Phrederick
Warlord
This early, it doesn't really matter. Do whatever you think is best. I'd lean toward just going with the current game, unless Bad Things(tm) happened in the first round.
The Emperor Masters' Challenge 4 (Warlords v.208)
- Thread starter aelf
- Start date
This early, it doesn't really matter. Do whatever you think is best. I'd lean toward just going with the current game, unless Bad Things(tm) happened in the first round.
Gnarfflinger
Wiseguy in Training
So basically Archery can wait until it's a quick detour or you need Crossbows or Horse Archers. Gotcha.
I don't normally build City Walls or Castles anyway, and was just soliciting opinions.
With the forests around, Bronze working will be important anyway...
I play Marathon, so I'll probably have a hard time keeping up with the tech pace anyway...
I don't normally build City Walls or Castles anyway, and was just soliciting opinions.
With the forests around, Bronze working will be important anyway...
I play Marathon, so I'll probably have a hard time keeping up with the tech pace anyway...
I say continue. I usually play on Emperor with normal speed and I like the fact that warmongering is not as "efficient" as on epic.
As Aelf says, in this game the focus is on teching and preferably out-teching the AI. Excessive warmongering to meet this ends doesn`t seem right to me in this particular challenge. Continue!
As Aelf says, in this game the focus is on teching and preferably out-teching the AI. Excessive warmongering to meet this ends doesn`t seem right to me in this particular challenge. Continue!
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
I'm inclined to agree - I always play on normal.play on
normal speed rules
Another thought: since the new AI is actually much better at peaceful development than the old one, and since most AIs will spend most of the game peacefully developing, could Epic actually be more difficult (rather than less) under the new patch as it'll give them more turns to magnify that advantage? As I said, I always play normal so I haven't tested, but I'd be interested to hear what people who like a slower game think.
Julian Delphiki
Anton's key
A lurkers note to epic/prince/monarch testing after a patch (and continiously updating to Blakes last AI mod). It seems that its (still) easier to win peaceful game on faster speeds than trying to be builder on higher difficulties. I always get a war declared on me nowadays (more often than i used to) and i dont go to emperor.
aelf
Ashen One
Sure, it's easier to win peacefully on faster speeds if you can. But the key phrase is 'if you can'. It's certainly easier to win as a warmonger, and slower speeds help warmongers.
Alright, as recommended by the majority, I'll continue. To those who would've liked to see a game on Epic, my sincere apologies. It's my mistake after all. I hope you don't mind too much. However, you may yet get to see some action on Epic in this thread, if you get what I mean
I'll have to delay the update to tomorrow night, though. I have an early day tomorrow and have to catch some sleep.
Alright, as recommended by the majority, I'll continue. To those who would've liked to see a game on Epic, my sincere apologies. It's my mistake after all. I hope you don't mind too much. However, you may yet get to see some action on Epic in this thread, if you get what I mean
I'll have to delay the update to tomorrow night, though. I have an early day tomorrow and have to catch some sleep.
I felt compelled to register, just so that I could tell you, "I have more fun reading these threads, than actually playing the game!" 
Sulla, Sirian, and others have posted a few amazing didactics and yours are equally impressive! Great discussion on your last game, I learned a lot!
With regard to game-speed selection, forgive me for butting in........I just thought I would mention, that you could enter the world builder and save it as a mod, then when you reload it from the main menu "Play a Scenario", you could choose what speed you want which would solve the "game-pace" problem. Afterward, you could post a new "4000BC saved game file", that would have exactly the same map, because no regeneration was performed and you still haven't moved, yet. I am happy to read the discussion, either way, though. If you are worried about getting a sneak peak at the map, just cover the screen with something, while you save the mod. You may have already thought of this and I am just not aware of the reason for refraining. If so, I apologize for speaking up.
Cheers!
Hamarabi
Sulla, Sirian, and others have posted a few amazing didactics and yours are equally impressive! Great discussion on your last game, I learned a lot!
