Deity Challenge 1 - Russia, Pangaea

Victory - ugly but it still counts :)

Spoiler :
I had a crack at it and won a science victory on t275. Wasn't pretty but a win's a win :p. Screenshots will go up when I get home.

At the start of the game I thought settling south towards Japan and songhai was way to risky, just asking to get stomped, so I stayed behind that little mountain chain and squeezed in 3 cities. A bit of scouting with a trireme revealed some city state islands to the west that offered some more decent spots. I settled 3 more cities there.

I missed out on every important wonder, that's what slowed my game down, but got good RA action.

I spent a lot of gold keeping Nobu occupied and avoided war with him till the very end. If the game lasted literally 2 or 3 more turns I was toast, or sushi or whatever he wanted to turn me into.

I barely invested in military, just concentrated on the diplo situation. That was possible because of my passive early settling decisions. I was originally going to go domination cause that's how I like to play, but everyone had way too many nukes way too early for my liking.

Good challenge. :) Screenshots coming shortly.
 
Rats!
Spoiler :
Askia science victory in turn 322, at exactly the same time that I wrapped up my last research agreement and social policy to build the final pieces. I needed ten more turns to build them. This is the closest I've come to winning Deity yet. I took way too long to win, but the rest of the world was too busy fighting to compete with me. Might have pulled it off with a second city, hard to say for sure. Might try again to find out.
 
Hi Pilgrim good to see you too! I haven't been around the forums much lately but I've still been having a game here and there. Anyway, here are some screen shots...

Spoiler :


My first 3 cities pre NC. I didn't want to pick a fight over that terrain, it's much better suited to sitting behind and defending.

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Spoiler :


Here are my additional cities. That trireme sure proved valuable. Scout, scout always scout.

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Spoiler :


Just cruising along... don't laugh at my army, there are some other units...somewhere.

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Like all Deity games, this is going to be a tough one, I suspect.

Spoiler :
Turn 96, initially 4 city Tradition, but settled a 5th city to lock off the mountain pass, so I have two cities in front of the mountains (both on hills, of course) and 3 behind. Still don't have NC up (last 2 libraries done in a few turns--will build NC when I finish Oracle or, more likely, lose Oracle). A comp bow and trireme are exploring the CS islands to the West and busting barb camps. Currently allied with Singapore and Belgrade (which has been giving me Chariot Archers, but hopefully will soon switch to Comp Bows--thinking about researching Steel to get their Berzerkers, but that may not be the best plan :crazyeye:).

Took Stone Circles for faith generation, but was still the last to found a religion. Ethiopia (desert faith and early enhancement) has 10 cities (including my 2 most recently founded cities). Only Founder beliefs left were gold beliefs, so I took Initiation Rites on the theory that I can get gold from initial conversions, but won't have to worry about holding off the Ethiopian tsunami. We'll see.

Askia is spamming out cities and just took one of Ethiopia's poorly-placed cities. He's neutral but (sigh) covets my lands. He's going to be trouble.

Recently renewed a DOF with Japan; Ethiopia refused to renew, which is a bit inexplicable. Austria is also friendly, but declined my suggestion that she DOW Askia. Japan also refused.

Attached is a screen shot of my empire so far.
 

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Strategy topic concerning religion in a spot like this: it seems to me that on deity in this kind of starting position, with a non-religious civ you're better off abandoning the hope of founding your own religion and just get the core buildings up asap. If there aren't any great faith producing tiles around you like desert flood plains or a nice natural wonder then is it really worth going after on the off chance you might get the last religion and crappy beliefs?

In my game I ignored religion until Ethiopia's Christianity spread to me, it came with pagodas which was nice and it also buffs your friendship with the founder. I did build to temples eventually in order to pop a couple of GS at the end, but I was able to have the NC up by turn 80 because I wasn't messing about with shrines.

It just doesn't look like a map u want to aggressively pursue religion to me. The best belief you can expect is tithe, which the ai seems to avoid, but you know that Ethiopia is gonna take one of the first religions and have a big head start on you so it'll be an uphill battle for probably minimal returns. You have a decent chance of getting happiness follower beliefs if you just take what comes.
 
I played to turn 250 before retiring. Around 250 the AI was finishing Apollo Program, I had just finished research labs.

