SGOTM 05 - Geezers

Good set !

I think it is right to go for optics. We need some escorts for our galleys to be able to stay connected with our cities. CS will get cheaper along the way.

I noticed that Toku settled another 2 or 3 cities. We need to do something about this.

I will have a look at the game tonight, but I will not play today, so I let everybody have a look and comment before starting to play.

Nice to see that we've tripled our galleys AgedOne.

Thanks to the loss of our fishing grounds both Corinth & Turfan are starving. I would Corinth for the Xbow. If we switch Turfan to a keshik or sword then we can it next turn. Then we can start a forge there. Alternatively we can have it contribute another 6 by running research? The lib in New Sarai is definitely . Let's start a courthouse there as it's costing 8 at present.

I think we should move that HA out of Toku's lands. Together with some of the forces from Corinth we can probably take out Toku's new cities. Alternatively perhaps the HA can see if Toku has rebuilt his gold mine for us to pillage again?

I can only see one caravel (Qin) now. Have all the others gone elsewhere?

How on earth did Sally manage to colonise that land to the NE of Old Sarai?

EDIT: We seem to be a bit short on cats in Corinth. I think I would inclined to Athens next turn and start on another cat. That cat on the copper by Athens should also be transported across to Corinth as well.

Sam_Yeager said:

The lib in New Sarai is definitely . Let's start a courthouse there as it's costing 8 at present.

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Yes. I think my head was getting a bit wrecked at the end of a long day at work followed by my session. At least it hasn't actually started building yet and can be switched at no loss.

Sam_Yeager said:

I can only see one caravel (Qin) now. Have all the others gone elsewhere?

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I think I saw both Qin's second caravel, and Cyrus' one head off. I seem to recall they both headed westwards.

change New Sarai to a courthouse
change Turfan to a lighthouse
mm for more gold -> optics in 6 now and we have no deficit any more at 40%

IBT : nothing

1) 1406AD : we get our prophet in Athens
mm for even more gold and we at +2gpt now

IBT : a Persian caravel appears west of Athens

Originally I thought of getting the prophet over to Corinth to settle him there, but it will be risky as the galley will have to stay at sea for a turn.

2) 1412AD : just moving some galleys

IBT : Beshbalik : cat -> cat

Cyrus' galley disappears NE. There are two barb galles in his North. Maybe those distracted him.

3) 1418AD : just some mm

IBT : we get optics -> civil service (22 turns)

4) 1424AD : load the prophet on a galley, should be safe in the IBT

attack Shimonoseki with a Keshik at 76% odds. The Keshik retreats.
Move the sword, axe and catapult to this weakly defended city

Make a caravel priority in Karakorum

IBT : Toku moves out an axe, longbow and settler from Kagoshima

5) 1430AD : prophet is unloaded at Corinth

IBT : nothing

6) 1436AD : settle the prophet in Corinth

our sword, axe and cat close in on Shimonoseki

whip a caravel in Karakorum

IBT : a loaded Asoka galley appears N of Corinth, (a longbow and a settler)

Corinth : crossbow -> catapult
Karakorum : caravel -> Keshik

7) 1442AD : axe kills the defending axe in Shimonoseki and we raze the city for 39 gold

sell bananas to Saladin for 3gpt

This enables us to research at 50% at -5gpt, 85 in the kitty and civil service in 13

Qin and Cyrus move their caravels towards our caravel that just left Karakorum

IBT : Turfan : lighthouse -> caravel

8) 1448AD : our sneaking galley carrying a sword and a cat unloads it's freight at Corinth

IBT : Qin's caravel sinks ours

trade stone for sugar to Saladin

9) 1454AD : not much

IBT : Athens : crossbowman -> caravel

10) 1460AD : just moving galleys

For the next player :

Ning Hsia can whip the forge next turn. I put together a small stack East of Corinth. There must be a settler, axe and longbow somewhere South of them.
We are at 50% research at -3gpt and CS in 9, so research is getting better.

Folks, I'm going to be out of pocket through the weekend. I'd better skip this cycle.

I am still concerned we are fighting a loosing battle of the seas. For every caravel we build, Cyrus and Qin will build 3-4 between them. I'd rather spend those hammers on units and galleys to carry them. We will lose a few, but I don't think sacrificing a couple of caravels will prevent that. Once we establish more production on lush island, we convert the original island to commerce. (PS. I do not have a real strong opinion on this, just a gut feel... as always, I defer to the consensus of the team.)

