Cypress Lake High School: "Just Trust Us, suspending kid who stops shooting good idea

GhostWriter16 said:

I honestly just think some people in the government want another Sandy Hook so gun control will get more public support. That's the only logical explanation I can think of for this.

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I find your lack of logic distressing.

Or maybe it's your lack of imagination in failing to imagine reasonable explanations for this.

Really, though, I find your viewpoint utterly despicable. Implying that the million-or-so people who work for the public in federal, state, and local governments all collectively want another massacre of children just so they can try to legislate more restrictive weapons-ownership regulations over the course of the next few months is OBVIOUSLY the most likely explanation.

Yes, yes, yes. You alone, GhostWriter16, have seen into the dark heart of evil government and divined their true intentions.

GhostWriter16 said:

I honestly just think some people in the government want another Sandy Hook so gun control will get more public support. That's the only logical explanation I can think of for this. While I can sympathize with the "Secret reward" idea, I don't see why it had to be secret, seeing as how what he did isn't wrong even on paper.

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Dear christ. This is the most disturbing and baseless allegation I've ever heard you make.

Owen Glyndwr said:

Dear christ. This is the most disturbing and baseless allegation I've ever heard you make.

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That sounds like a challenge!

downtown said:

Of course, the administrators who were previously teachers, dedicated to the education of small children, will gladly sacrifice the lives of those small children to pass gun control...which only benefits that administrator if the govt then steamrolls over the unarmed public to create a dictatorship, where suburban school administration officials will be elevated to glorious state positions. That makes total sense.

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They were high schoolers, but no, it doesn't make sense, other than a conspiracy. I just can't imagine any other reason why they woudl do it.

It is not uncommon for schools to suspend or discipline students for breaking up fights to protect themselves from potential legal liability.

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Which shows something about how screwed up our civil law system is.

GhostWriter16 said:

I just can't imagine any other reason why they woudl do it.

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Which is simply a failure of imagination on your part, not an indication of dire evil on their part.

DT may have had a point about "Possible lawsuits" although that just shows that something is seriously screwed up with our law system.

Owen Glyndwr said:

Dear christ. This is the most disturbing and baseless allegation I've ever heard you make.

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That is nothing compared to some who think Sandy Hook was a government plot to take away their extended ammo magazines again.

Here is a far more detailed article.

Florida law allows administrators to place anyone involved in such an incident on emergency suspension pending a hearing. The teen who wrestled the gun from the football player has been informed he can return to school Monday.

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Given that they had no idea of what actually transpired at the time of the decision, I think it was quite appropriate that they suspended the other student until they could properly investigate the incident.

I don't really think Sandy Hook itself was a conspiracy, but I wouldn'tbe surprised if the media is still talking about it because they're being paid to. More likely, however, the media just hates the 2nd just as much as the government and yourself do.

GhostWriter16 said:

They were high schoolers, but no, it doesn't make sense, other than a conspiracy. I just can't imagine any other reason why they woudl do it.

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Which of the following scenarios is most likely?

1) The administration decided to suspend every student involved until they could undergo a proper investigation

2) The student who wrestled the gun away had a previous record of altercations at school, causing the administration to institute a zero tolerance policy in case he got into another one, but didn't leak this information to the press to protect the student's privacy

3) The school elected to suspend all students to prevent the gun-wrestler from being bullied or attacked by the gunman's friends until tempers could cool down

4) The school punished the student because they were secretly hoping more students would be murdered so gun control could get passed.

If you think option 4 is the most likely, you are a total moron.

GhostWriter16 said:

I don't really think Sandy Hook itself was a conspiracy, but I wouldn'tbe surprised if the media is still talking about it because they're being paid to. More likely, however, the media just hates the 2nd just as much as the government and yourself do.

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Or maybe they, like many other Americans are still in shock that a grown man would come to an elementary school and killed 20 children and 6 adults. I mean honestly. Truly horrifying stuff. How can you honestly believe that and then not believe 9/11 was a conspiracy. They're essentially on equal footing in terms of looniness.

1 is possible.

2. is possible but the school is absolutely ******ed if that's the case. I don't care what he did in the past, he saved lives there.