3 Things I learned:
1. I waited to long to attack(turn 170ish).
2. Didn't start research agreements early enough(140-150, could have started around 100)
3. Didn't explore the sea and find extra space to settle.
 
snarzberry said:
Strategy topic concerning religion in a spot like this: it seems to me that on deity in this kind of starting position, with a non-religious civ you're better off abandoning the hope of founding your own religion and just get the core buildings up asap. If there aren't any great faith producing tiles around you like desert flood plains or a nice natural wonder then is it really worth going after on the off chance you might get the last religion and crappy beliefs?
Click to expand...

Generally agree, which is why, other than building a fairly late shrine in my capital, I've invested nothing in religion yet. Picked Stone Circles pantheon for faith generation, since I'm going to work the quarries anyway. Ethiopia's religion will eventually overwhelm mine, but Initiation Rites (100 gold when city first converts) may generate some gold before Ethiopia dominates. Probably won't enhance, but spend early faith on missionaries to get some upfront gold from conversions, and then just accumulate faith for late game GPs. May or may not work, of course....
 
I am long time diety player, but I have to say this map is hard, very hard. Russia stinks in general, and a lot of circumstances makes it very tough to even survive.

I am turn 147 atm and Japan pressure me like a maniac. I dont know if I can survive. I mass forts at the front and I just managed to put out my first citadel. But I had to sacrifice a lot to make it possible.

My hope is still to be able to have a domination victory just like I did in the game of the week diety challange. That map was hard, but this is way harder! :crazyeye:

fun, fun, very fun!!! :crazyeye:
 
snarzberry said:
Lol no thanks - way too much work! Next map maybe ;)
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I wanted to win by Domination because Science is booooring :p. But yeah, I'm starting to think the same thing, it's not fun anymore. :(

Spoiler :
That terrain is RIDICULOUS to be fighting Deity spam on. He has TONS and TONS of Pikes and Mandecavs and Lancers back there. I didn't notice at first glance but Askia slapped a Citadel down near Tokyo next to a Jungle Hill and that is going to be hell to pillage because even mounted units can't go through that hill and get to the next tile and pillage it in the same turn.

The main problem is Japan being where he is. If this were my own territory I could manage this, Honestly I see three options at this point(for this situation):

1)Suck it up and try to deal with Taghaza. My concern is, other than that annoying terrain and its high strength, it's a terrible city. When I capture it, it's almost assuredly not going to pick up that Silk and it doesn't have access to those Gems, meaning I'm going to drop to -12 or so from taking a 6-7 pop city with no extra luxury. Razing it is undesirable because some AI would just slap a stupid crappy city in the same spot. I would to hope someone would want to buy the 8 horses(4 doubled) and use that money on one of the Mercantile CSes(iirc they're all hostile but I did get Patronage open) or Citadel bomb him and get the Silk that way(as well as slowing down his spam from down there).

2)Suicidally rush Tokyo with everything I have and hope I can take it.

3)Pull back, get my happiness/economy/science boosted, come back with Artillery and Cossacks.

Kinda leaning towards #1 right now, it looks like the least ugly terrain right now.
 
budweiser said:
Light Cleric
Spoiler :
Use a Scout to pillage the citadel.
Click to expand...

Spoiler :

Check where it is on the map(near Tokyo). The Scout would die a horrible horrible death before he got to it. He would have to survive being shot by Tokyo and the Trebuchets under that fog of war.
 
snarzberry said:
I haven't been around the forums much lately
Click to expand...
I've noticed, that's why I'm glad to see you're back! :)


Ok, finally had a chance to play properly. Looks like everybody is going for science. Which makes perfect sense on this map, however, the path of least resistance is not our path! :cool: :lol: My stubbornness will probably bite me in you know where soon, but so far so good. Sort of. :rolleyes: I really didn't want to turtle this time.

