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SGOTM 13 - T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't

I'll finish up tomorrow. Play out to t160.

As regards the research I'll have to kill it again, the extra money drain of the new city is too much @-6gpt
 
I'm happy to settle the GP, its probably the best option.

At least the iron is in a decent spot. Also agreed that an axe rush is not feasible, though a sword rush might work, maces are my preferred option. We can always build an army of axes and upgrade them, especially if we have good cash generation.

Settle the GP!

Yeah, that city 1S of the iron with iron and two clams in the small cross is great.

I'll finish up tomorrow. Play out to t160.

As regards the research I'll have to kill it again, the extra money drain of the new city is too much @-6gpt

That's fine. With currency and colossus coming in and Victoria too far to rush (I agree with this, :() spam out some settlers as they're our next best option. All those sites I mentioned earlier are going to be decent once Colossus coast comes in to play.
 
Settling the GP sounds good to me as well.

And let's settle toward Vicky next (2 x clam/iron seems obvious). I think going Vicky (SH) > Catherine (GLH) seems like a good general direction in which to march across the map.
 
Yeah it is the right idea, though if we do want an early rush target Ragnar is the obvious choice.

Oh, and I'll rename our cities before moving on.
 
And let's settle toward Vicky next (2 x clam/iron seems obvious). I think going Vicky (SH) > Catherine (GLH) seems like a good general direction in which to march across the map.

Expanding that way does make sense. Also, Joao should be around there somewhere.

Yeah it is the right idea, though if we do want an early rush target Ragnar is the obvious choice.

I think a super early rush has probably come and gone. I support Neil's idea of waiting until maces. If we got those early enough we can take out two AIs.

Oh, and I'll rename our cities before moving on.

After I just learned all of their names, :lol:.
 
I think a super early rush has probably come and gone. I support Neil's idea of waiting until maces. If we got those early enough we can take out two AIs.

Don't worry I've not taken leave of my senses, just pointing out in case anyone is particularly bloodthirsty.


After I just learned all of their names, :lol:.

Of course, that's the whole idea. But we can't be self respecting dwarfs without some proper names.
 
Very annoying second half. We lost a trireme attacking a barb galley at 96% (bloody bulldroppings losing at those odds, one thing I really hate about the game). Meaning we've now lost most of our fishing nets, mainly due to AI WBs just wandering on to them whenever the barb is chasing.

As regards diplo we refused a stop trade request on Willem vO from Ragnar, and the next turn we accepted one on Ragnar from Isabella (he's WE on both, so I think hes shaping up as the neighbourhood pariah).

Spoiler :
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As regards the wonder, we've to road the Copper and we've it connected. We're 14 (I think, too annoyed to go back in and check) turns from completion. We're safe as all AIs still want MC.

My micro wasn't great after about turn 156 (due mainly to the trireme loss)

The logs:
Spoiler SGOTM :
Turn 154, 290 BC: You have trained a Trireme in Orleans. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 155, 275 BC: Napoleon's Trireme 1 (Orleans) (2.00) vs Barbarian's Galley (1.22)
Turn 155, 275 BC: Combat Odds: 96.0%
Turn 155, 275 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 155, 275 BC: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 155, 275 BC: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 155, 275 BC: Napoleon's Trireme 1 (Orleans) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 155, 275 BC: Napoleon's Trireme 1 (Orleans) is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 155, 275 BC: Napoleon's Trireme 1 (Orleans) is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 155, 275 BC: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 24 (56/100HP)
Turn 155, 275 BC: Napoleon's Trireme 1 (Orleans) is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 155, 275 BC: Napoleon's Trireme 1 (Orleans) is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 155, 275 BC: Napoleon's Trireme 1 (Orleans) is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 155, 275 BC: Napoleon's Trireme 1 (Orleans) is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 155, 275 BC: Barbarian's Galley has defeated Napoleon's Trireme 1 (Orleans)!

Turn 156, 260 BC: Joao II adopts Hereditary Rule!

Turn 158, 230 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Tours!
Turn 158, 230 BC: Joao II will trade Silk

Turn 159, 215 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Tours!
Turn 159, 215 BC: Lyons can hurry Trireme for 1? with 5? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 159, 215 BC: Catherine won't trade Cow
Turn 159, 215 BC: Joao II won't trade Silk

Turn 160, 200 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Tours!


