RFC is dead, long live RFC

Um, I think that it wasn't Rhye's intention for wins on every civ at emperor. I've been through that masochistic phase already before, thank you very much.

AnotherPacifist said:

A work in progress, RFC RAND is. Dead it is not.

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I was trying to be clever, but I meant what do you think of RAND as a player? You mentioned other fixed maps (RFCE or something new). Is a fixed map essential to you?

I personally think attention now needs to be shifted to RFC RAND. It has so much potential, but as AP said, it's a work in progress and needs much work. And of course RFCE, although personally I'd rather play RAND (no offense to any of the RFCE modders).

Could focus more on dynasties rather than civs.

Example (India)
Mauryan Empire available from game start. They have their own UHV. Then should they "descend into civil war". Depending on when the empire collapses will depend on which dynasty rises after them. Each dynasty has its own UHV (I think the power should stay the same as its still the same civ). A civil war around 1500AD would lead to the Mughal arrival, while a civil war around 1200AD would lead to the Delhi sultanate arrival.

Certainly ALOT of work to do to make that possible though...

Certainly ALOT of work to do to make that possible though...

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That's the thing. Rhye has repeatedly said that he doesn't have much free time, so something of a smaller magnitude would probably be more appropriate. That's why I'm suggesting to put more energy into RAND, because that is an already finished (relatively speaking) mod.

AnotherPacifist said:

I'm going to say this not to offend people, but it's about time that RFC be given a gentle death. The concepts of RFC can be applied to other maps and historical situations (like RFC Europe and even in the mod I'm playing now, the History of the Three Kingdoms, with some mix and match of unique powers and players), but as of right now, the huge world map we all are used to (and memorized by heart) is probably exhausted in terms of possibilities.

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I just think you've been away from RFC too long AP, your vision is perhaps clouded with romanticism for the Three Kingdoms period mod.

I disagree with you that RFC is dead. Rather, you are out of challenges. I understand this aspect because I sometimes feel the same way myself.

I was really hoping that Rhye might rework the UHVs with the big changes that were forecast around the end of last year. Sadly, the UHV changes were more superficial and almost invisible overall. I was really looking forward to a new set of UHV challenges. I still am.

For me, I will never be able to play vanilla BTS after having played RFC as much as I have. And I will continue to hold out a candle that Rhye will reinvigorate the mod with some new UHV challenges one day. I'm an eternal optimist I guess.

A new UHV set you say?
So, a kind of expansion pack...
If this, rather than new features or whole new spinoffs, is what you need for refreshing your challenges, why not!

Cool, I'd like some new UHVs as well

Yes, a set map is what's fun about RFC. I like working problem sets where the solutions are flexible but not infinite. (That's why routine BTS is so dull to me because of the randomness).
And yes, a new set of UHVs would rejuvenate RFC for me.

Well, I still would advertise to rework all UHVs in the easy, tough, impossible matter (1st goal, 2nd goal, 3rd goal) - impossible on emperor.

It would also change the goal to only consider results rather then milestones but set a finite deadline

E.g. Mongols

1. Capture South China
2. Vassalize Russia and Arabia
3. Conquer 9 % of world territory

Deadline : 1500

So as soon as the player has conquered South China he gets the first goal set, as soon as the vassalizes R und A he gets the second goal.
If the deadline runs out and he has not reached all 3 goals yet then he has forfeited the UHV option.

So in case of China

1. Build the Great Wall and X Pagodas/Academies
2. Get X amount of gold in trade of goods
3. Built the Silk Route (new building called Trade Point, can only be built by special unit called Chinese Trader. This trader can built it only in foreign cities when open borders exist. Silk Route must span from Beijing to Europe without interruption, route doesnt matter could be over Arabia or over Russia or over Turkey)

Deadline : 1500

I have been playing RAND a lot lately and although it's relatively new and needs some more work, it's potential has matured already, especially after the latest version.

When time comes I would like to see a poll on Rhye's new ideas: new features, new mod or new UHV's.

Kinda the opposite view point to AnotherPacifist.

Although I like the UHV in general sometimes they feel too restrictive, some of them are too much of a puzzle and there is only one way of doing them.

I still like the role playing portion of the game and seeing how history is played out which is kinda spoiled if the message "SPAIN HAS WON A UNIQUE HISTORICAL VICTORY" is constantly splashed on the screen.

Quite often I'll just go for 2 UHV to get the golden age but not bother with the 3rd at all.

I feel there must be someway to combine these 2 points of view.

I like Rod's suggestion of an overall time limit which might give you some more freedom.