What about the FP ? I think we should start it soon. In last games we tended to forget this thing. Corinth could build it in about 15 turns if mmed for hammers. Any thoughts ?

Roster

Sam - on deck
drhirsch (automatically skipped until he reports back)
Harbourboy (away from 11th Sep - 4th Oct)
AgedOne
markh - just played
The-Hawk - (away from 14th Sep - 16th Sep)
Pariah - UP

markh said:

What about the FP ? I think we should start it soon. In last games we tended to forget this thing. Corinth could build it in about 15 turns if mmed for hammers. Any thoughts ?

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I fully understand your point about overlooking the FP in the past. However surely we need to start seeing if we can do something about the AI as well? Do you think it's realistic to start thinking about taking and keeping some of Toku's cities? If not then I would prefer to keep building units until it is realistic.

The-Hawk has a good point about the problems with naval domination. The reason that it is a problem is the fact that we still need to transfer troops from the homeland. We really need to have enough cities to do this on the mainland. The main question is whether we found new cities or take them from the AI. If we are going to take them then we need sufficient forces first.

Perhaps we should also see about getting those workers from silver island back on the home island to start clearing out the jungle so that we can found additional cities to work the grasslands.

It is somewhat depressing to realise that it is 1460 AD, several of the AI have Civil Service, although not necessarily maces, and we have precisely one city on the lush island.

Sometimes the AIs have civil service long before they get machinery, so maces can appear a little later.

The FP will enable us to settle or take some cities on lush island without killing our research. It is not so welcome in the shortterm to take Corinth out of unit production now, but I think the longterm gain outweighs that. Corinth can build it relatively fast. IIRC it was 13 turns mming Corinth for hammers. With whipping I think we could get it done during the next turnset. If it times perfectly we can finish the FP with the research of CS, so Corinth can start building maces immediately. It is our best production city at the moment and IMO the timing for the FP now is the best one. After CS is done we will want loads of units.

I thought of keeping Shimonoseki, but it was too near to Phoenician where Toku has 8 or 9 units, so I razed it. We should build some roads around Corinth towards possible city sites, so shuffling units can be done quickly. Definitely we should keep Toku busy razing his newly founded cities, so he keeps building settlers and defenders. Once we have civil service we should upgrade our axes and swords. We have some nicely promoted ones. Put together a stack and go for Phoenician first. He will have Samurais soon and this could get ugly.

markh said:

The FP will enable us to settle or take some cities on lush island without killing our research. It is not so welcome in the shortterm to take Corinth out of unit production now, but I think the longterm gain outweighs that.

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Good point about the research. On balance I think you're correct to go for the FP.

markh said:

I thought of keeping Shimonoseki, but it was too near to Phoenician where Toku has 8 or 9 units, so I razed it. We should build some roads around Corinth towards possible city sites, so shuffling units can be done quickly. Definitely we should keep Toku busy razing his newly founded cities, so he keeps building settlers and defenders. Once we have civil service we should upgrade our axes and swords. We have some nicely promoted ones. Put together a stack and go for Phoenician first. He will have Samurais soon and this could get ugly.

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I'm sorry if you thought I was criticising the decision to raze Shimonoseki, which I wasn't, although I admit my comments may give that impression. It was more that it reminded me that we were still quite light on cities on lush island.

OK guys, I just got the save. Who thinks I should prioritize caravels or galleys this turn cycle? Can we maintain our position on the mainland with just our existing forces?

Sam_Yeager said:

I'm sorry if you thought I was criticising the decision to raze Shimonoseki, which I wasn't, although I admit my comments may give that impression. It was more that it reminded me that we were still quite light on cities on lush island.

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Oh, I did not took your comment as criticism. I thought of it as a normal question. I just wanted to say that I was thinking the same way as you. I really sat there for a few minutes thinking whether to raze that city or not, but I thought we want CS fastest possible and with keeping Shimonoseki we would have had another big hit on our economy. Maintenance would have been 11 or 12 at least I guess.

Pariah said:

OK guys, I just got the save. Who thinks I should prioritize caravels or galleys this turn cycle? Can we maintain our position on the mainland with just our existing forces?

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Maybe we do not need as many caravels as I ordered. I think 1 or 2 would be nice to cover our galleys.