With regard to game-speed selection, forgive me for butting in........I just thought I would mention, that you could enter the world builder and save it as a mod, then when you reload it from the main menu "Play a Scenario", you could choose what speed you want which would solve the "game-pace" problem. Afterward, you could post a new "4000BC saved game file", that would have exactly the same map, because no regeneration was performed and you still haven't moved, yet. I am happy to read the discussion, either way, though. If you are worried about getting a sneak peak at the map, just cover the screen with something, while you save the mod. You may have already thought of this and I am just not aware of the reason for refraining. If so, I apologize for speaking up.
Cheers!
Hamarabi
I felt compelled to register, just so that I could tell you, "I have more fun reading these threads, than actually playing the game!"
Same reason I signed up!
You're too polite. Idiots like me usually stick our oar in whenever we've got something to say, and usually get swiftly corrected by those who know better.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
aelf, sleep is over rated. just post the update so the rest of us can sleep. run with normal.
DrJambo
Crash-test dummy
I think maybe for the next EMC you should stray from the typical two continent map set-up. Maybe try a Terra or a Fractal map for something a little different?
Anyway, it will be interesting to see if you can win without much warmongering. I've found even on Monarch that warmongering is almost a necessity. I'd love to be proved wrong though!
Anyway, it will be interesting to see if you can win without much warmongering. I've found even on Monarch that warmongering is almost a necessity. I'd love to be proved wrong though!
I think maybe for the next EMC you should stray from the typical two continent map set-up. Maybe try a Terra or a Fractal map for something a little different?
Anyway, it will be interesting to see if you can win without much warmongering. I've found even on Monarch that warmongering is almost a necessity. I'd love to be proved wrong though!
I've won a cultural victory on monarch postpatch with no real war (meaning i didn't fight a single battle although involved in some phoney wars to keep my buddy montezuma happy). But I was teching incredibly slowly compared to my neighbours.
I just registered as well, and partly so I could follow these threads more closely and frequently. Reading this is a great way to learn and improve once own game. Personally I tend to play mostly by feeling rather than planning ahead. Still, I've yet to lose a vanilla monarch game, thinking of going for emperor soon. Maybe I can even offer some advice here, though I doubt I can reason my decisions as well as most players here.
Keep the updates coming.
Keep the updates coming.
aelf
Ashen One
Hamarabi, welcome to CivFanatics! 
Thanks for your support, guys. By the time I realised the error, I was almost halfway through the first round (noticing that the build times were too short for Epic) so we can't use the world builder method to change the game speed.
Well, I thought a little more about this and suddenly remembered the remark one poster made in EMC1 that Emperor on Epic is as easy as Monarch on Normal. I guess it's also good that by playing on Normal we can avoid the charge that we're not really playing on the 'true' Emperor level in this game. I do not agree with such an opinion, but since the new AI has brought the question of difficulty levels to the fore, it would be good to play the game with settings that everyone agrees would create a fair reflection of an Emperor game. Of course, if we lose on Normal because we simply can't keep up, it would make sense to play again on Epic and see how we do on that speed.
Anyway, update coming up!
Thanks for your support, guys. By the time I realised the error, I was almost halfway through the first round (noticing that the build times were too short for Epic) so we can't use the world builder method to change the game speed.
Well, I thought a little more about this and suddenly remembered the remark one poster made in EMC1 that Emperor on Epic is as easy as Monarch on Normal. I guess it's also good that by playing on Normal we can avoid the charge that we're not really playing on the 'true' Emperor level in this game. I do not agree with such an opinion, but since the new AI has brought the question of difficulty levels to the fore, it would be good to play the game with settings that everyone agrees would create a fair reflection of an Emperor game. Of course, if we lose on Normal because we simply can't keep up, it would make sense to play again on Epic and see how we do on that speed.
