This frees up a missionary slot to send one via Patton to Incan homeland to gift to them for hopefully some insurance Hinduism, and then perhaps another missionary to Genghis for insurance.) Anyway, we want to assemble a stack in the Borsippa region, with spies ready in most/all of Borsippa, Nongoma and Bulawyo for any chance that comes our way.
  5. Maybe close borders with the Team_AI to teleport our stack to Cyrus lands. Declare on Ghenghigawa and take SBB. Since Cyrus is at war with Shaka, we can hold onto SBB without fear of Cyrus declaring on us. Occupy SBB with our monster stack until T174. Buy peace between Cyrus and Shaka at some point. Then gift SBB to Shaka T174 and pray it doesn't flip.

If T176 win becomes impossible, then we still assemble spies, missionaries and military stack around Borsippa and judge when to strike at Shaka to get him a reliable city, while re-positioning to recapture Bulwayo if needed. Some of the above plans can be co-opted, but I estimate that I'd probably be handing over the reins to someone else.

In all cases, our empire goes back to normal growth patterns and produces military units that flood to the Shaka front. We may need a lot of votes to counter a big influx of Shaka Hinduism (20 votes!). Improvements and chops in normal ways. Missionaries to Akhetaten to try to get insurance spreads to Inca and Genghis. Go back to Theocracy and keep Slavery. Do vote counting T172 and whip down and prepare Hammu missionaries and spies as we did T162-4, if there's a chance of a T176 win.
 
Er, if Cyrus was bribed into war with Shaka he might still have war plans against us? Maybe holding SBB not so good idea. I'm not sure if it will last until T174 under Ghenghigawa's control.
 
mabraham said:
If Mansa gifts/libs Bulawayo to North as expected, then we have no chance to get it back until we can re-DOW T174 (after T163 peace), which will constrain a T186 win at the earliest. If we miss that boat, T196 will be a Resident Election and T206 a possible win. Vomit.

So I propose to cater for our T176 chances in a non-committal way until we see the fate of Bulwayo by T167-8.

  1. We DOW Cyrus (assuming we can wear the -1 diplo with Hammu; Cyrus focus will already be a Shaka city), get OB with Shaka from our shared war, move our stack to consider taking WestPort for gifting to Shaka, and also use that OB for spreading Hinduism naturally. Theocracy is not a problem if the religion is Hinduism!
  2. I doubt we'll have any other hope of OB with Shaka for a missionary spread, or a caravel-gift spread.
  3. We could get peace between Shaka and Cyrus, DOW Genghis, capture SBB and gift it T174 to try for a victory vote that way. If so, I'd suggest ASAP peace between Shaka and Cyrus for a tech, which we can do right now. That will allow Shaka to focus on Borsippa (see below). But I like the first option much better.
  4. Another chance for T176 win is to infect Borsippa or Nongoma during combat and arrange Shaka to end up with it somehow. I don't like Shaka's chances against Borsippa, but we can afford Borsippa to be Hindu regardless of who owns it, so we should do that first thing. (This frees up a missionary slot to send one via Patton to Incan homeland to gift to them for hopefully some insurance Hinduism, and then perhaps another missionary to Genghis for insurance.) Anyway, we want to assemble a stack in the Borsippa region, with spies ready in most/all of Borsippa, Nongoma and Bulawyo for any chance that comes our way.
  5. Maybe close borders with the Team_AI to teleport our stack to Cyrus lands. Declare on Ghenghigawa and take SBB. Since Cyrus is at war with Shaka, we can hold onto SBB without fear of Cyrus declaring on us. Occupy SBB with our monster stack until T174. Buy peace between Cyrus and Shaka at some point. Then gift SBB to Shaka T174 and pray it doesn't flip.

If T176 win becomes impossible, then we still assemble spies, missionaries and military stack around Borsippa and judge when to strike at Shaka to get him a reliable city. Some of the above plans can be co-opted, but I estimate that I'd probably be handing over the reins to someone else.

In all cases, our empire goes back to normal growth patterns and produces military units that flood to the Shaka front. Improvements and chops in normal ways. Missionaries to Akhetaten to try to get insurance spreads to Inca and Genghis. Go back to Theocracy and keep Slavery. Do vote counting T172 and whip down and prepare Hammu missionaries and spies as we did T162-4, if there's a chance of a T176 win.
Click to expand...


Oh ya, DoW Cyrus and spread Hindu to Shaka with a missionary :crazyeye:
 
Kaitzilla please post your t164 save just before pressing "End of Turn" button, if possible.

It is impossible for Hammuragawa to DoW Shakagawa after Shakagawa and Hammuragawa signed a Peace Treaty (brokered by Gandhi).

Thanks,

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Sun Tzu Wu said:
Kaitzilla please post your t164 save just before pressing "End of Turn" button, if possible.

It is impossible for Hammuragawa to DoW Shakagawa after Shakagawa and Hammuragawa signed a Peace Treaty (brokered by Gandhi).

Thanks,

Sun Tzu Wu
Click to expand...

Very well. Here is my game at the end of T164:

Real Game Attached for 30 minutes. Make sure you only look around!
 
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