nonconformist
Miserable
Churchill: drunken, flipflopping pseudo liberal opium addled useless several tiems redundant racist and genocidal.
UK election: three televised debates confirmed
- Thread starter Munch
- Start date
Quackers
The Frog
Everybody I know in my life thinks very, very highly of Churchill. Bigot or not he gave us the confidance to win the war. Who cares if Churchill was a racist? Are you going to go back though British history and point out all my heroes and show me how evil and intolerant they are? Untill I hate my self and my country? That seems the goal - I think Churchill's defeat of the most evil racist regime in history absolves him of any wrong doing.
PrinceOfLeigh
Wigan, England
And he flicked the V's quite a bit too.
GinandTonic
Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime
- Joined
- May 25, 2005
- Messages
- 8,898
Carol looked like a third class student on Question Time. Eventually she was even called out on it in a questioners coda - something along the lines of "and could Ms Vordermann please pack away the Sarah Palin routine".
On the bright side, it's perhaps encouraging for our political landscape that someone with a third from Cambridge looks hopelessly lightweight and that her attempts at tabloid populism were cursed from the galleries.
What you are affectively saying is that Churchill's racism is irrelevant when considering what he did for wartime Britain, which is true. What I'm saying is that Churchill's wartime accomplishments are irrelevant when considering Churchill's political stances (as on Question Time) or his general attitude (as came up with the bullying thing in this thread), which is also true. WWCD? is not a solid philosophy when dealing with matters that aren't war with Germans.
Carol Vorderman was atrocious. Will Self was cool.
Serutan
Eatibus Anythingibus
When does the elecion have to be? June or so?
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
It will be in May on the same day as the local elections (May 3rd I think).
No-one has announced the date yet, but that is definitely when it is going to happen.
No-one has announced the date yet, but that is definitely when it is going to happen.
Mise
isle of lucy
Dear lord, just watched that Question Time... I can't believe that on a panel that included Boris Johnson, Carol Vorderman still managed to make herself look the most clueless...
Will Self was superb on the issue of Jon Venables. Top rate. Vorderman's sheer confusion over what she actually wanted, compounded with her inability to articulate why she wanted it, was truly Palinesque. She was just so awful. It was like getting barked at by a yorkshire terrier -- cute at first, but very tempted to kick it in the face.
Will Self was superb on the issue of Jon Venables. Top rate. Vorderman's sheer confusion over what she actually wanted, compounded with her inability to articulate why she wanted it, was truly Palinesque. She was just so awful. It was like getting barked at by a yorkshire terrier -- cute at first, but very tempted to kick it in the face.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
What has Carol done to her hair?
They'd damn well try though.
Mise
isle of lucy
Sorry for the bump, but this goes back to my point earlier about how the Lib Dems probably aren't saviours of the left wing...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/mar/11/nick-clegg-praises-margaret-thatcher
Tories plan 80% in spending cuts, 20% in tax rises.
Labour plan 67% in spending cuts, 33% in tax rises.
Lib Dems plan 100% in spending cuts, none in tax rises.
Which is the party of the left again?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/mar/11/nick-clegg-praises-margaret-thatcher
So, to end the structural deficit (careful now, not the whole deficit!) how will each party pay for it?
Tories plan 80% in spending cuts, 20% in tax rises.
Labour plan 67% in spending cuts, 33% in tax rises.
Lib Dems plan 100% in spending cuts, none in tax rises.
Which is the party of the left again?
Which is the party of the left again?
None of them ... it's an uncomfortable situation of having to vote for the 'least right'. The spending cuts versus tax rises figures do seem to put the Lib Dems to the economic right of both the main parties though, which is pretty unsightly. However they are the main voice of electoral reform, and so that alone wins them a degree of my support.
I'm afraid it doesn't work like that (not until we pass some kind of electoral reform).
Mise
isle of lucy
Personally I don't judge "left" and "right" by things like taxes and spending, but rather just answering the simple question: who are they working for?. It's clear to me that both the Lib Dems and Labour are trying to make life better for the bottom third of society, even though they have chosen to go about it in different ways. Personally, I think economic liberalism is perfectly compatible with progressive, left-leaning politics, that helps those most in need of help. I therefore see the resurgence of the economic liberal side of the Lib Dems as a good thing. It makes me more likely to think that a hung parliament will result in real progress, rather than deadlock. And it seems to vindicate New Labour and its own Third Way policies over the past 13 years.
And if the Lib Dems can steal votes from the Tories, then so much the better
And if the Lib Dems can steal votes from the Tories, then so much the better
Kraznaya
Princeps
What are the opinion polls saying right now?
Mise
isle of lucy
It changes day by day, but they show a Tory lead of around 5%-6%. The polls have an error margin of around +/-3%, so it's a bad idea to put too much stock in them right now. We're definitely looking at a hung parliament as the most likely scenario, with the Tory plurality forming a minority government. It's possible, if the Tories continue to screw things up, that Labour will emerge with the most seats in parliament, and form a government. (There is a sliver of hope, too, that Labour will win a majority, but the polls would have to narrow much nearer to parity for that to happen.)
General figures are something like 38% Con, 33% Lab, 17% Lib.
BBC Poll tracker: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8280050.stm <-- the YouGov ones are the ones most frequently updated.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/ <-- collection of polls day-by-day.
General figures are something like 38% Con, 33% Lab, 17% Lib.
BBC Poll tracker: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8280050.stm <-- the YouGov ones are the ones most frequently updated.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/ <-- collection of polls day-by-day.
Kraznaya
Princeps
Mm but if the Lib Dems win 17% of the vote, will they win 17% of the seats or something more like 10% because of getting screwed over by FPTP?
For a general answer to this question, you should look at UK Polling Report, linked by Mise. I check it more regularly than is healthy, but it is fascinating. They gather a large collection of polls as they come in (which is pretty much daily right now) and give a prediction based on the average, using "uniform swing" projection (check the site if you're interested in what this entails).
More like 9 or 10%, yeah. FPTP does that, and that's why a method like uniform swing projection is necessary to translate voting percentage into number of winnable seats. The UKPR site has a few interesting features which let you see how different voting percentages will affect the outcome, assuming uniform swing.
Personally I think FPTP is a joke; if n% of the votes go to a particular party, then they should have approximately n% representation in parliament. The two main parties are unlikely to back any kind of reform in this direction as the status quo is directly beneficial for them, but I have hope that the Lib Dems will emphasise the importance of reform, as they could end up as key players in the event of a hung parliament and electoral reform should be high on their agenda as it is a big factor in keeping down the number of seats they win.
I agree that they are both working to improve quality of life for the poorest, but taxes and spending are critical factors in this. Luckily, the statement of intent you posted up earlier, where the Lib Dems appear to be the most firmly committed to reducing spending and not raising taxes, doesn't give the whole picture. They have said before that they will raise the tax threshold to £10k, which I think is a great step, claiming to eliminate income tax for four million of the lowest earners. Also, their higher-threshold higher-rate mansion tax is very appealing. Vince Cable has said something along the lines of 'no sensible chancellor could possibly rule out tax rises', which is also a comforting sign. Overall I think that the latest Lib Dem news is designed solely to woo "soft Tories", and that they still desire a progressive system.
And if the Lib Dems can steal votes from the Tories, then so much the better
I wholeheartedly endorse this statement.