Anyway, update coming up!
sveint
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 187
I know this opinion will be hugely out-voted but I'd go for archery early. Then use archers as fogbusters, explorers and city defenders. Protective archers make animals and barbarians a non-issue, letting you focus on building your economy and those cruicial first few cities.
If you do happen to build archers, and they gain experience, give them drill promotions, which helps both offense and defense.
If you do happen to build archers, and they gain experience, give them drill promotions, which helps both offense and defense.
aelf
Ashen One
Round 1: 4000BC - 2480BC
Following the advice of the majority, and trusting the map generator to give us a strategic resource in the capital's fat cross, we settled in place. And look what it revealed:
Cows and more fish. The former is a desirable resource giving both food and hammers, so that's good news. The latter, however, are beyond the fat cross. At least the one to the SE can be grabbed by another city. The one to the east is lost. What a lousy place to put a resource!
With the revelation of the cows, Animal Husbandry became a priority. We'd still research Fishing first, since an earlier workboat for the fish would give us the greatest benefit. However, we would subsequently delay Bronze Working and research Agriculture -> Animal Husbandry instead. I wanted it such that by the time our first worker was built, he'd be able to pasture the cows right away.
For now, since there'd be nothing for a worker to do for some time, I decided to build a warrior first while focusing Seoul on growth as much as possible:
The warrior could help to explore our surroundings and, later, escort our first settler. After him, we'd build a workboat to make use of the fish. Thanks to the food from the worked fish tile, we'd be able to build a worker quickly next.
Our explorer found something interesting:
A hut! How often do you get to see one in a game, huh? We headed in that direction right away to prevent a neighbour from getting there first and hoped for a windfall. It gave us 26 gold. Not too bad.
Not only was there the hut, there is also gold nearby. Looks like our second city can claim that resource and really power up our research.
A turn later, we met our first neighbour:
I haven't seen Peter much in my own games. I think he's a middle-of-the-pack AI with the potential to run away if he gets the chance to generate all those GPs of his. I don't know what he's be like on the new patch, though.
And it seemed Peter would beat our second explorer to a hut in the north:
I was already thinking "Damn those scouts!", but they very honourably moved away and our warrior got to the hut. And check out what that one gave us:
A free tech on Emperor! I could hardly believe our luck. First, there's gold near our capital, then Peter didn't get that hut, and then we got a free tech from it. Who says we need a better start?
Our first explorer popped another hut in the south, which gave us a map:
And then he got eaten by the lions. Oh, well. A warrior for a hut is a good exchange.
On the next turn, Seoul was about to complete our first worker, but before AH was discovered. I decided to delay the worker by one turn such that AH would be discovered on the turn he could get to the cows and start pasturing it:
And then came our second neighbour:
Oh, no. A formidable opponent on our continent. I think this game really won't be a walk in the park.
After the worker, it was time to build a settler, whose production would be further aided by the cow pasture:
Then we discovered AH, and it revealed...
horses in our capital's fat cross! Researching AH first really turned out to be a good decision. Well, Bronze Working would follow next anyway, so those of you who are BW fans don't need to worry.
By the way, as you can see, we have elephants to the south of our capital. Another reason to get Construction asap. A Hwacha-elephant army sounds really scary in the Classical era, doesn't it?
And soon our third and likely final neighbour appeared:
Already the founder of a religion, I see. Looks like, we'll get to see Saladin in his element in this game. By the way, this is the first EMC where we are on a continent with 4 civs. It had always been a 3-civ continent and we had to catch up with the other more advanced continent every time. Let's see if that changes in this game.
I stopped playing after we discovered Bronze Working. We need to decide what few techs to pursue next. I think The Wheel -> Pottery (for cottages) -> Writing (for the library and its scientists) is the best option. What do you think?
Also, our settler is almost complete in Seoul and we need to decide on where to settle him, as well as on where to settle our next few cities.
