Stealth Destroyer makes terrible escort

I still have to buy Civ IV but I completely agree on these 2 bugs you mentioned here :

1 ) Stealth Destroyers MUST engage enemies when attacked

2 ) Standard Destroyers can be built even after Stealth ones have been discovered

3 ) The STEALTH option can be turned on or off,otherwise sailors can't see where is the ship to take service on at harbour :D


Please correct me if I summarized wrongly


Please keep this warning high in the bug section,thanks
 
omg I don't think they navy will ever work properly!
 
I wonder if it there is a stealth radar as well, because it seems to me that at the moment you start scanning you can be detected and if you dont, well your enemies are "stealthy" as well. Anyway I'm not very familiar with this technology but maybe you guys are so you may explain.
 
Well a Real Life stealth destroyer will only activate its active radar if and when it is ready to engage on its own terms, and for the minimum of time only - otherwise it will rely on passive sensors. It is similar with the F-22, a stealth jet with a powerful radar that is only used when absolutely necessary or when stealth is not a concern.
 
kimango said:
Well a Real Life stealth destroyer will only activate its active radar if and when it is ready to engage on its own terms, and for the minimum of time only - otherwise it will rely on passive sensors. It is similar with the F-22, a stealth jet with a powerful radar that is only used when absolutely necessary or when stealth is not a concern.
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Those speeches remind me a childwood memory when Larry Bond's Harpoon made my days........

Keep up the good work Kimango,these anomalies must be fixed

cheers
 
Anyone else think they should be visible somehow to all units (like if they get next to it or go into your culture). We were seeing galleys just fine without radar for thousands of years.
 
CivDude86 said:
Anyone else think they should be visible somehow to all units (like if they get next to it or go into your culture). We were seeing galleys just fine without radar for thousands of years.
Here's a quick fix that allows you to build both destroyers, goes in CustomAssets\xml\units.
Click to expand...

bumpy dumpy as this may interest other people as well.
 
Noob question, I know, but why not use Battleships as escorts instead? Granted they don't have the AA capabilities, but then Lesson #1 of BTS has been to use a mixed stack instead of spamming two different units.

Battleships to do the real defending (and potentially take some Air hits that would otherwise have gotten the Carrier), Stealth Destroyers do the AA, Attack Subs provide the sub-defense, Carriers rock socks.
 
Lurking Liu said:
Noob question, I know, but why not use Battleships as escorts instead? Granted they don't have the AA capabilities, but then Lesson #1 of BTS has been to use a mixed stack instead of spamming two different units.

Battleships to do the real defending (and potentially take some Air hits that would otherwise have gotten the Carrier), Stealth Destroyers do the AA, Attack Subs provide the sub-defense, Carriers rock socks.
Click to expand...

Battleships actually upgrade to Missile "cruisers" now with Robotics, which are identical in stats but can carry 4 Guided Missiles (dirt cheap, ranged, 1 shot, massive damage to one target).

When you research stealth, your destroyers:
1) Lose the capability to spot submarines
2) Lose the capability to defend against enemies
3) Cost more :hammers: to build
4) Can only be spotted by other Stealth Destroyers

It's a sidegrade at best... and if you're lacking Uranium, you completely lose the ability to see subs in any way, shape or form. This last factor is what makes me think it's a bug.
 
I was SHOCKED the other day when I had a transport escorted by a submarine. An enemy transport attacked, and it attacked my TRANSPORT. Fortunately, my transport won the battle. Obviously the same problem as stated in this thread.
 
perhaps when defending at your opponent's turn, you get a pop-up and decide whether you choose to reveal your stealth destroyer or maintain the stealth capability
 
weird tho, stealth ships are only supposed to be hidden in radars... so when battleships, planes, or whatever attacks, they could still see the physical ship thereby the stealth destroyer should do the fighting... imo, wat they should do is to just change it so that the stealth destroyer is the one that gets attacked... in other words stealth destroyers should still replace destroyers but keep the destroyer's abilities...
 
jkto said:
weird tho, stealth ships are only supposed to be hidden in radars... so when battleships, planes, or whatever attacks, they could still see the physical ship thereby the stealth destroyer should do the fighting... imo, wat they should do is to just change it so that the stealth destroyer is the one that gets attacked... in other words stealth destroyers should still replace destroyers but keep the destroyer's abilities...
Click to expand...

I agree, it should simply be a Destroyer that gains stealth in trade for costing a little more :hammers:. It's much further down the tech tree after all... Combustion is right after Railroads, while Stealth is right before Future Tech at the end of the game. It should actually upgrade your navy, not sidegrade it or reduce the destroyer's usefulness in defense and sub-spotting.
 
HiroHito said:
how can a destroyer be stealthy anyway ?
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Agreed. Whilst this is a bad game mechanic that is also a good question. It isn't even "future age" by the time we get these. Stealth submarines I can understand but umm, a great big destroyer can't be seen? Stupid.


Edit: Ok I get the radar stealthing now, didn't think of that first. It still stand that it is silly once the enemy is close enough to engage.
 
Michlo said:
Edit: Ok I get the radar stealthing now, didn't think of that first. It still stand that it is silly once the enemy is close enough to engage.
Click to expand...

The key factor is that "close range" in today's ship-to-ship missile warfare is hundreds of miles. ;)

The conceptual Zumwalt class DDG (600ft x 80ft) is larger than the current Arleigh Burke class destroyer (500ft x 60ft), yet has a radar signature about the size as a small 2-man civilian shrimp trawler.

The advantage is against any enemy relying solely on radar - at night, or out of visual contact range (3-10 miles) over the horizon. Guided missiles can reach 100-200 miles, and naval guns (depending on the gun) up to 20 miles. By the time you engage, if you didn't already know the ship was there it's too late. It's also intended to replace the role of the four WW2-built Iowa class battleships in artillery fire support for on-shore military operations, which were still in service in every war (Korea, Vietnam, and other worldwide engagements) up to and including the first Gulf War. The low radar signature makes it difficult to spot and track electronically, so it's especially ideal for shore support.

It'd still be vulnerable to small motorboat-sized patrol craft in engagements a few miles from shore of course (which can hide in harbors or coves to avoid detection, are too small for the larger, expensive anti-ship missiles and can get in close range) which is what the proposed Littoral Combat Ship family is for. The generic "stealth destroyer" in Civ is like the Zumwalt - long range, large scale surface and anti-air support. LCS's provide anti-submarine support as well, but there is no equivalent to them in the game, meaning you lose the capability to spot subs when upgrading from the Destroyer to the Stealth Destroyer. This might have been done to make the Attack Sub more useful... but if you're without uranium upgrading your destroyers makes you defenseless against subs past the sight range of airships. It really should just roll the LCS and Zumwalt into one and make "Stealth Destroyers" a "Destroyer" upgrade with stealth and better AA.

Then there's the irony of ships not fulfilling their real-life roles... you build a few cheap Destroyers to provide anti-air and anti-missile support for a massive fleet of expensive Cruisers, instead of the other way around.
 
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