If nothing dramatically happens the units on lush island should be enough at the moment. As I mentioned I would seriously consider to build the FP in Corinth while completing Civil Service.

Please do not forget to whip the forge in Ning Hsia next turn.

@Pariah

markh said:

I put together a small stack East of Corinth. There must be a settler, axe and longbow somewhere South of them.

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Don't forget to track this lot down.

I would like to add my vote to the idea of building our FP in Corinth. We've just got to move our productive area across from our homeland onto Lush Continent. An FP, followed by another couple of cities - linked up by roads to Corinth - looks like the start. Just hope we can get this under way before the Samurai begin striking!

I would concentrate on galleys, with just 2 or 3 caravels (in total) to help guard them.

We've got to get beyond the point where we fear a massive attack from the AI, and get there fast! I just don't know if we can do it quick enough. But surely that's the situation we must set our sights on: a power base on Lush Continent, and Maces.

Right - so my aims are:

rush completion of a forge in Ning-hsia;
start building Forbidden Palace in Corinth;
track down & kill enemy units and settler(s) in that area;
build a few galleys, plus 2 caravels for protection.

Pariah said:

Right - so my aims are:

rush completion of a forge in Ning-hsia;
start building Forbidden Palace in Corinth;
track down & kill enemy units and settler(s) in that area;
build a few galleys, plus 2 caravels for protection.

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Sounds good. Have fun !

Have you had a chance to play yet Pariah?

Start (1460):
*Moved Ning-hsia citizen from cottage to copper mine, hoping to reduce penalty for forge.

IBT:
*Barbarian axeman approaches Yokohama.
*Largest civilizations listing: Cyrus 1st, Isabella 2nd, Tokugawa 3rd... Temujin 7th.
*Indian galley with settler & longbowman north of Athens Island.

Turn 1 (1466):
*Keshik on home island promoted C1. Sentry on hill.
*Lushland main stack - wounded axeman back to Corinth. Rest 1W from forest hill.
*Catapult in Beshbalik promoted barrage 1. Move to Old Sarai.
*Galley move to Old Sarai.
*Old Sarai 3 units promoted, fortified.
*2 galleys off Athens Island move to intercept Indian galley.

IBT:
*Persian galley appears N of Corinth, with maceman & horse archer.

Turn 2 (1472):
*Catapult finished in Corinth, both catapults there promoted barrage 1. City growth stagnant, so choose to build lighthouse next (8 turns).
*Catapult in main stack also promoted barrage 1. Stack move NE.
*Both crossbowmen in Corinth promoted CG1, fortify.
*Corinth swordsman promoted shock, fortify.
*New stack formed in Corinth: 2 catapults, keshik & CR3 axeman. Move 2 SE towards Yokohama.
*Silver Island workers: 1 building farm S of New Sarai, 1 moved onto iron tile to build road.
*Keshik & catapult in Old Sarai board galley, head for Silver Island.
*Attack Indian galley: enemy destroyed, 1 of our galleys lost. Remaining galley damaged 1.7/2. I consider the exchange worthwhile, to prevent the Indians founding a new city.
*Injured axeman back in Corinth.

IBT:
*Persian horse archer & maceman land in forest NE of Corinth.

Turn 3 (1478):
*New stack moves SE again.
*Main stack moves back W towards Corinth, in case they are needed to fight Persians. Given the enemy's 50% defence bonus in forest, did not attack from city this turn.
*Galley fortified til healled.
*Civil Service in 5 turns, -2 gpt.

IBT:
*Japanese C2 galley with longbowman & settler appears, S of Athens Island.
*Barbarian galleys proliferate, but do not engage any enemy ships.
*Persian units near Corinth separate.

Turn 4 (1484):
*Move galley near Athens S to intercept Japanese galley.
*Worker near Turfan W to mine hill.
*Worker 2S of New Sarai finishes road, now building cottage.
*Keshik & catapult land on north tip of Silver Island, for safety.
*Main stack continues back towards Corinth.

IBT:
*Persian horse archer emerges from forest and pillages Corinth iron mine. Maceman moves onto mine hill.
*Barbarian axeman finishes pillaging improvements around Yokohama.