Turn 132.
Mood: still cautiously hopeful

Spoiler :

As I posted earlier, I expanded quickly to 4 cities focusing on getting NC asap (t83 eventually) while ignoring pretty much everything else, didn't have Archery until ~t50 (without a doubt my personal record on deity and likely on immortal too).
Ignored religion completely as well, which was a no brainer, all my cities were converted to Ethiopian Christianity by turn 65. :crazyeye: And all other cities in our half pangaea (ugly map, btw, agree with previous posters. very ugly shaped map). Forgot to check how many, I guess around 30 by now. :crazyeye:
Of course Haile Selassie had to stick Adwa in my face. Initially I thought it would be a nice puppet, but Askia decided he wanted it and deserved it more than I did. He DoWed Ethiopia at ~65 and couple of turns later got DoWed by Oda, who was bribed with his own money. :D So poor Adwa changed hands twice, Songhai took it, then Japan took it. I'm not happy with Japanese city on my doorstep, but currently we have a 4 civs alliance going (and he has the GW :rolleyes:). Me, Austria, Ethiopia and Japan all have DoF's with each other and all hate Songhai. Atilla is willing to join the party, but he's fighting with Suli and Maria Teresa, so he's out.
After completing libraries, granaries, circuses and such I built couple of warriors (well, I've got spoiled and knew we have iron, but didn't matter, I would have done the same anyways) and the Oracle (~107 I think :crazyeye:). Finished Tradition and took two policies in Honor.

Tech-wise Philosophy was followed by Construction, then Civil Service and Machinery beeline. I settled 5th city on copper and second sugar. Singapore is totally in my way, so maybe I'll take it out later. Can't build a road otherwise.

Askia finally DoWed at ~112 and went streigth for St. Peterburg - suidal move, I was ready for this, since he refused full price sales for quite awhile. Rushed walls just in case, but frankly was no need. My 5 or 6 CB's and swordsmen were more than enough. Unfortunately he brought more and more units and I couldn't counterattack for a long time. But crossbows solved the problem. Well, triple DoW by all my buddies might have helped too. :mischief: I captured Lalibela (another Ethiopian city which changed hands a lot) and at this moment waiting for Steel to push towards Jenne and Tombouctu. Stole Chivalry from Gao in the meantime. Lots of jungles and hills in his territory, so may be helpful. Planning to steal Education next. He's pretty crushed. Military advisor doesn't urge for peace anymore, just whines the war is not going well. So it's definitely going well. :D

Very weird game so far. Siam lost its capital to tech leader Atilla on t48, Suleiman lost some cities too and probably is gonna lose more. Maria Teresa is spamming cities of her own and Ethiopia down to 2 cities plays bunker behind impassable mountains. Also, although I took Tradition, play this very much like Liberty. Don't care about growth, most of the time on production focus. Landed Elite allows working all pastures without stagnation. Too bad we have Desert Folklore instead of culture from pastures. But monasteries are nice at least.

Not sure how this is going to progress. I've never got Education so late on deity. Will have to see. :)
 

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@Snarzberry

Nice job! After my crushing defeat I was wondering if it would be possible to turtle for a science VC instead. But I'm thinking that it might be possible to place a 4th city (actually it would be city #2) on the hill next to the mountain (between the 2 sheep) to the S of your capital. If placed early enough you could buy down to the wine and horses without angering anyone. Later it would become a good production and science (observatory) city, which may shave off some turns.

This was actually my 2nd city spot and I found it to be highly defensible, but I made several mistakes: (1) I settled city #4 (city #3 was your Novgorod spot) on the coast W of the gems/silver, which was a great spot but it forced me to split my defensive army between the 2 southern cities, (2) I didn't settle your other coastal city site (was going to be my city #5 after the NC), which would have made it much harder for Oda to flank me from that side and (3) I did not clear the forests from the hills behind my 2nd city, which would have allowed me to place more useful ranged defenders back there.

I may give it a try, although it would be a bit cheap since I now know the full map.
 
Old Peter said:
Awsome with a diety challange!!! Will give it a try tonight! Thanks guys!! :)
Click to expand...
Welcome aboard! :)

ense7en said:
Haven't read any of the spoilers, but holy crap, river mountain start that's not all tundra for Russia?

It's a miracle.

/sarcasm because i hate Russia's start bias.

I wonder how long i last before getting wiped out.
Last time in Deity was GOTM and got annihilated fast; let's see if i can survive a bit longer this time.
Click to expand...
I hate it too. You can often benefit from Goddess of the Hunt pantheon and peaceful city spamming with no one in proximity, but not on deity.
GotM51 start was way uglier, IMO. Low production capital for me is the worst possible scenario.