3. Is possible.

4. Is unlikely but I'm paranoid.

GhostWriter16 said:

downtown said:

It is not uncommon for schools to suspend or discipline students for breaking up fights to protect themselves from potential legal liability.

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Which shows something about how screwed up our civil law system is.

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I agree 100%.The tax payer covers the cost of the average education costs for an individual over a lifetime (age 5 to 18) is about 1/4 of a million dollars...

so yeah lets sacrifice an individuals life/future all in the name of saving cash...

AND I am speaking from personal experience...I got kicked out of High School for breaking up a fight...the reason..."oh you are over 18...you shouldn't even be going to this school...we could call the cops and charge you as an adult..."

So basically they got me to agree to be "kicked out" so I didn't have to make it a police matter...


again they look for any excuse to save their own ass....

I agree wholeheartedly agree with Ghostwriter lets abolish this garbage and make teachers go to your house like they used to do when America made sense....

Owen Glyndwr said:

Or maybe they, like many other Americans are still in shock that a grown man would come to an elementary school and killed 20 children and 6 adults. I mean honestly. Truly horrifying stuff. How can you honestly believe that and then not believe 9/11 was a conspiracy. They're essentially on equal footing in terms of looniness.

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the guy was barely 20 and mentally unbalanced.He was probably paranoid schizo and like alot of the rumors I heard he probably killed the kids because he thought they were stealing his mother's attention...(wasn't she the teacher that got shot first?)plus I hate how everyone thinks these guys are mentally mature enough to know what they are doing...The Columbine "kids" thought they could fly away to Mexico after they escaped the campus...are they even living in our reality???

GhostWriter16 said:

4. Is unlikely but I'm paranoid.

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That's the thing. You spouted off about how you couldn't possibly think of any other reason than this diabolical conspiracy because you struggle to critically think outside of your dogmatic, occasionally paranoid ideology. If you pressed me for it, I could probably think of another 10 perfectly plausible reasons for this behavior. Suspending kids "for their own safety' is not an uncommon practice in school environments where gun violence is a fact of life.

Your insinuation that administration officials would essentially facilitate the murder of kids is pretty offensive. If you're going to fling crazy stuff like that, I implore you to think a little harder first.

King Kalmah said:

I agree 100%.The tax payer covers the cost of the average education costs for an individual over a lifetime (age 5 to 18) is about 1/4 of a million dollars...

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Not it isn't, it's closer to 120,000. Per pupil spending outside of very urban districts is ~10K a year, with elementary school students costing far less.

AND I am speaking from personal experience...I got kicked out of High School for breaking up a fight...the reason..."oh you are over 18...you shouldn't even be going to this school...we could call the cops and charge you as an adult..."

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Yeah, that sounds exactly right, and I would have done the same thing as an administrator.

So basically they got me to agree to be "kicked out" so I didn't have to make it a police matter...

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Based on just those facts, sounds like you got the better of the deal. Changing schools is a lot easier than facing a possible assault charge. I had one of my 4th graders picked up by the police for an assault. I'm sure a 17, 18 year old could get nailed and have even stiffer legal implications.

downtown said:

That's the thing. You spouted off about how you couldn't possibly think of any other reason than this diabolical conspiracy because you struggle to critically think outside of your dogmatic, occasionally paranoid ideology. If you pressed me for it, I could probably think of another 10 perfectly plausible reasons for this behavior. Suspending kids "for their own safety' is not an uncommon practice in school environments where gun violence is a fact of life.

Your insinuation that administration officials would essentially facilitate the murder of kids is pretty offensive. If you're going to fling crazy stuff like that, I implore you to think a little harder first.

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If its any consolation, I did admit to paranoia.

This isn't normally the way I think either. I'd probably think such a thing about somebody high up, but not school administrators. I think I'm just going insane...

GhostWriter16 said:

2. is possible but the school is absolutely ******ed if that's the case. I don't care what he did in the past, he saved lives there.

