G-Minor XCII

Tried a full Piety game. Very fun, and it almost worked. Conquered 6 capitals by t130 and had an army at Marrakech, but he wouldn't go for the worker baits and built a castle instead for a 37 defense city. And kept one-turning units. Not gonna happen with CBs... :mad:

Heathen conversion is great but I wish barbs produced more ranged units and less horsemen and brutes... Maybe if I was quicker or explored better it would've worked. Not sure I have the willpower for another attempt though - it's kinda tedious.
 
Nevermind that, tried one more time and won on t120 with full Piety. Cromagnus was absolutely right, movement is everything, and missionaries have 4 movement. ;) And captured missionaries work too...

Spoiler :
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I guess I'll do a short writeup of my game.

Settings: Promotion saving on, Raging barbarians on, 5 billion, Arid

Capital BO: monument > scout > shrine > scout > granary&settler, don't remember in what order; settler for the extra 3 faith, 1 from terrain and 2 from shrine > archers > CBs > chariots. A couple of CBs before chariots because chariots can catch up easily later, plus they cost less hammers and production penalty really starts kicking in at that point... Secondary city BO: shrine > scout > CB > chariots

Policies: Piety opener, +1 faith from shrines, Honor opener, Reformation, finish Piety. Honor opener for camp notifications mostly, the culture didn't matter much because I didn't kill that many barbs. It delays the cheaper missionary cost a tiny bit but is totally worth it imo. Knowing where exactly the camps spawn is huge.

Religion: Earth Mother pantheon -> 100g when city gets the religion, Heathen Conversion reformation belief. Other beliefs were useless, but I took Holy Warriors, +15% production and +30% range enhancer.

Tech: Pottery first, then Mining, Archery, AH -> Construction -> Writing for embassies, Bronze Working for iron -> Calendar for happiness from puppets. Beelined Guilds after that to enter Medieval but it didn't really matter.

Military: first army was 6 CBs and a warrior, second army was 3 or 4 CBs and 4 chariots that caught up to them. The first missionary converted the camps near the capital first, those barbs mostly joined the first army, then I sent him to catch up with the 2nd army and get some more units for it too. In the end I split the second army into two for a faster finish.
 
Nevermind that, tried one more time and won on t120 with full Piety. Cromagnus was absolutely right, movement is everything, and missionaries have 4 movement. ;)

Bloody hell Vadalaz. What a phenomenal game! And I was so proud of my 152 that I literally finished a minute ago, you guys were going to get a wall of text from me.:)

I gotta try this.

And I think in your post you mean Promo saving and not policy saving.
 
Yes, promo saving of course. Thanks, edited.
T152 is a very good result and something to be proud of indeed, congrats! Would love to read your wall of text, your writeups are always fun and very detailed. :)

Piety just gives you so many units to work with though, it has to be the fastest way on this map. The map is rather spacey which slows down conquest but gives more room for barb camps to spawn - so going Piety kinda turns it into an advantage. Would probably be pointless on a Pangaea though.
 
Yes, promo saving of course. Thanks, edited.
T152 is a very good result and something to be proud of indeed, congrats! Would love to read your wall of text, your writeups are always fun and very detailed. :)

Piety just gives you so many units to work with though, it has to be the fastest way on this map. The map is rather spacey which slows down conquest but gives more room for barb camps to spawn - so going Piety kinda turns it into an advantage. Would probably be pointless on a Pangaea though.

Yep, that's the winning combo. Piety + raging barbs, with Poland and the change to piety it's almost broken. I was hoping someone would do it, since I'm trapped in this time game.

Grats on great finishes, guys!
 
Finished my time game but now I have eyestrain and a sore wrist... Probably going to skip this one. :-(

Anyway keep up the posts, the reports from your games keep me from getting bored at work. ;)
 
Here is the wall of text. Quickly as I am itching to try the winning Piety strategy from Cro and Vadalaz.

Salt start with decent production. The one thing I like about Boreal, you get a salt start every 8 rolls.