Another idea which was previously mentioned is quests like the BTS quest but unique for each CIV.

This could be done several ways.

Firstly the Quest could be listed with the UHV
For instance one quest for Rome could be build a "Christian Apostolic Palace" if Rome completes the quest they get a bunch of Christian missionaries for free.

The second way to do this would be NOT to have the Quests listed but they would come up if certain conditions were meet ie for the above quest you only get told about if you play as Rome you convert to Christianity and use theology and the Apolostic Palace isnt built. I think this would add more incentive to head down some kind of historical route with out making it too restrictive and you would get bonuses for doing this.

This system would be particularly good for RAND where things are reasonably random therefore quests are only given if things are already going in the right direction already. And the time line would be more adjustable to how the game is currently panning out if for instance research was slowed because there was alot of deserts and the barbs killed everyone.

Another idea would be to have a list of 9 or so UHV and you only have to complete 3. But make them either very very difficult or make them very different so if you start researching military techs you can only get some or if you research religion your only likely to get another 3.

This way people can choose what sort of game/path they want to choose while still going for the UHV.

Ie China

Military
1. Build 120 Unit
2. Vassalise Korea + Khmer(representing Vietnam) by such and such time
3. Conqueror/Vassalise the Mongols
4. Build the Great Wall

Religious
1. Found Toaism/Confusism
2. Build 2 Toaist Pagoda / Confusion by 1000AD

Scientific
1. Be the first to Research Paper
2. Be first to Research Civil Service

Exploration
1. Take a great Merchant to Rome (represents Silk road)

Again these ideas could be used as quests for instance if you have contact with Rome and a Great Merchant pops the quest Transport GM to Rome appears and if you do it you get another free GM or market

If it was possible a real cool prize would be a road from Beijing to Rome appears.

The ideas Im suggesting are not really that puzzle solving like AP wants so you could change the above to if Rome and Beijing exist in 1000AD then you have to get a great Merchant to Rome by 1500AD which means you have to figure out how to get the great merchant.

But the thing I'd really like to see from these quest would be they only appear if you going down a certain line so you dont have to completely change the direction of your empire to complete them allowing you more control over how you choose to play,

Basically what Im suggesting is some way of encouraging historical gameplay without limiting individuals play style and also only if conditions are right.

As mentioned this would have great benefits for RAND where conditions are variable and therefore the quests would only appear if conditions were right.

A good one for the Mongols would be if they found/conquer a Coastal city + Japan exists then conqueror Japan. There would need to be a really good bonus for this as its something the mongols didnt manage to do.

The UHV can be reset. If it is too hard to think of ones for the smaller empires, Rhye can make new ones just for the bigger ones. Call it an expansion mod or something.

New UUs can be given. Sometimes these UUs does not matter at all. How much does the Chinese CKN matter? And how can the Cossack shine if they face infantry at least to fight against? And Mayan Holkans, if they build any, will be the direct contributor to its empires' fall, because they fight things that will eat them alive...

How about adding Poland to RFC

Something to consider is to introduce more choice in the event scripting. Below are 2 screenshots of what I have been working on.



This is a non-random event that triggers on the following conditions:

- player must be Persia
- other player must be Babylon
- players must share at least 2 bordered tiles

The event choices are:

- receive 4 immmortals
- flip a bordering city (2nd screenshot)

An additional benefit is that you can have the AI always make the same choice to ensure historical accuracy, but let the human player make it's own choice.

EDIT: another (non-RFC) example

looks good

Bruce sounds good but also sounds like free stuff to a lot of spawning civs. Can we make them cost something?

Stuff I'd like to see are Unique Wonders, flavoured religion,...

Maybe Uniqe Historical Goals, a small quest for a civ opening up the chance to build a unique wonder or some other reward.

I was thinking something like:
England: found New York by XXXX en get 2 settlers there
Turkey: build XX janissary and get the chance to build Topkapi unique wonder

I'm new here but I've been lurking in RFC forums for a long time and also played RFC for over a year.

I'd suggest that every time you start a game you would get an option to choose from a couple of different UHV sets. There could be for example three military goals, scientifical goals and religious goals and you could choose which ones you want to try to achieve.

And maybe make available to choose which leader you want to play as and make UHVs leader related. Like if you'd play as Greece, Alexander would have militaristic goals and Pericles more peaceful ones about research, culture or wonder building. It would work even better if the extra leaderheads modcomp would be done so there wouldn't be much more options for some civs. But for AI it would be harder because leaders change.

This might be pretty hard but it would sure make RFC a lot better mod at least for me and I guess for some others also.