Here are maps of the known world. The northern part:
And the southern part:
We've been exploring pretty much along the coast. There are a few possible sites for cities that I can see, which I've highlighted in this dotmap:
Should we settle A or B first? Site A claims gold and lies along a river, but it's surrounded by plains and jungles. Site B claims rice, copper and cows, making the city a powerful early production centre, but is low on commerce. After Iron Working, we can settle site C to claim fish, dye and one of the elephants.
We're still in a very early stage of the game, but the decisions we make now might already have the power to determine how things would turn out. Speak your mind.
Following the advice of the majority, and trusting the map generator to give us a strategic resource in the capital's fat cross, we settled in place. And look what it revealed:
Cows and more fish. The former is a desirable resource giving both food and hammers, so that's good news. The latter, however, are beyond the fat cross. At least the one to the SE can be grabbed by another city. The one to the east is lost. What a lousy place to put a resource!
With the revelation of the cows, Animal Husbandry became a priority. We'd still research Fishing first, since an earlier workboat for the fish would give us the greatest benefit. However, we would subsequently delay Bronze Working and research Agriculture -> Animal Husbandry instead. I wanted it such that by the time our first worker was built, he'd be able to pasture the cows right away.
For now, since there'd be nothing for a worker to do for some time, I decided to build a warrior first while focusing Seoul on growth as much as possible:
The warrior could help to explore our surroundings and, later, escort our first settler. After him, we'd build a workboat to make use of the fish. Thanks to the food from the worked fish tile, we'd be able to build a worker quickly next.
Our explorer found something interesting:
A hut! How often do you get to see one in a game, huh? We headed in that direction right away to prevent a neighbour from getting there first and hoped for a windfall. It gave us 26 gold. Not too bad.
Not only was there the hut, there is also gold nearby. Looks like our second city can claim that resource and really power up our research.
A turn later, we met our first neighbour:
I haven't seen Peter much in my own games. I think he's a middle-of-the-pack AI with the potential to run away if he gets the chance to generate all those GPs of his. I don't know what he's be like on the new patch, though.
And it seemed Peter would beat our second explorer to a hut in the north:
I was already thinking "Damn those scouts!", but they very honourably moved away and our warrior got to the hut. And check out what that one gave us:
A free tech on Emperor! I could hardly believe our luck. First, there's gold near our capital, then Peter didn't get that hut, and then we got a free tech from it. Who says we need a better start?
Our first explorer popped another hut in the south, which gave us a map:
And then he got eaten by the lions. Oh, well. A warrior for a hut is a good exchange.
On the next turn, Seoul was about to complete our first worker, but before AH was discovered. I decided to delay the worker by one turn such that AH would be discovered on the turn he could get to the cows and start pasturing it:
And then came our second neighbour:
Oh, no. A formidable opponent on our continent. I think this game really won't be a walk in the park.
After the worker, it was time to build a settler, whose production would be further aided by the cow pasture:
Then we discovered AH, and it revealed...
horses in our capital's fat cross! Researching AH first really turned out to be a good decision. Well, Bronze Working would follow next anyway, so those of you who are BW fans don't need to worry.
By the way, as you can see, we have elephants to the south of our capital. Another reason to get Construction asap. A Hwacha-elephant army sounds really scary in the Classical era, doesn't it?
And soon our third and likely final neighbour appeared:
Already the founder of a religion, I see. Looks like, we'll get to see Saladin in his element in this game. By the way, this is the first EMC where we are on a continent with 4 civs. It had always been a 3-civ continent and we had to catch up with the other more advanced continent every time. Let's see if that changes in this game.
I stopped playing after we discovered Bronze Working. We need to decide what few techs to pursue next. I think The Wheel -> Pottery (for cottages) -> Writing (for the library and its scientists) is the best option. What do you think?
Also, our settler is almost complete in Seoul and we need to decide on where to settle him, as well as on where to settle our next few cities.