Strategy based on super worker Liberty/Pyramids, pillage repair and Honor left side then Commerce, and hitting Machinery between 100-105.

BO: Cap builds scout-scout-monument-granary-library-archers-Pyramids-more archers. Very important to build the archers first otherwise, once you build the Pyramids, you badly hit the unit cap with the 2 free workers and it sucks. Also that way the archers can train with a CS, and do barb quests. I try VERY hard to ally at least 2 CSs with barb quests before I start conquest, so happiness is not terrible. This sometimes delays conquest by 3-4 turns (no more than that) but pays off later. Expo builds monument-granary (if wheat/deer)-library - units. In my game I was teching very slowly as I had no science caravan routes available and had to build NC, which made me lose Oracle, not a tragedy but annoying, but even with NC I only hit Machinery at 109. More about that later.

And another thing to keep in mind, and this is counterintuitive, don't steal many workers in the first 40 turns. One is enough, but that one needs to be stolen as early as possible as improving the salts for production/food and trade is really important. If you steal more, then again you have the unit cap problem. If I can steal more, especially if it is a settler, then I do it, as that messes up the AIs growth, but I disband them as soon as I steal them. If it is after t50 or so I will keep one to help the conquest when my army gets there.

Policies: I have experimented a lot with the policy order within Liberty and Honor. I find after much testing of first 50 turns that probably the best order is Honor opener mostly for culture (if you kill one barbarian you break even, if you kill 2 you are ahead), then Liberty opener, then to free settler. Founding that second city early is essential, as it helps with the unit cap and will help your science rate as soon as it grows to 3 and you build a library. After the free settler you are either at Construction or very close to it, and ready to upgrade you CBs and start the war. If you have timed this right, then you will get 2 policies almost at the same time, the free Policy from era change and the normal one, I use both to get the free Great General (yes, Zenmaster and Vadalaz are both right, timing is everything and a GG at this time is just great) and then the quick promotion. I made this happen in my game, prioritizing barbarian kills for culture.

After that it is off to war, and I complete Liberty. It is important to finish the tree around t85-90 as you will one to use the free Great Person as a GS and bulb it to get to machinery asap. I was late with this, as I lost Oracle. Once I finished liberty I opened Commerce (gold), and then Landsknechts. I use the landsknechts as a safety net in case I make a mistake and lose units in the last capitals conquest. They are great meat shields, and they are pikemen, so very powerful at this stage. They also help with the barb horsemen. and they cost only 220 (just slightly more than a warrior!). I am usually rolling in money by this time. And at this stage of the game the rest of the honor policies are not that useful.

To have money to upgrade you archers to CBs you save money from the beginning and don't rush buy anything. Of course if there are trades available it helps.

Finally, if you are lucky and you have an AI close enough or somebody expoes in your face, a caravan will help hugely with science, and you need every help you can as hitting Machinery at t100 is pretty hard otherwise. I would fit that caravan in between the archers and the Pyramids. In my game this did not happen. If you do the caravan make sure it is not with a civ you will conquer early.

The rest is just war. I did not make any tactical mistakes that cost me turns (a few that didn't), so I cannot really see how you could do this map more than 1-2 turns earlier. I was unlucky in that Attila spawned next to me and I had to take him out first, so no warmonger to help with diplomacy.

BUT I did make a pretty big strategic mistake, or I should say I was not able to execute flawlessly the last part of the strategy. I wanted Machinery around t100, as that is usually the time when the first 2-3 caps have fallen, and then you can upgrade to XBows both armies. But I was late with Machinery.

This was pretty terrible as the plan was that my second army (West) was going to take Maria on the top right corner, then go south and take Marrakesh, while the East army was going to take all caps on the south and then take out Venice in the top right corner, far East north, leaving India, relatively close to my cap to the East, to be the last civ to be taken by a late third army. This was the plan and would have saved me 10 turns. But as I was going to hit Machinery late, could not upgrade, and I could see that Arabia (the runaway, bottom right, next up according to my plan) had a 27 defense capital. If I went for the original plan, my CBs would struggle with it, and waste turns, while Delhi was pretty close and 20 defense and rather than leaving my units idle, I took it while waiting for machinery. This meant that I had to go aaall the way east to get the last 2 caps on that side, and my cap could not send units on time, so third army never happened. And I lost 10 turns.