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It should also be noted that self-defense is a very wishy-washy and difficult matter from a legal standpoint, mostly because there's a very fine line between executing necessary force in a clear and present danger and using excessive force. Basically just because someone is a mugger doesn't mean their rights as a citizen of the US are abridged. Sure the kid saved students, but the school a) doesn't know that and b) doesn't know if the violence the kid may or may not have used is justified. What if, say the kid pushed over the attacker and disarmed him. At this point the driver can stop the bus and the students can exit the vehicle. The threat has been neutralized. This is the definition of self-defense under the law. You are to use as much force as is deemed necessary to extricate yourself of the situation. Now if after knocking the attacker over, the defendant goes in and kicks the attacker. This is exercising excessive force because the defender doesn't need to kick him, he's already been disarmed. If the attacker has his ribs broken because of this then the defender is liable to be sued because the defender harmed the attacker through use of excessive force. If the school is shown to have done nothing to punish the legally culpable defender or worse yet, actively praised or encouraged the defender for his actions then the school is equally liable.

This isn't bs. This is how our country operates. Nobody has their rights abridged until they have been found guilty in a court of law. Just because you're being attacked does not mean you get to take the law into your own hand and mete out what justice you think is deserved. You have a right to protect your own well being but going beyond that is trampling on the rights of another citizen and if the court can demonstrate that you have gone beyond that you're in for a terrible time in court. Keep that in mind the next time you decide to go ahead and shoot or pursue a burgler as he's running away from the scene of a crime.

It should also be noted that this is a partial reason why businesses tell you to give up when held hostage/at gunpoint by a burglar. Sure the "you might die if you act like an idiot" part plays into it (especially when the business is liable if its employee is harmed and the business didn't tell that employee not to be an idiot) but also because if the employee in the process of being a hero executes excessive force on the alleged criminal then the business could be liable from the criminal for harming him.

If he's running away with your property you should absolutely be allowed to shoot. That you can't shows that the law favors crooks over the innocent. Its absurd.

Now, kicking a guy when he's already down, I absolutely agree that that's not acceptable, but we don't know that that happened either. I also wouldn't let the would-be-murderer sue for it; if he's actually guilty he ought to be executed anyway...

GhostWriter16 said:

If he's running away with your property you should absolutely be allowed to shoot. That you can't shows that the law favors crooks over the innocent. Its absurd.

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No it's not. You don't get to take the law into your own hands. That's how our legal system works. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. This is why cops use "alleged burglar" and "suspect" in their write-ups rather than "burglar" or "criminal", even if they've got the guy red-handed, dead to rights, he's still innocent under the law until a DA can conclusively prove he did it. It may be an open and shut case that's resolved in less than a day, but the burglar is still entitled to that right.

A cop is also not allowed to shoot a fleeing burglar unless he can demonstrate a clear and present danger which required the use of deadly force. If he guns down that burglar he'll have to fill out pounds of paperwork and testify in a number of hearings to justify his actions. You, homeowner, are not a cop. You don't have the training to make those sorts of judgments. It is not your job to be a cop (even if you're an off-duty cop). If the burglar is fleeing the scene that's good. You won't be harmed. Your responsibility now is to not do anything stupid, take down any information you can and let the professionals nab the bad guy.

If you were dumb enough to chase down the guy. Even if you just chased him down and tackled him you are liable to be sued, because you are using excessive force. The attacker fled, you are out of harm's way. Any further action is not justified by the existence of a clear and present danger which necessitates action on your part.

Now, kicking a guy when he's already down, I absolutely agree that that's not acceptable, but we don't know that that happened either. I also wouldn't let the would-be-murderer sue for it; if he's actually guilty he ought to be executed anyway...

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Well the school doesn't know that. Better for them to air on the side of caution until all the facts can be sorted than to leave him in school and risk legal action by the attacker. Which is what dt said.

I agree that is how it should be. But unfortunately it is not in some states like Texas.


Link to video.

downtown said:

Yeah, that sounds exactly right, and I would have done the same thing as an administrator.


Based on just those facts, sounds like you got the better of the deal. Changing schools is a lot easier than facing a possible assault charge.

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Facepalm...okay yeah...it is not that easy to just transfer to another school...(but I do agree about the police thing...around here they love throwing you in jail for nothing at all)

In California I think the only option available to me was adult education at the community college and the school was in another county...that is about a two hour bus ride....plus this was when gas prices were cresting 3 dollars...(a first back then)

so I dropped out and now am doomed to be a lower class citizen till I die or hit the lotto...or move back to the old country...(I hope they still think America is smart...or my middle school education ain't worth jack...)