Spoiler for BUFFY :
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 151/750 (335 BC) [17-Apr-2011 20:14:06]
100% Research: 54 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -11 per turn, 21 in the bank

After End Turn:
Lyons grows to size 3
Rheims grows to size 4

Turn 152/750 (320 BC) [17-Apr-2011 20:14:07]
0% Research: 7 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 38 per turn, 10 in the bank

After End Turn:
Lyons finishes: Granary

Turn 153/750 (305 BC) [17-Apr-2011 20:15:02]
Lyons begins: Galley (15 turns)
Lyons begins: Trireme (15 turns)
0% Research: 7 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 29 per turn, 48 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Orleans
The whip was applied in Rheims
Rheims finishes: Library

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Willem van Oranje (Netherlands) towards Isabella (Spain), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 154/750 (290 BC) [17-Apr-2011 20:16:31]
Rheims begins: Settler (19 turns)
Orleans begins: Settler (25 turns)
0% Research: 3 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 27 per turn, 77 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Orleans
Whip anger has decreased in Lyons
Orleans finishes: Trireme

Turn 155/750 (275 BC) [17-Apr-2011 20:17:32]
While attacking, Trireme 1 (Orleans) escapes from Barbarian Galley (Prob Victory: 96.0%)
While attacking in French territory at Orleans, Trireme 1 (Orleans) loses to Barbarian Galley (1.12/2) (Prob Victory: 96.0%)
0% Research: 3 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 27 per turn, 104 in the bank

Turn 156/750 (260 BC) [17-Apr-2011 20:18:33]
Diplomacy (Embargo Request): Ragnar (Vikings) asks Napoleon (France) to stop trading with Willem van Oranje (Netherlands); Napoleon REFUSES.
0% Research: 3 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 27 per turn, 131 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 4

Other Player Actions:
A Fishing Boats was destroyed near Tours
A Fishing Boats near Tours was destroyed by Barbarian Galley
Civics Change: Joao II(Portugal) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

Turn 157/750 (245 BC) [17-Apr-2011 20:19:22]
Diplomacy (Embargo Request): Isabella (Spain) asks Napoleon (France) to stop trading with Ragnar (Vikings); Napoleon AGREES.
0% Research: 3 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 29 per turn, 158 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Catherine (Russia) towards Isabella (Spain), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 158/750 (230 BC) [17-Apr-2011 20:20:26]
100% Research: 47 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -11 per turn, 187 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Paris

Turn 159/750 (215 BC) [17-Apr-2011 20:21:42]
100% Research: 47 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -11 per turn, 176 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Catherine (Russia) towards Napoleon (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Isabella (Spain) towards Joao II (Portugal), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 160/750 (200 BC) [17-Apr-2011 20:22:08]
A Mine was built near Tours


Ending shots:
Spoiler nothing impressive :
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Nice picture of London.
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I think that barb galley (which killed both a galley and a trireme at low odds, the galley at 30% the trireme at 4%) has killed us for placing in the game. I think from now on we build a trireme for every fishing net we place.

And this is one time I wish there wasn't an autocensor on the site. I want to swear up a blue storm, and loud!

Edit: I forgot to rename names, so you can feel safe yet Benginal.
 

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Sucks about the barb trireme. I'll be curious to see if other teams run into the same problem. Because I could have told you, and we all could have, that barb galleys suck majorly. But it just seems wasteful to build a ton of boats for protection when we have so few hammers. I think it might come back to just dumb luck on barb boats in many ways. Although I'll bet PD and OSS have some brilliant way to deal with them. Like winning at 96% odds, :blush:.

Anyway, I agree about cancelling borders with Ragnar. Good call. We might be able to dogpile and get an easy city or two.

Other than that I'm out. I'll have a look at the save sometime soon and get back with more details.

I think drlake is up next?
 
You can alwys try swearing in french, I'm sure I can complain about this putain de galère de merde without the corrector noticing.
Ok, I can't see the iron on the screentests ! Where do we have it ?


Joao has monarchy, shall we deal for it ? is Metal casting enough for him, or shall we start spreading MC around, then have some more for Joao to deal ?

I don't mind forgetting about a rush in favour of some serious rexing. There is another gold site, the horse site, the dye islands. I think we can put some of our bloodthirtiness on hold for now.
 
This is my official "got it." I'll look over the situation and post some comments and questions shortly.

