The Sid Virgins Try Sid Again (settings TBD)
- Thread starter Own
- Start date
Bigfoot
Emperor
Man, I really need to check the SG threads more often. I will give this a shot tonight and follow the 'archer rush' approach. Not my usual play style, but what the hey. Rome could be good, I will try them on a continents map with average settings.
Obormot said:
Great to see every one is getting new ideas!
I like your logical analysis here, but I still think an early defensive war is better. In a defensive war, we can kill >20 warriors, and what do we lose? 10 shields for walls (if mil), 0-2 spear(s), the chance to pop out the 1st settler quickly, maybe some tiles pillaged, that's it. When negotiating peace we can normally gain 1 city, if not 2, and maybe some tech. We almost lose nothing, so our development is quite sustainable. Furthurmore, the biggest advantage is the large chance (maybe 90%) to get a leader. With a leader sitting there, we can just settle 2 more cities (if we extort 1 city), then it's time for an archer army to beat the warriorless civ again.
Although getting cats is so slow that AIs will have more units, cats can increase our kill ratio from <50% (unacceptable!) to >90%. With an army things can be even better.
I guess that my main point is to be sustainable. In your save, you join the worker into Beijing to gain 10 spt and go archer rush. It cannot go far, because kill ratio <50%, and we have 1 archer every 2 turns, while the AIs get several spears per turn, not to mention their attakers. Even if we do conquer some lands, we have no settler to occupy them. It seems not sustainable to me.
So far, I support own's idea of using Mongol. Scouts for techs, then a defensive war. Exp is generally regarded as the worst trait, if we manage to make it shine at sid, that's rather interesting!
Pentium said:I hope I'm still allowed to join, even after 2 pages
I've been playing NMS (yes, that's what you think it is, and no, I'm not crazy yet) these days, and I've had great success with Sumeria.
On Standard Pangaea, with 4 highly agressive opponents, I was able to build GL everytime, even as late as 210BC. I only missed UN victory for 7 turns. Had I got a SGL for one of the 2 techs I discovered first (Lit and San), I'd win that one.
It might be a strategy worth considering.
No military sid? It's fun, but maybe relies on luck too much to be a good SG ...
And I personally love to have you join, to propose on self research, and I will have sth to object ...
Heroes, i think you should play the first 50 turns to see how it goes (either continue from your current start or roll a new one). Maybe your idea is good. I think we should just see what comes out, and then we decide which approach is better.
As for a no military game, i'll try one (maybe i'll try current hof gauntlet), but i think this is not appropriate for an SG, where the goal is to win even with bad luck.
As for a no military game, i'll try one (maybe i'll try current hof gauntlet), but i think this is not appropriate for an SG, where the goal is to win even with bad luck.
Great start Obormot! Let's continue with this one.It is not even close to what egyptians can do if they have horses and a cow I expected it to play much better, i particulary don't like our chances at getting a leader as we have only 1 elite archer IIRC and the losses are fairly high. But still if we manage to capture remaining korean cities we will have a much bigger territory then in the carthagian game, and this is with a mediocre start in a 70% world (compared to a 2 cow start in a 60% world). Also i think that i made a mistake by taking cities and not techs for peace. From now on we should go for techs in peace and leave cities for later.
Let us first wait for what Heroes comes up with, maybe his start would be even better. In any case, i think that we should fight with next AI after finishing the koreans off (that should not be too difficult) using cats and leader-fishing. I would start producing cats as soon as we manage to extort math.
I expected it to play much better, i particulary don't like our chances at getting a leader as we have only 1 elite archer IIRC and the losses are fairly high. But still if we manage to capture remaining korean cities we will have a much bigger territory then in the carthagian game, and this is with a mediocre start in a 70% world (compared to a 2 cow start in a 60% world). Also i think that i made a mistake by taking cities and not techs for peace. From now on we should go for techs in peace and leave cities for later.Let us first wait for what Heroes comes up with, maybe his start would be even better. In any case, i think that we should fight with next AI after finishing the koreans off (that should not be too difficult) using cats and leader-fishing. I would start producing cats as soon as we manage to extort math.
And one more thing i forgot: once we feel that we have enough archers to capture remaining korean cities we should start prepairing a palace jump to Seoul (i hope nobody considers it an exploit, otherwise the whole tactic of an archer rush is not valid). I would produce out of Beijing to improve land in Korea. Koreans did a lot of work already, but they irrigated all the BGs 
@Own: i think you can play now and then if Heroes comes up with a better start we can switch to his start. (If you don't mind playing turns that might not be used)
@Own: i think you can play now and then if Heroes comes up with a better start we can switch to his start. (If you don't mind playing turns that might not be used)
I don't think that an archer army is a great idea, it is too fragile. And i don't want a defensive army too. So i would make an empty army to fill it with swords later. We should be able to extort IW soon. Koreans appear to be gassed now, i feel we sould be able to finish them off without having an army.
That's it. Only go for capitals. Capture their capital, wait 10 turns, go for another one. If they build any culture in a city, capture it. If a city growth to size 3 (not 2 as they can pop-rush a spear during player's turn) you can also go for it.
