SGOTM 04 - Geezers

Harbourboy said:

Can't we just trade Monarchy off him instead of Calendar?

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Nooo.no..no..no. We want as much as he is willing to give up.

Harbourboy said:

Looking forward to seeing your expert city management skills at work to get our empire tuned up and humming. I guess a settler is not far off being built as well.

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No experties yet but I am working on it. Been practicing to play WOTM7 (Robert_the_Bruce's Gyathaar inspired version-actually I added horses to the second city) and found how much mm help to stay with the pack and monger. Team Tao, my civ 3 team, was into mm extensively and I learned a lot from them. I stopped doing mm for civ 4 until recently and started after reading team CRC SGOTM2. Oops getting off topic. Yes there will be a new City soon.

Sam_Yeager said:

Calendar is only 25% researched. In addition I'm fairly certain that the AI is more willing to part with techs that are part researched. So it may be worth our while to part research the techs we want, where we are able to do so e.g. MC & Monarchy.

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I am going to start Compass. It needed 8 turns at 100% so it may take all 10. I will check what Kahn is willing to give up as his cities fall to determine what to start next. Most likely CS.

Sam_Yeager said:

I'm more relaxed about the timescale for completely wiping out Khan. I agree we want a trireme or so soonish but that's more for scouting Ghandhi's land and killing off Khan's trireme.

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Agree about trireme but I just lost 6 cats, 4 swords and 4 axes to 3 LB's last week in a practice game. So I am a bit concerned. But the city was on a hill and they had garrison2.

Sam_Yeager said:

Would it not be better to build a trireme in Yayoi after rushing the lib? I would prefer a trireme before a galley in Nidaros first. I still think my suggestion of starting and rushing the settler in Niadaros before finishing the lib has merit i.e. we get the settler faster and the lib is only delayed a turn or so more than it would have been originally.

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We would get a trireme without 3 movements, so no. Nidaros need to be rushed for 2 pop. Right now it take 3 turns to build the lib and with mm grow in 6 (going by mem). If we let the city finish the Lib and then pop a settler on 5 th turn, it will grow back up to happy limit. No loss in production. Settler need a few turn to settle anyways untill we take out those two cities. Trireme is better than a Galley. Thanks.

Sam_Yeager said:

You've got three swords, three cats and a couple of spears to take Chehalis & Samarqand. I don't see a need to reduce El Do's forces.

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We have six city's to take out still and why take a chance of RNG Murphy showing up. They need promotions too. If the first city fall easily, I may rush the Settler early.

I like the idea of starting a Trading Post before expanding the navy. A bit like the Financial trait, there is no point in being Vikings if you're not going to leverage all their strengths.

Having lost Great Library, do we plan on getting any further wonders?

Been practicing to play WOTM7

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None of my practice seems to have helped on that one

Htadus said:

I am going to start Compass. It needed 8 turns at 100% so it may take all 10. I will check what Kahn is willing to give up as his cities fall to determine what to start next. Most likely CS.

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Fine with you starting Compass but my point was that Khan may be more willing to give up MC if we've put a turn or so into it before we ask for it as part of a peace deal.

Htadus said:

We have six city's to take out still and why take a chance of RNG Murphy showing up. They need promotions too. If the first city fall easily, I may rush the Settler early.

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Neither Chehalis or Samarqand are on hills or have walls (yet). So you don't need additional military to take them down. I don't particularly want to weaken El Do's military, or leave gold mines by the sea without military, in case Ghandhi is tempted to send over another expeditionary force. For the same reason I'm keen to get our commerce city settled asap before Ghandhi gets any ideas.

More weird graphs coming through from other teams. Ours is the only one that seems to make any sense. I hope we win (lose).

Hi all,

I've been out of pocket, took some time off to play golf down in Myrtle Beach (South Carolina, USA).

Looks like you've made a shambles of the nutcase to the south! Nice to see Mr. Khan knocked back into the dark ages. Only thing I would have done different... I probably would have kept his cities. Karakhorum and Turfan for sure. I think they may have provided a quicker path to getting back into the tech race. He had some nice cottages going, now we need resettle and rebuild population to start working them.

My comments on the bigger picture... I would go ahead and evict Kahn from our continent. No reason to leave him hanging around to bug us. Samarqand and Chebalis should be razed to make room for "commerce city", I probably would keep New Sarai and Ning-hsai. Not that they are great cities, but why waste time building settlers?