Anyway it was a fun game, although these domination games take a lot of time even if they are short, as you cannot really afford to make any tactical mistakes. I you lose a unit early on that can cost you the good finish time.

That was way too long. Excuse the horrible grammar, English is not my native language. Hope it was useful or fun. On to Piety!:)
 
Bloody hell Vadalaz. What a phenomenal game! And I was so proud of my 152 that I literally finished a minute ago, you guys were going to get a wall of text from me.:)

I gotta try this.

And I think in your post you mean Promo saving and not policy saving.
I will concur. That is awesome, Vadalaz!
Thanks for the writeup. Congrats on a great time with a fun strategy.

I have tried Honor only once but wasn't going to try Piety only until later in the week. I guess I will have to move that timetable up! My best effort with Liberty/Honor was T154 with Kilimanjaro but an otherwise not so good map.

Thanks so much for your writeup Bleidraner. That was a great game. I enjoyed the writeup a lot. I know the feeling of leaving armies standing idle; I hate to do it too!
 
Excellent writeup, Bleidraner. A shame it didn't go as planned with Oracle and in the endgame, but you seem to have adapted to it very well. Great culture and policy management, too.

Good luck and have fun with Piety, guys! :)
 
Does anybody know what happens if you get to Reformation BEFORE getting a religion? Do you still get the Reformation belief once you get the religion?
 
IIRC you get to choose your reformation belief the turn after you found your religion in that case.
 
Wow. This is so broken. I am playing mindlessly, my missionaries are pretty much spawning armies from nothing wherever I pass. I am at t113, and I have 58!!! units.

I will retire this game though, it was just training. Really weird map, divided in 2 subcontinents in the middle by an inland sea and mountain ranges that span all the way to the top and the bottom, to the last tile, there is a pass in the middle but it is just 1 tile wide, so basically different worlds. Attila spawned in this second continent and he has ICSed so bad there are hardly any space or barbarians left and my armies will take a long time. I will win, and probably with a better than 152 turn time, but really weird.

What is a riot is that I have taken 2 caps and I have 2 other caps completely surrounded by troops and I still have 3! DoFs in the remaining 5 civs due to timing of meeting AIs and the fact that I liberate workers and manipulate my friends to hate whoever I DoW. Really weird. I mean, 2 of my friends are so surrounded by my units that they cannot get out. If I was them i would smell a rat.:D

Anyway, this is the way to go clearly.

EDIT: Aaaand just crashed in t113!. Just as I finished writing the above. Apologies, Civ V Gods, it is not broken, it is "as designed". Don't punish me more. :(... What is going on. I have had 4 crashes in a week, and I think in the previous 12 months I had a grand total of 3-4!
 
Wow. This is so broken. I am playing mindlessly, my missionaries are pretty much spawning armies from nothing wherever I pass. I am at t113, and I have 58!!! units.

I will retire this game though, it was just training. Really weird map, divided in 2 subcontinents in the middle by an inland sea and mountain ranges that span all the way to the top and the bottom, to the last tile, there is a pass in the middle but it is just 1 tile wide, so basically different worlds. Attila spawned in this second continent and he has ICSed so bad there are hardly any space or barbarians left and my armies will take a long time. I will win, and probably with a better than 152 turn time, but really weird.

What is a riot is that I have taken 2 caps and I have 2 other caps completely surrounded by troops and I still have 3! DoFs in the remaining 5 civs due to timing of meeting AIs and the fact that I liberate workers and manipulate my friends to hate whoever I DoW. Really weird. I mean, 2 of my friends are so surrounded by my units that they cannot get out. If I was them i would smell a rat.:D

Anyway, this is the way to go clearly.