Turn 5 (1490):
*Main stack moves onto cottage S of mine hill. Combat odds against Persian maceman are 1%, exchange may be very costly while enemy has high ground. I feel stupid for not putting a Corinth defender on the mine hill first...
*Corinth swordsman & C3 axeman attack and destroy Persian horse archer. Swordsman damaged 4.8/6, 8/5 XPs. Both units safely returned to city.
*Keshik & catapult back aboard galley, move E & SE. Athens galley moves to same tile. Now may have a better chance against Japanese galley.
*Silver Island chariot promoted C1. Move worker onto same tile.
*Corinth lighthouse in 6 turns, with iron mine gone. Borders expand, can now see all land to S coast.
*Cost of forge in Ning-hsia still 2 pop. Unwilling to make that sacrifice.

IBT:
*Persian maceman destroys mine on hill.
*Japanese galley 2W.

Turn 6 (1496):
*Discover Feudalism! Change civics to adopt Bureaucracy.
*Discover Civil Service. Stick with Slavery for rush completions. Researching Guilds next (24 turns, +2 gpt).
*Catapult complete in Beshbalik, promoted drill 1. Next build: maceman.
*1 worker boards galey at Silver Island. Both galleys 2E; keshik & catapult land on Athens Island.
*Corinth swordsman promoted C2.
*New stack now 1NE of Yokohama.
*Main stack moves onto iron tile.

IBT:
*Barbarian swordsman moves next to Kaifeng.
*Persian maceman holds position on hill, destroys road.

Turn 7 (1502):
*2 galleys SE around Athens Island. Keshik & catapult across land to E.
*New stack catapults commence bombardment of Yokohama. Defences down to 14%.
*Unsure whether to sacrifice main stack units attacking that annoying Persian maceman. Split main stack: CG1 catapult into Corinth, CR2/C2 axeman joins units in field. Stack this with CR1 catapult & CR2 swordsman, send this trio towards Yokohama. Move swordsman out of Corinth. Now have 2 swordsmen & 1 axeman fortified on iron tile.
*Change production in Beshbalik to longbowman (15 turns).

IBT:
*Persian maceman attacks our stack on iron tile. 1 swordsman lost; enemy unit damaged 1.8/6.
*Japanese galley reaches Silver Island; longbowman & settler land on ruins of Delphi.

Turn 8 (1508):
*Swordman & axeman attack Persian maceman. Enemy destroyed (at last!); axeman damaged 2.9/5, 11/17 XPs.
*Yokohama defences reduced to 8%.
*Separate 2 galleys. Drill 1 catapult reboards galley, move 2W back toward Silver Island, as we have new enemies there.
*Other galley, with worker, continues E & NE. Keshik boards.
*Chariot retreats to New Sarai.
*Move worker to jungle FW hill 2NW of Ning-hsia.
* forge in Ning-hsia, as it only costs 1 pop, now. Still more happy citizens than unhappy! Next build: longbowman.

IBT:
*New Japanese city, Matsuyama, founded on ruins of Delphi in N of Silver Island.
*Japanese galley back E towards Athens.

Turn 9 (1514):
*Athens completes caravel. Next build: maceman.
*Caravel sinks Japanese galley; damaged 1.0/3, 2/2 XPs.
*Keshik & worker unload in Corinth.
*Axeman & swordsman return to iron tile, fortify.
*Galley returns to Silver Island. Unload catapult on ruins of Sparta. Chariot moving to join it.
*Worker building road on cottage W of Karakorum.
*Yokohama defences reduced to 2%.

IBT:
*Indian horse archer appears far NE of Corinth, outside border.

Turn 10 (1520):
*Caravel finished in Turfan. Next build: galley. Caravel moved 2N, 1 NE.
*Worker building windmill on jungle FW hill near Ning-hsia.
*Athens caravel promoted drill 1. Fortified in city til healed.
*Worker at Corinth begins rebuilding iron mine.
*Catapult & chariot move into forest E of Matsuyama.
*Yokohama defences down to 0%. Axe, catapult & sword stack almost there; Keshik moving from Corinth to join Yokohama attack.

The new save has been uploaded. Do you guys think I'm going overboard on these turnset summaries?

Pariah said:

The new save has been uploaded. Do you guys think I'm going overboard on these turnset summaries?

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If you're happy to write them then I'm happy to read them. In the end the aim is for the report to mention the main events that happened together with reasons, where necessary, of why certain actions were taken.

I must admit I only normally tend to mention selected worker actions where I think they are relevant. If you look through the thread then you'll see that everyone has different styles of writing up their turnsets. I will often include one or two pics where I think it will complement the report.