In fact, I think I'd REX for a while and settle the whole continent. Life will be much simpler if we only need to defend attacks from the sea. If we let Kahn hang around... or Ghandi get a foothold on our mainland, then life gets more complicated. We need to get into serious science mode. We aren't going to catch up with only 5-8 cities. We can build courthouses, time to expand. I would send my first settler to "commerce city" so Ghandi doesn't get any expansionist ideas, then follow with a couple to the fertile southlands previously held be Khan.

Ooh, it's The Hawk. He's like some sort of shadowy mentor. A bit like "The Sphinx" in Mystery Men. But to be a really wise mentor, you need to make your advice a bit more cryptic and less grammatically correct. Maybe something like:

"If to crush a spider you seek, be sure to remove all its fangs you must."

or

"The path to true knowledge starts at the cottage door."

Harbourboy said:

Ooh, it's The Hawk. He's like some sort of shadowy mentor. A bit like "The Sphinx" in Mystery Men. But to be a really wise mentor, you need to make your advice a bit more cryptic and less grammatically correct.

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Personally I prefer suggestions to be readily understandable. Thanks for your thoughts The-Hawk.

So are we going to keep any of Khan's remaining cities?

I am on turn 8 and met Hanibal and he is willing to trade Mono and Monarchy + 30g for Lit and CoL. We are about to learn Compus next turn. I am a free tech trader and would like to trade now but should I wait untill next turn and try to get the best out of it.

On my turn 4 Kahn got Longbows. He has 1 to 4 in each of his continental Cities.

We have our commerce city HaithaGems and our science is only sustainable at 30 %.

Barbs set up a city on top of Khans Horses. I am about to capture Beshbalic. We need to discuss if to keep these remaining Cities. I am inclined to go along with the Hawk on this.

BTW Gandhi is running Bureaucracy and I think Kahn is sending settlers back. We need a plan of attack. Should we wait on the trades and try to get some thing like CS for all we got? Take a look.

Interesting stuff. I'm not very good at the finer points of tech trading, but it sounds sensible to wait a turn to give yourself more to trade with, but I don't really know for sure.

As for which cities to keep. Each one will add significant amounts of maintenance, but those coastal cities could be lucrative quickly for Financial Ragnar as you don't need to wait for cottages to mature. Beshbalik has 3 food resources so may well be able to pay for itself, but I haven't done the maths.

Barbarian city is just another source of quick cash when you raze it.

Might be worth waiting to see if anyone has a view.

I don't see any reason to wait a turn for trading. Next turn you have compass and can do the next trade. 3 techs for CS seems a little high a price to me. Wait a minute, do we get zerks with CS ?

Does Gandhi have CS already ?

As we have COL now we could keep cities that will be of use. New and Old Sarai look ok. Beshbalik I am not sure. It has only two workable land tiles all others are sea tiles. Doesn't look like a keeper to me.

markh said:

3 techs for CS seems a little high a price to me. Wait a minute, do we get zerks with CS ?

Does Gandhi have CS already ?

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I believe we need Machinery before we get zerks. Htadus reported earlier that Ghandhi is running Bureaucracy.

EDIT: I agree that Beshbalik is not worth keeping. We can settle a better city later.

Harbourboy said:

"If to crush a spider you seek, be sure to remove all its fangs you must."

or

"The path to true knowledge starts at the cottage door."

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Urmmm... sound like Yoda, you do...

Wait... did someone just say cottage? My favorite (CIV) word!

I agree on Beshbalik... not worth keeping.

/Edit: Hadn't seen that Htadus posted a save. Took a look. Some more comments:

- We might want to get a unit from El Do over to Haithagems. Looks like a prime place for Ghandi to land a pillage raid.

- These longbows are gonna suck... after finishing Beshbalik, you might want to consolidate our army into one stack. The lbows are going to require some numbers.

- In the mean time, I would converge the other units (not attacking Beshbalik) to New Sarai. There is a settler there... if Khan is stupid enough to send him out with a couple of the lbows as escort, we want units nearby to take over the city... and maybe bushwhack the settling party for good measure.

It's all getting very exciting. I can't wait to see what happens next. I wonder how our dealings with Hannibal will go. I wonder who else we will encounter next......

Remember the old Batman show from the 60s (I saw it in reruns!)? Harbourboy reminds me of the announcer that would come on before the commercials. Will the heros survive .... stay tuned!