EDIT: Aaaand just crashed in t113!. Just as I finished writing the above. Apologies, Civ V Gods, it is not broken, it is "as designed". Don't punish me more. :(... What is going on. I have had 4 crashes in a week, and I think in the previous 12 months I had a grand total of 3-4!

Are you playing full screen and tabbing out during AI turns? I've determined that this is one of the reasons I started crashing more. Also beware iTunes popups. (Like, plugging in an iPhone to charge it while Civ5 has focus... this has crashed me)
 
Are you playing full screen and tabbing out during AI turns? I've determined that this is one of the reasons I started crashing more. Also beware iTunes popups. (Like, plugging in an iPhone to charge it while Civ5 has focus... this has crashed me)

That's exactly what I have been doing. And only lately, so that makes total sense. Thank you Cromagnus.
 
I will retire this game though, it was just training.

So Funny!! You guys are having so much fun with this,...I have talked about playing "Raging Barbarians" in the past....And this is why I do it! - Heathen Conversion- It is much easier with Poland because of the free social policies, but if you get the right setup it works for everyone.

You guys are so much better than me at warmongering, which is why I never put up a medal performance to share....but I know this Strategy, and Map very well,...Maybe it is obvious common knowledge, but here are a few tips on what I have learned.

If you do not play Heathen Conversion often you may not realize it..But, you can convert settlers. Block the settler so that his next move after your camp rush is in the direction of your missionary...Normally, if the settler is not converted on the turn following the rush,...you have lost your chance. So nice to have free settlers, especially since Liberty won't even be touched, and you would be paying full price.

Put a :c5faith:monger like Ethiopia in your game, and find him right away! He is normally the first one to get a religion. Keep him under your control, and steal his missionaries. Remember,...To convert it doesn't need to be your religion! Just a missionary under your control after founding Religion and Piety Reformation. Use your missionaries to build up your Founder belief, and use the AIs for converting. Make a point of checking missionaries loyalty before you spread religion,...I have spread the AI's religion in the past...:(

Egypt's Chariot Archers can be a pain, but if you keep an eye on him...He normally sends a unused prophet out unprotected pretty early,...Stealing a prophet in this game is HUGE because your highly dependent on Faith and you can use that prophet for your enhancer, You will most likely close out Piety, so Holy Sites will pay higher dividends.
If he is one of the first on your list to take down it probably won't matter, but I have had some great experiences.

Find Kailish as soon as you can, and settle your second,...maybe third city there and use it only for the :c5faith:,..since it is often in a unproductive location. Keep it at a pop. of one, then give it away if you have happiness issues.

A lot of Masonry/Stone on your start...Make sure your not on plains, use your early gold for "Stone Works" then grab "Monument of the Gods"as your Pantheon.(+15% Production for Ancient/Classical Wonders) This was my best start on this Gauntlet,...
Its possible to make a run on Wonders, GL, Stonehedge, Parthenon,...etc. You can Grab the Honor opener, Complete Tradition, then make it all way to Reformation in Piety if you do it correctly!

I usually
Delete Warriors and archers immediately. **
Suicide Horsemen.
Keep experienced AxMen, delete unexperienced injured.
Keep CB, and Pikemen

**Use Mongolia as a enemy AI, if there is a Barb Camp near a city state...bribe him to attack that CS....It won't take a lot, that is what he likes to do ;) . Gift all of your low level, and injured units once he declares war, and charge that CS up to Electric blue in just a few turns...

Heathen Conversion is a tedious strategy, but it is fun, and can pay big dividends!

Normally my biggest obstacle is -Gold....Ouch!
 
Thanks Chuck! Some really good stuff there, especailly around religion focused AIs and stealing missionaries/GPs. And I really like the Mongolia idea, it's evil:D

Unfortunately in immortal most of the Wonders you mentioned are not really possible, as most if not all are gone by t36-t40. As for policies, it is a race to Reformation with honor opener, and yes I wish I would find Mt Kailash but I have not had it yet. If I get it, I will win the gauntlet, as the critical path factor seems to be how early you can get a religion, in my practice game I hit reformation before getting the religion.