EDIT: Initial comments

Paris (rename to Ankh-Morpork?) should finish the Colossus in less than 9 turns with no whipping (Copper hooked up in a couple of turns), or maybe 4-5 using the whip once copper is connected. My inclination is to just build it out, rather than whip at this point. That'll allow the population to grow a bit, for either bigger whips or working more tiles. It needs two fishing boats, a library, and a monument after the Colossus is done.

Orleans (rename to ?) will finish the Settler in 10 turns. I assume the settler should be put on the island to the E to grab the Iron (my inclination is to settle 1S of the Iron, but we need to talk about that). I can get the Settler production down to 8 turns if I take the Scientist and work a coast tile instead. After the Settler is done, we need a workboat, a Granary and a Monument for that city.

Lyons (rename to ?) will finish the Trireme in 8 turns. We need a workboat for the Fish, a warrior for garrison (but won't be able to build once we connect the Copper), a worker to mine the GH two south plus some infrastructure, but since that is one of the better production cities we have I'm thinking it might be better used to pop out a few more Triremes.

Rheims (rename to ?) will finish the Settler in 8 turns. It really needs a warrior for garrison (ditto on building one), a Granary, a Monument, and a boat to put the Settler on.

Tours (rename to ?) will finish the Workboat in 6 turns. It really needs a garrison, a Monument, a Granary, and then lots of other stuff. The worker can be moved to mine the GH south of Lyons after roading the Copper.

Tech is Currency in 3 turns. Once we have the Colossus, we can trade around MC and backfill our techs nicely, and since we're at the bottom of the power list no one will be reluctant to trade with us. I'd say backfill everything we can using Alpha/MC, maybe hold Currency back for something juicy (I think we can get Math and Monarchy for MC. I suggest Aesthetics next, for trading, and Lit for the GL.

We need a few more Triremes just to keep the barbs under control, and allow us to work fishing boats. We may need to whip some of those. I think this turn set will have to focus on supporting expansion, though we'll get those two settlers out, by building up our defenses and infrastructure.
 
Anyone out there? I can run the turn set any of the next four nights (it is Thursday morning here) so the minute we have a plan I can get this done. When I get home from work, I'll look things over again and post dot-maps of suggested cities and think about the build queues.
 
Paris (rename to Ankh-Morpork?) should finish the Colossus in less than 9 turns with no whipping (Copper hooked up in a couple of turns), or maybe 4-5 using the whip once copper is connected. My inclination is to just build it out, rather than whip at this point. That'll allow the population to grow a bit, for either bigger whips or working more tiles. It needs two fishing boats, a library, and a monument after the Colossus is done.

I agree with not whipping the wonder. And the build order sounds good to me. I count at least 5 WBs needed immediately, with Tours already building one, so 2 quick WBs for the clams would be a good idea. Longer term I think we'll want to start on Moai after the library/monument to take full advantage of a Bureaucracy hammer boost.

Orleans (rename to ?) will finish the Settler in 10 turns. I assume the settler should be put on the island to the E to grab the Iron (my inclination is to settle 1S of the Iron, but we need to talk about that). I can get the Settler production down to 8 turns if I take the Scientist and work a coast tile instead. After the Settler is done, we need a workboat, a Granary and a Monument for that city.

Yes - Iron city should be our next priority. We should be able to move the worker over there from Tours, so maybe we should send the galley near Orleans down that way and then come back for the settler.

Lyons (rename to ?) will finish the Trireme in 8 turns. We need a workboat for the Fish, a warrior for garrison (but won't be able to build once we connect the Copper), a worker to mine the GH two south plus some infrastructure, but since that is one of the better production cities we have I'm thinking it might be better used to pop out a few more Triremes.

I think, at minimum we need 4 triremes. One for Paris, one for Orleans/Iron city, one for Rheims, and one for Tours/Lyons. I think as long as we don't have Hunting we can still build warriors with the metal connected.

Rheims (rename to ?) will finish the Settler in 8 turns. It really needs a warrior for garrison (ditto on building one), a Granary, a Monument, and a boat to put the Settler on.

Tours (rename to ?) will finish the Workboat in 6 turns. It really needs a garrison, a Monument, a Granary, and then lots of other stuff. The worker can be moved to mine the GH south of Lyons after roading the Copper.

I think we've reached the point where we need another worker, as well. Especially if we are going to expand further, as we intend to do. Tours really doesn't need a border pop to serve it's main purpose (hooking up the copper), so I would build the Granary before the Monument.

