While We Wait: Writer's Block & Other Lame Excuses

North King said:

I already have explicitly banned players from my NES, when their orders are shoddy, OOC, or just plain terrible. They ruin immersion for everyone else and detract from the world we're trying to create.

Are you saying I have to give them a second chance if they appeal to you?

Because, if someone tried to force that on me, I would quite earnestly follow azale to wherever he exoduses to.

Click to expand...

This issue is not about players who fail at playing a game, who cannot write orders, or keep the game immersion. to my knowledge no one has complained to me about being kicked out of a game for failing at playing. kicking people out a game for failing is not the same as not letting them play to begin with. Your examples are not part of this discussion.

Birdjaguar said:

I know all about mod commitment NK and what it takes to run a game. Azale is being taken to task because he wants to keep a player out of his game because he heard "bad stuff" about him. His application process was untouched. There is no issue with his selecting who he wanted for key countries. Italy was a second or third tier nation which was opened as first come first served. Please stop trying to make this a broader issue than it is. It has nothing to do with updates. There is no slippery slope or domino effect in play. The only issue is that Azale wants to keep arya126 out of his game and his reason is IOT forum hearsay.

Click to expand...

Don't be coy. This is a slippery slope situation, because you've decided to take the forum into your own hands, and make an executive decision about something which is not your responsibility in any way, shape, or form. I'm a bit sleepy, so I'm not going to double-check this, but maybe you can point out where in the forum rules it says that you are supposed to ensure that every single event on the forum is fair and inclusive towards everyone. The role of a moderator is to keep the forum clean of spam, advertising, flaming, and trolling. Azale's actions, as the moderator for his own thread, do not fall under ANY of these.

Based on this logic of ultimate inclusiveness, social groups should not exist on CFC, since they can discriminate as to who is and is not a member of them. The ignore function should not exist either. Applications should not be permissible, and opt-in threads should not be required since everyone should be permanently opted-in as a matter of inclusion.

This line of argument is crap and the very organization of this forum demonstrates it. You are not our nanny.

Also, if you're going to dismiss my arguments out of hand, I will dismiss yours out of hand as well. Arya submitted things to the thread. They were awful. Thus, he attempted to play, and was booted for terrible play. It is noted IN THE THREAD that these initial submissions are tacit orders previews.

This is the exact same situation, you're just apparently interpreting it in a bizarre way.

To avoid cluttering things up too much, I've sent you a PM, BJ.

Luckymoose said:

I absolutely agree that mod choice has been the norm. I have been barred from positions in favor of others many times before. I prefer this system. This is not IOT, don't make it that way.

We could all leave, if that is what you want us to do Bird.

Click to expand...

Luckymoose said:

So, we are not allowed to keep people out based on their record? Isn't that what applications are for?

Click to expand...

After this post I need to go to bed, I have work in the morning, but I will be back tomorrow.

Lucky, of course I do not want everyone to leave, what a silly thought. if a posters NES record is clearly a problem, I don't have a problem discussing them with the game mod. This is not such a situation. Again, in this game Azale had a selection process for his top nations and left the rest open for all. had arya applied for one of the top nations, he could have been easily denied for his lack of NESing experience.

Like NK above, you are trying to make this into some kind of broad based intrusion into how games are played. it is not.

I repeat: the issue is "can a game mod keep people out of their game for personal reasons."

Should I be able to keep you from posting in NESing because I don't like you or because you have a bad reputation in OT? I would say no. Only after you have demonstrated your unwillingness to behave should I take you to task.

Birdjaguar said:

After this post I need to go to bed, I have work in the morning, but I will be back tomorrow.

Lucky, of course I do not want everyone to leave, what a silly thought. if a posters NES record is clearly a problem, I don't have a problem discussing them with the game mod. This is not such a situation. Again, in this game Azale had a selection process for his top nations and left the rest open for all. had arya applied for one of the top nations, he could have been easily denied for his lack of NESing experience.

Like NK above, you are trying to make this into some kind of broad based intrusion into how games are played. it is not.

I repeat: the issue is "can a game mod keep people out of their game for personal reasons."

Should I be able to keep you from posting in NESing because I don't like you or because you have a bad reputation in OT? I would say no. Only after you have demonstrated your unwillingness to behave should I take you to task.

Click to expand...

This is silly. Some players join NESes just to cause problems with the mod, for personal reasons. It is a known, and sad, part of the community. However, excluding someone just because you feel like it is completely legitimate. You are trying to change the very fabric of NESing through this action, which I can only surmise has been brought about by a specific player complaining. We are adults. We are allowed to choose who we spend our efforts on. If I run a NES and do not wish for you to play in it based on your record, solely for my own reasons, that would be fair. We do not get paid for this. This is done of our own agency. If I do not have a choice on who I spend my free labor on, then I am effectively enslaved to the system.

Birdjaguar said:

Like NK above, you are trying to make this into some kind of broad based intrusion into how games are played. it is not.

Click to expand...

Explain how this is not an intrusion into how games are played. That is quite literally exactly what this is.

You're arguing it's okay to selectively execute these "rules" (which have no basis in the forum rules, are ambiguous BS essentially framed around the concept of "inclusiveness", and are so vaguely worded that you could essentially lock every thread in this forum if you cared to) because you are using your discretion and that should be good enough for us. It's not. Forum rules work because they are unambiguous and fair. You're saying, "I can clamp down on any game I want, but it's okay because I won't." It's about as reassuring as the NSA saying, "Well, yes, we could be eavesdropping on this conversation. But don't worry, we probably aren't!"