Fluxx said:
Edit: I am glad I clicked on details of the game, you put raging barbarians on?
Guess this will be an honour start.
Click to expand...
No, standard barbs. Standard everything.

budweiser said:
Since we are learning and it looks like a tough map, perhaps starting over when you die would be enlightening.
Click to expand...
Sure, why not. The only problem is, lucks plays a huge role, so each time you restart, things may look completely different.

Tabarnak said:
I worked very hard to get maximum of crossbowmen coupled with some swordmen(thanks!).
Click to expand...
Don't thank me, the map is random. :D

snarzberry said:
I barely invested in military, just concentrated on the diplo situation.
Click to expand...
I think that's the key in this game. Really. Nice to see that diplomacy finally matters. Well, sometimes. A little. :rolleyes:

BWS said:
Spoiler :
Askia science victory in turn 322, at exactly the same time that I wrapped up my last research agreement and social policy to build the final pieces. I needed ten more turns to build them. This is the closest I've come to winning Deity yet. I took way too long to win, but the rest of the world was too busy fighting to compete with me. Might have pulled it off with a second city, hard to say for sure. Might try again to find out.
Click to expand...
Wow, that's late! AI is not teching so well while at war. In my game it's also not teching too fast. Good, good, good.

snarzberry said:
Strategy topic concerning religion in a spot like this: it seems to me that on deity in this kind of starting position, with a non-religious civ you're better off abandoning the hope of founding your own religion and just get the core buildings up asap. If there aren't any great faith producing tiles around you like desert flood plains or a nice natural wonder then is it really worth going after on the off chance you might get the last religion and crappy beliefs?
Click to expand...
Yep. That's my conclusion as well. I tend to ignore religion altogether in such circumstances. Definitely won't try to found one. If I'm lucky to hit a faith ruin or CS, I take pantheon that can help in a short term. With Ethiopia nearby even if you manage to found a religion, you won't be able to spread it no matter what (even killing them won't do anything, the pressure from all other cities will be too high at this point).

Old Peter said:
Russia stinks in general
Click to expand...
Do you mind to expand on this? :)

RedRover57 said:
I may give it a try, although it would be a bit cheap since I now know the full map.
Click to expand...
We won't tell anyone. :)
 
Spoiler :
BTW what's up with these figure 8 pangaeas!!? I have seen a number of these lately and they always seem to have a civ blocking the choke point. Makes it play more like a continents map as you usually can't meet the other civs until late.
 
The Pilgrim said:
Looks like everybody is going for science.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna try a diplo win :)

Reasons behind it :

Spoiler :
-I'm not too tall, generating quite a good amount of gold thanks to my aggressive play through the main land
-Checked Snarz's spoiler(so i know that some cs are well protected west of me) :mischief:
-No civs have flew away so far, powers are well balanced at the moment. Suleiman is resisting to Attila pretty well making cs a chance to survive
-This is not a game were Darius can throw a spaceship as soon as turn 240 and a Ghengis taking every cs on the map(i'm looking at you GOTM #51, this game is easier imo)


Well i'm pretty far away from this so i can change my mind since that i need Plastics before moving on. But i think that a Diplo win is pretty possible right now.

Congrats to the winners! :goodjob:
 
Spoiler :
I decided that it's less painful to die sooner rather than later. I did set up two more cities: one on top of the hill next to horses and 3x wine, the other - on top of diamonds, and teched archery. By turn 60 i had 7 archers. Upgraded them to CB and went after Oda. Luckily, Askia had same feelings and he was fighting Japan since turn 30. So i joined in and we took Oda out with ease. Left him Satsuma. For now.

The result of my DoW'ing Oda was that Maria and Haile DoW'ed me. Haile is easy to hold of, due to a mountain range and MAria is no threat at all.

Without a second thought i backstabbed Askia, while his troops were in unfavorable position. With some creative running around, pillaging and swearing (i did lose two CBs) i did manage to take Gao and Tombouctu.

Right now it's turn 102. Got NC (t.95), 8 cities total, about to finish my road netwerk in 3 turns for an estimated gpt of +50. Askia provided me with 2k gold for peace. Got 3 wonders in my pocession: Temple of Artemis, Zeus Statue and Chichen Itza.

So i am thinking hard on what to do next :D. Will probably upgrade 10CBs i have left to Xmen in 7 turns, then 10 turns to education, then astronomy, and so on..

I'll surely try to dominate this one if everything goes smooth.

Oh, yeah, happiness kills me. :crazyeye:
 

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