Tech is Currency in 3 turns. Once we have the Colossus, we can trade around MC and backfill our techs nicely, and since we're at the bottom of the power list no one will be reluctant to trade with us. I'd say backfill everything we can using Alpha/MC, maybe hold Currency back for something juicy (I think we can get Math and Monarchy for MC. I suggest Aesthetics next, for trading, and Lit for the GL.

Again, don't pick up Hunting in trade until we've built enough warriors for MP duty. We can get Monarchy from Vicky or Joao. I'd trade with Vick, since she is the more backward AI. And I definitely agree with Aesthetics > Lit next.

We need a few more Triremes just to keep the barbs under control, and allow us to work fishing boats. We may need to whip some of those. I think this turn set will have to focus on supporting expansion, though we'll get those two settlers out, by building up our defenses and infrastructure.

I think we also need to explore the map areas to our SE and SW to see if there are any other nearby attractive city sites.

So, overall, the plan looks good to me. We definitely need enough triremes to guard our seafood resources and explore/settle the remainder of our surroundings. That, along with settling the iron, should be our priority. We'll need the navy eventually, so those hammers will be put to good use.
 
It'll work better for me to run the turn set Friday or Saturday night, so I'll plan on doing so tomorrow unless I get a "STOP" from someone before then.

I had forgotten about the Hunting/Warrior thing, so thanks for the reminder. I remember seeing it in an earlier post in this thread, but had forgotten. No trade for Hunting, got it.

Once we get some spare Triremes, exploration is definitely in order! I'd say get our defenses in order first, though, since rebuilding workboats and being unable to work those resources hurts.

Where do you think would be the place to build another worker? Orleans after the Settler is done? Seems like one of the better sites for that, perhaps after the WB to maximize food first.
 
OK, for city location I'm thinking the first city should be the 2 Clam plus Iron location previously mentioned in several posts:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg


I'm torn on the other location. One side of me says "horse and 2 dye city" noted by Brian. On the other hand, it would be nice to get the Marble hooked up and in the near future (after we build out our garrisons and have Hunting) we need to hook up the Fur for happiness. Thoughts?

I was thinking for the second worker, Rheims might be better than Orleans. More potential food, though needs a couple of WBs to really shine.
 
Once we get some spare Triremes, exploration is definitely in order! I'd say get our defenses in order first, though, since rebuilding workboats and being unable to work those resources hurts.

Yes, definitely. Secure our territory first then go exploring. We don't want random barb galleys pillaging again, or preventing us from moving workers and settlers about.

Where do you think would be the place to build another worker? Orleans after the Settler is done? Seems like one of the better sites for that, perhaps after the WB to maximize food first.

Yep, Orleans seems like a good choice.

OK, for city location I'm thinking the first city should be the 2 Clam plus Iron location previously mentioned in several posts:

I would put the city 1W. So that we settle on desert rather than lose the plains tile.

I'm torn on the other location. One side of me says "horse and 2 dye city" noted by Brian. On the other hand, it would be nice to get the Marble hooked up and in the near future (after we build out our garrisons and have Hunting) we need to hook up the Fur for happiness. Thoughts?

I think if we don't take that site, Ragnar will. While having the marble would be good, it would be another crappy resource-grabbing city. It would really depend on how soon we plan on starting the GLib. I think we could delay the fur if we switch to HR. I would rather expand toward the AI at this point, and see more of our surroundings.

I was thinking for the second worker, Rheims might be better than Orleans. More potential food, though needs a couple of WBs to really shine.

It might not hurt to have one build a worker and the other a settler.
 
Ah, right, 1W of where I marked works better for the Iron/Clam/Clam city.

Yep, I agree. Next city I would put on top of the marble. It won't be a production powerhouse, but it has 2 seafood resources and should be pretty good.

edit: After that, I think we will have enough cities and should concentrate on developing the ones we have.
 
Yep, I agree. Next city I would put on top of the marble. It won't be a production powerhouse, but it has 2 seafood resources and should be pretty good.

edit: After that, I think we will have enough cities and should concentrate on developing the ones we have.

You would go on the marble, rather than go for the Horse/Dye location? Or 1SW of the Marble, which loses a Clam but gets the Horse and has a much higher base production?
 
My feeling is that we should investigate any potential nearby locations in the fog to the SE before we decide where to settle after the Iron city.
 
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