I demand answers as to why certain clear forms of discriminating against users such as social groups, ignore, and applications are permissible, yet doing so for quality control is not. This dichotomy is being systematically and deliberately ignored and it is contradictory and illogical.

I did not sign up to some bizarre dictatorial friendship cult, I signed up to an information sharing system. Either CFC should declare its collectivist sunshine and rainbows aims or its representative personnel should back down and adopt a consistent and sensible policy.

Our cause of seeking to determine our own fates is righteous and just, and if, as in these times of darkness, the enemies of freedom would seek to bind our wills to some arbitrary and malicious perversions of justice, then let them be warned that we shall retaliate to the utmost in the name of the preservation of our liberty. Down that path lies mutually assured destruction, but do not believe that we would hesitate to embrace that outcome rather than submit to slavery. All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing, and we shall not be the ones who have to face our children in saying that survival was worth submission. We shall overcome! Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but we shall overcome. We shall fight them on the beaches and in the cities and in the forests and in the hills. We shall never surrender. We shall never surrender until we are free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, free at last! FREE ASSOCIATION TODAY, FREE ASSOCIATION TOMORROW, FREE ASSOCIATION FOREVER!

I am now ignoring arya126 on principle. Ain't no MOD-erator gon' tell me who to talk or listen to. JOIN ME, BROTHERS! Declare your support for freedom of choice! PEACE! BROTHERHOOD! IGNORE!

Extremes: not an effective measure, be it extreme exclusion of inclusion.

If someone was expelled for silly name calling then the exclusion would be silly but for protection of the game? One has to do things by a case by case basis, not “ban exclusion in the name of inclusion.” Balance is the ace in the pack and it should not be thrown away for the sake of one extreme or another.

I relate this to IOTs: at least the admins on NES have played NESes. The admin's position is to ensure things do not get out of hand and that the GMs are not abusive in power. The admin's position is not to dictate via locking an entire thread, hence hindering the community, in "the name of community." The collective requires itself the chance to act like a collective.

Personally a forum gaming section of a forum could have its own council of senior players to allow accountability in administrative affairs; that way the law can be fair and just at the same time.

To generate a alterative however one must first challenge the existing order.

I will hence declare my sympathies and my moral support to the general strike.

Should victory be your destiny then all be well and the collective secure.

Should you face defeat (always have a back up plan!) then consider protesting with mass migration to a forum that was more balanced (points to sig)...

...or make a NES based forum, maybe a joint NES/IOT forum that balance the powers of the GM so that they cannot abuse their power or be denied it.

Remember: NES and IOT are connected, one way or another. Hence I suggest NES and IOT work together for great justice. Together you can do more than being alone.

NES and IOT could protect themselves by expanding their borders across the cyber plains.

Given that stazNES XI is the only NES in which I had the remotest interest or expressed any effort I believe it is obvious that it is in fact I who am being excluded from participation by Birdjaguar.

As an IOTer, I would like to note that I have not heard of Arya having a bad reputation in IOTs at all. Other than him (it's a him) being a warmonger, but literally EVERYONE in IOT is a warmonger. Action Chats he has known to be disruptive, but that's a completely different issue.

Who cares? He's left ample evidence for why he isn't a good fit for stazNES XI and his attempts to "improve" his submission were arguably worse than the dross he first posted.

Personally, I would have just ignored his submission and/or had it fail miserably. But Azale is made of sterner stuff and quite rightly identified that letting the issue slide was locking up a state that someone else might want to have played.

In any case, thanks BJ for excluding all the players from stazNES XI in the name of including someone who couldn't even be bothered to put a minimum of effort in. We all appreciate it, and look forward to your increasingly dictatorial "inclusion" regime.

Hi.

I support BJ I think.

Also, well, my participation in stazNES XI is probably not good enough for the community standards. I haven't even payed much attention to the thread the last week or so. Should I quit?

Were you going to have Denmark become fascist and invade Sweden to save it from the threat of its racially inferior Finnish fifth column?

No but I was going to have Denmark become a racist dictatorship. Foreign things wouldn't really be done, but I'd instead wall myself off and kill Muslims inside Denmark.

Deja vu from my days as an "investigative journalist" in the IOT subforum, the General Strike, and the IOT Constitution.

I do not fully know the situation, so for now I shall not comment furthr until I did.

Edit : apologies as I am currently on my phone.

I must say that I su... Actually, I should say what I support specifically, shouldn't I?

Arya's application was indeed bad. Buzz words. Pie in the sky projections. Conflicting goals. And no respect to reality. Here's for me to say: so what? Arya indeed has an somewhat infamous reputation, especially among nes chatters, for actions in previous neses: so what? Both of these, I agree, do warrant in a rejected application. This I agree. What I disagree is the uncharacteristically harsh and blunt the actions of both Azale and BJ were and how they reflect on th supposed openness of our community as well as our once tranquil and respectful moderater culture.

Let us step back for a minute. Replace Arya with the classic Charles_Li. The comparison is not perfect, but this is only for the sake of comparison. Back then, yes it's true I had my, mildly, strong dislikers. I had a history. And my applications were rarely perfect. Yet instead of instant rejection, I was often tolerated and nurture. Remember MY insane actions as Italy in Carmen's NES? Compare me from the start to the end. Ugh, disgusting right? Yet noticeable, incremental improvement.

Arya, even if rejected, should have been given an overview of his mistakes and thus a chance to hit the books and prove that HE wants to play. If not, he can understand or decide that this nes is too far above him at this stage and sit out.

As for me, my noob self often sat out great games as a form of self-regulation.

When I return to my computer, I shall add more.

Reminds me so much of IOT. I express support for a merger.

As an after note, I do as well.