Thanks for the tips, very much appreciated!
 
Unfortunately in immortal most of the Wonders you mentioned are not really possible, as most if not all are gone by t36-t40.

Just did it this morning...It was insane! Did I have a little help?...Sure!

Pottery Tech Ruin early
Faith Ruin turn 22
Had 1 Masonry Hill, and one on Plains with 1 other Stone.
4 Salt (14 gold incoming from 2 Civs)
1 Horse Stable

I was so excited at the early chance a the GL that I didn't wait for Calender, so I could get Philosophy. I just grabbed Drama and Poetry as my free Tech., completed 4-5 turns on Parthenon, then once I got Calendar I went full bore for Stonehedge, and back to Parthenon. (So, I guess I got the GL before I got StoneWorks)

Yes, very rare...BUT,...My main point was

If you see a setup like that...
Masonry with enough in the bank to buy Stone Works,
and in the next few turns you can decide on a Pantheon and next Social Policy. Take a chance!

Go Tradition for Aristocrasy, and Monument of the Gods Pantheon
Because if you can get the GL, Stonehedge, and Parthenon....It all over for the AI!

I had a Barracks, and was making CB every 3 turns early....What happened!!??, I underestimated my opponent and got Greedy. Pedro was my friend, and only neighbor...Normally not a HUGE warmonger right..??

So, I figured I would march my current army far away,...then when I got Heathen Conversion I would combine the local Barbs with my Holy Warrior Belief, since there was no doubt I would beat everyone to the Faith Wonders in Theology, and could just buy Crossbows with Faith to finish off Pedro.

Yeah,...That didn't happen! Pedro consumed my capital, and I didn't have enough gold to bail myself out....If I could go back, I should have sold my buildings...:sad: I would have survived, and I could have recovered enough for a strong finish! I didn't think of that because I am not normally in that comfortable of a position, and selling productive buildings would normally be a death sentence when challenging for a Gauntlet.

I have 3 days to see if I can rekindle some of that magic...Well see! If you, or Vadalaz would have had that setup it would have been a medal for sure!
 
So Funny!! You guys are having so much fun with this,...I have talked about playing "Raging Barbarians" in the past....And this is why I do it! - Heathen Conversion- It is much easier with Poland because of the free social policies, but if you get the right setup it works for everyone.

You guys are so much better than me at warmongering, which is why I never put up a medal performance to share....but I know this Strategy, and Map very well,...Maybe it is obvious common knowledge, but here are a few tips on what I have learned.

A hearty thank you for the tips; I've never played Heathen Conversion before, so your experience is very helpful!
 
Great tips Chuck, I really like the Mongolia one in particular. You get a CS ally for free pretty much... Cool trick. :)
 
Just did it this morning...It was insane!

Truly insane! Don't care whatever help you had, getting both GL and Stonehenge at immortal is AMAZING! If I could have a guaranteed SH, just that, I would be over the moon!

Why did you go for Parthenon? How does that help? I would have said that building units or a settler to expo at that point would have been better?

I am still trying out different things with the heathen conversion. So far I have been trying to be semipeaceful until then to have trade partners and DoFs, but it seems to delay conquest too much, t68 is the earliest I have so far in terms of getting reformation AND a religion, and it just feels late to kick off war then. I have only played a couple of games, fist one to t113 and crashed and retired and second one just first 80 turns, but running out of time so I need to decide on a strategy and just go for it.

I am going to try now a more classic early rush, kicking war off on t55-60 with CBs, and see what happens. I think first army is the same as usual, where HC can help is with 2nd and 3rd army, build a core of CBs (I will try 3 each) and send them off with a missionary to complement them with melee meat shields and maybe an archer or 2. I wonder where I will get the money from though.
 
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