Jenarie said:

Remember the old Batman show from the 60s (I saw it in reruns!)? Harbourboy reminds me of the announcer that would come on before the commercials. Will the heros survive .... stay tuned!

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Thats funny. And so is Harbourboy. And I am delirious without sleep.

By the way, nm !!! No Massacre?

Sum: Hanny has Landed and he has a settler lost in our continent with an axe. Khan lost 3 more Cities. I sent a worker astray instead of improving Sugarcane. We are learning MC since Khan became embolden once he got Feud. But nothing will change the final out come. Bringing units back.

0500 AD (Turn 200) Mm Cap to grow in 7 and build Lib in 3. Switch Yayuoi to Outpost. Switch Iron SHeep to Market. Compass in 8. Khan is ready to give 270g, 3 gpt, Medit and Mono for peace. Move Units toward future Gem-ville.
IBT: Thucydides say we are only culturally better than Khan. Grrrr.

0515 AD (Turn 201) Upps and Eldo revolt. Grrrr x 2 . We are at the door step of Chehalis. Switch and rush Lib in Che. Mm Cap to grow in 5. Collosus is built far away. Send Chariots to recon Ning-H to find a Barb sword. . Moving units South. Fortified all the units in cities and protecting tiles to get the benefit. Set units to heal and promote an axe as a medic.
IBT: Barb Sword attack and the Chariot survive.

0530 AD (Turn 202) Chehalis fall to a Cat and a sword. Get 1 worker???? If we kept it it would have cost us 4 gpt more. So switching Cap to a Settler. Moves units to take Samarqand.

0545 AD (Turn 203) Samarquand is history lost a Cat. No workers??? Rush settler. Move troops to New Sarai.

0560 AD (Turn 204) Kahn just got Longbows. Cap: Settler>Lib. Moved units to begin Bombard Coastal city. Move 2 units to aid the chariot by Ning-h. Gathering near New Sarai which has 3 LB archer and a Settler.

0575 AD (Turn 205) Cap: Lib>Trireme. Rush outpost in Upps but the rioting continued. Start bombarding Beshbalic.

0590 AD (turn 206) Start bombarding New Sarai which has been attacked by Barb swords???. hence promoted.
IBT: Barb sword kill Spear. Ning-H had a cat and 2 Lbows.

0605 AD (Turn 207) Founded HaithaGems as planned. Start moving the Trireme south. Cont Bombardment. Rush Market in ElDo. No more riots.

0620 AD (Turn 208) Meet Hani and he will trade Mono and Monarchy plus 30g for Lit and CoL. We are about to learn Compass. I will hold for the moment To talk to the team.
Cont. After looking at the trades, we trade Col for Monarchy. We loose less than getting Mono and Monarchy. This way next turn we have more expensive tech to combine with Lit to may be get more. Moving Axe from Cap to ElDo and Axe from eldo to HaithaGems per Hawks observation.
IBT: Barb galley attack our Trireme and die.

0635 AD (Turn 209) Learn Compass and start Metal Casting. Yayuoi completes Outpost and start Trireme. Healing Trireme for 5 turns. Hanibal has a Galley in Beshbalic. Not a good sign. All Hanibal want to give us is Mono plus 30g for either or both Lit and Compass. Humm. After much haggeling he gave us Calander and 30g. We need calander now. Hanny landed an Axe and a settler.

0650 AD (Turn 210) Beshbalic is history and no losses. Moving the unused axes and spear to Barb city. Split the New Sarai team to two tiles. Accidentally moved a worker past the sugar to hill. Please build the plantation. Fortified Axe at HaithaGems. Upps: Cat>Cat. Hannies Axe and the Settler is out of sight.

Save
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Geezers_SG004_AD0650_01.CivWarlordsSave

Roater
Thrallia - skipped until he reports back
Htadus - just played
Sam- UP
Jenarie- on deck
Mark
Harbourboy

Ooh, it's all happening. I guess I'm getting the answer to my Hannibal question earlier than planned. Shame we are so culturally inferior (according to Thucydides) otherwise we could try to outculture the upcoming Carthaginian city. We can't really go to war with him until we've met more people because we need the tech trading to keep running hot.

Nice work, Htadus.

I'll have a look at the save later today when I get home. I won't be playing before tomorrow evening so there's plenty of time for comments. First thoughts are that we may want to leave the barb city until we are ready to settle that area to prevent Hannibal grabbing the spot instead.