Here are maps of the known world. The northern part:
And the southern part:
We've been exploring pretty much along the coast. There are a few possible sites for cities that I can see, which I've highlighted in this dotmap:
Should we settle A or B first? Site A claims gold and lies along a river, but it's surrounded by plains and jungles. Site B claims rice, copper and cows, making the city a powerful early production centre, but is low on commerce. After Iron Working, we can settle site C to claim fish, dye and one of the elephants.
We're still in a very early stage of the game, but the decisions we make now might already have the power to determine how things would turn out. Speak your mind.
carl corey
Deity
Well, this actually turned out nicer than we've thought, didn't it? Good decision on AH, even if it meant only getting the cows pastured.
About settling: I think B is by far the better city here. While the gold will eventually help you tech faster that city has otherwise limited potential. B on the other hand will be an early killer. In fact, you can use it to spawn future settlers and city defenders from it, so I guess it's worth going there first.
Research path: well, you being financial and all pottery and writing are pretty much a must here. Although if you ever need to speed up research and don't have enough cottages up you can always work the lake and water tiles (especially after building a lighthouse).
I guess all I'm saying is "good choices everywhere". Waiting for the next episode.
About settling: I think B is by far the better city here. While the gold will eventually help you tech faster that city has otherwise limited potential. B on the other hand will be an early killer. In fact, you can use it to spawn future settlers and city defenders from it, so I guess it's worth going there first.
Research path: well, you being financial and all pottery and writing are pretty much a must here.
Although if you ever need to speed up research and don't have enough cottages up you can always work the lake and water tiles (especially after building a lighthouse).I guess all I'm saying is "good choices everywhere".
Waiting for the next episode.
Zophos
Greater Ape of Antics
You'll have to settle C one tile north (on top of the dye) if you want to claim the fish. It'll claim two of the elephants, and overlap the capital's cow, so you can switch that tile back and forth if needed. Should be a good all-round site.
If there were even one food resource at A, I'd go for that first, no question. But there's not. And there's only one (!) farmable grassland before IW arrives. So if you settle A, you're going to have at best a food surplus of 1 if you work the gold mine (at size 3).
So I think B is your best bet for the first Settler. You've claimed Copper for now and Incense for later. Plenty of food, so you can grow quickly and even pump out another Settler (for site A) in fairly short order, and you won't care so much if A (as a THIRD city, not second) doesn't grow very fast.
Just my $0.02.
If there were even one food resource at A, I'd go for that first, no question. But there's not. And there's only one (!) farmable grassland before IW arrives. So if you settle A, you're going to have at best a food surplus of 1 if you work the gold mine (at size 3).
So I think B is your best bet for the first Settler. You've claimed Copper for now and Incense for later. Plenty of food, so you can grow quickly and even pump out another Settler (for site A) in fairly short order, and you won't care so much if A (as a THIRD city, not second) doesn't grow very fast.
Just my $0.02.
ChicagoCubs
Prince
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2006
- Messages
- 361
Hi! New to the thread, but I loved the other ones.
Any idea where Nappy, Saladin and Peter are in relation to Seoul (even a general direction? I think both A and B are good locations, and it might be worth grabbing them just to block the AI. With that said...
At the moment, I would go for site B. With AH the cow at B would help, plus the rice as a health resourse is always nice.
Is the extra cow worth anything on the trade market?
I wouldn't disagree with site A either. Any chance at exploring to see what is west of site A? Moving A 1W might be better if something worthwhile is under the blacked out tiles.
Any idea where Nappy, Saladin and Peter are in relation to Seoul (even a general direction? I think both A and B are good locations, and it might be worth grabbing them just to block the AI. With that said...
At the moment, I would go for site B. With AH the cow at B would help, plus the rice as a health resourse is always nice.
Is the extra cow worth anything on the trade market?
I wouldn't disagree with site A either. Any chance at exploring to see what is west of site A? Moving A 1W might be better if something worthwhile is under the blacked out tiles.