I think we should ensure that we have enough archers before we can do the jump. When you have the feel that we have enough archers to capture the remaining cities, start building workers in Beijing. Propably that won't happen in the next 10 turns. We shoul make sure that we destroy Korea completely because i think we should merge the slaves in and our culture is lower then their's. They did build some temples i think as their new capital expanded much fatser then in 10 turns.
I think we should ensure that we have enough archers before we can do the jump. When you have the feel that we have enough archers to capture the remaining cities, start building workers in Beijing. Propably that won't happen in the next 10 turns. We shoul make sure that we destroy Korea completely because i think we should merge the slaves in and our culture is lower then their's. They did build some temples i think as their new capital expanded much fatser then in 10 turns.
But don't we have to wait for the peace deal to expire? Oh yeah, we don't, unless we trade gpt, which we won't 
. I'll play ASAP, which might be tonight or tomorrow.
Edit: Another question, should I declare war this turn? Are the workers deliberately trapping the spear stack?
. I'll play ASAP, which might be tonight or tomorrow.Edit: Another question, should I declare war this turn? Are the workers deliberately trapping the spear stack?
I think that breaking a peace treaty if we got something from the AI (even hard goods) causes a rep hit. And if it doesn't it is an exploit. We should try to make them declare on us, otherwise we should wait. I'm sure booting them will work now because they are still strong according to military advisor. Later it might not work and we should wait 20 turns instead of 10.
Yes, the spears are trapped to boot them. There is a stack of 5 archers near their capital and 2 more archers will arrive soon (btw, they may be on goto orders, be carefull). I think we should wait for those 2 archers so that we can attack with a stack of 7 archers. I hop it will be enough.
How about this start?
The original settler is on a flood plain, and sees a gold hill, so he climbs it. Max research bronze working. Just when our 1st warrior is trained and border expands, we see an Indian warrior. Send out the warrior to north, another warrior. When bronze is due in 3 turns, trade alphabet and a worker with India for masonry and warrior code, then declare. The brave warrior beats an India warrior settler pair and captures 2 workers, who go to north to explore. We meet America, and trade iron working + pottery for alphabet + 1 gpt. There is an iron right on a hill near Beijing!!!!
After killing a bunch of Indian warriors, settle Shanghai for spice. It takes quite a while for India to organize a 2nd wave of assault, and we meet Russia, Aztecs, and Persia. But the only deal done was alphabet = Aztecs' burial. At last we get a MGL, so sign peace with Gandhi. The only city he would like to give is Bangalore, ok ... We can just found another city then a sword army is in order! It's 1870 BC, turn 47 now. Math is due in 6 turns at -1gpt.
The original settler is on a flood plain, and sees a gold hill, so he climbs it. Max research bronze working. Just when our 1st warrior is trained and border expands, we see an Indian warrior. Send out the warrior to north, another warrior. When bronze is due in 3 turns, trade alphabet and a worker with India for masonry and warrior code, then declare. The brave warrior beats an India warrior settler pair and captures 2 workers, who go to north to explore. We meet America, and trade iron working + pottery for alphabet + 1 gpt. There is an iron right on a hill near Beijing!!!!
After killing a bunch of Indian warriors, settle Shanghai for spice. It takes quite a while for India to organize a 2nd wave of assault, and we meet Russia, Aztecs, and Persia. But the only deal done was alphabet = Aztecs' burial. At last we get a MGL, so sign peace with Gandhi. The only city he would like to give is Bangalore, ok ... We can just found another city then a sword army is in order! It's 1870 BC, turn 47 now. Math is due in 6 turns at -1gpt.
Bigfoot
Emperor
@ Own and Obermot, Nothing personal, but I don't like the idea of systematically breaking peace deals. My preference is to play L Kender rules, which would exclude the palace jump as well. I have managed wins playing honorably on Deity, so I don't see the point of changing my play style just to move up a level. But then nobody discussed the ground rules at the outset of this, really they should be established now.
FWIW, here is the start (Rome) that I played last night. The settings are continents - standard - average settings - random opponents.
We would have chokes on either side of an inland sea, with quite a bit of good land still to be claimed during the expansion phase. There is ivory too, but unfortunately Japan has already built SOZ. Another plus is that our immediate neighbors have a lot of jungle to contend with and are all tangled together, so AI wars look pretty likely. Sid is going to be tough no matter what, but I think we would have a fighting chance with this start.
Hmm, I cannot get the Upload function to work. The save and some images are attached.
FWIW, here is the start (Rome) that I played last night. The settings are continents - standard - average settings - random opponents.
We would have chokes on either side of an inland sea, with quite a bit of good land still to be claimed during the expansion phase. There is ivory too, but unfortunately Japan has already built SOZ. Another plus is that our immediate neighbors have a lot of jungle to contend with and are all tangled together, so AI wars look pretty likely. Sid is going to be tough no matter what, but I think we would have a fighting chance with this start.
Hmm, I cannot get the Upload function to work. The save and some images are attached.
