SGOTM 22 - TTfkapr

Iam reading from time to time but problem is that we are not playing so ...

OK... I am finalizing the micro. Mids can't be gotten before 825 BC. Even when starving after Pop6, there are still not enough hammers. I am still trying to maximize efficiency, then I hope to play a few turns.

The delay means that we can build another warrior in Trojan that will finish on 825 BC, the turn we give it away. So no Moai in Trojan.

I was initially going to send George to Antium for a garrison. He is not going to Rome to make the 6th warrior for founding Trojan. We actually get more hammers for Mids by building a warrior on T62. If we build Mids T62, it gets no stone bonus. Additionally, overflow hammers from a warrior built on T62 do get the stone bonus on T63 when we have stone.

Instead, I am going to use him to fogbust the land between Rome and Trojan. Once we gift trojan, the AI will not have a garrison unit. The gift is useless if an archer takes the undefended city from the AI we gift it to. It is easier to fogbust it now, than to wait for warriors to come out of Trojan after the workboat. George will still be able to get to Rome for a Garrison requirement for Horse City founding in 825 BC.

Here are my first few turns of micro, reworked:

T60
0% Sailing
Warrior 2 1N1W
Worker 1 Road

T61
George 1S1E for fogbusting
Warrior 2 2N2W
Warrior (Stone) 1S1E
Worker 1 Road
0% Sailing

T62
George 1E, Fortify for fogbusting
Worker 1 – 2N2W road
Warrior (Stone)– 1N1E, fortify
Warrior 2 – 1N to Rome
100% Sailing
Start new warrior in Rome

T63 (1480 BC)
George 2N1E into Rome
Worker 1 – road
Warrior (Stone)– 1N
Rome Pop6
Found Trojan
Trojan starts workboat, work forested tundra
Warrior 2 – After Trojan founded, fogbust Horse site.
Agriculture 0%
Rome works mines, pig
Antium works fish, cottage
New Rome warrior head to Antium for Garrison.
Rome warrior 2S1W

Good to see you back on the micro.

One thought I have had. We don't want to shrink Rome too much. Logic being that we may want to go S8 and 4 buildings and 8 warriors before BW. Need to keep our options open. We also need to think about how to quickly replace the warriors. I would rather keep that option open if possible. Slavery would of been nice.

Gumbolt said:

Good to see you back on the micro.

One thought I have had. We don't want to shrink Rome too much. Logic being that we may want to go S8 and 4 buildings and 8 warriors before BW. Need to keep our options open. We also need to think about how to quickly replace the warriors. I would rather keep that option open if possible. Slavery would of been nice.

Click to expand...

You are right, shrinking Rome does not help at all. I will not do it. It only helped if we never got to pop6.

We have three warriors coming out of Trojan, some will be able to go to Rome when fogbusting is no longer needed.

Remember when the AI get past 3 cities the barbs should start to spawn less. We can also use a warrior from Rome for a short period to fogbust once the Stone is settled. Would be good to get a WM2 warrior.

Third city settled. Nothing unexpected. Test game below.

Gotta run. This what I have for the rest of the way for micro until Pyramids.

T63 (1480 BC)
George 2N1E into Rome
Worker 1 – road
Warrior (Stone)– 1N
Rome Pop6
Found Trojan
Trojan starts workboat, work forested tundra
Warrior 2 – After Trojan founded, fogbust Horse site.
Agriculture 0%
Rome works mines, pig
Antium works fish, cottage
New Rome warrior head to Antium for Garrison.

T64
Worker 1 – 1E, cottage

T65
Antium works fish, cottage, forested mine

T66
Antium works fish, 2 cottages

T67
Worker to 1S1E of rome
100% agriculture

T68 1280 BC
Worker road

T69
Worker 1N1E, road

T70 1200 BC
Cumae – Start Settler; Work fish, cottage, 2 forested grass hills
Worker 1N1E, road
Mathematics 100%

T71
George 1N1W
Fogbust warrior on ice 1E
Trojan build warrior.
Settler in Cumae

T72
Worker cottage one turn, cancel
George 1W, fortify

T73
Worker 2S, then road toward Horses

T74
Trojan build warrior or WB

T75

T76

T78

T79
Antium warrior or trojan warrior to Rome, (or Horse City fogbusting warrior to Rome on T80 if no risk.)
Antium switch to worker
Settler to 3E if Antium

T80
Settler 4E

T81
Gift away Stone city
Settle Horse city
Worker farm Corn

Your test run to mids looks good. Tciked all boxes.

I think at this stage if the micro looks good then we should go with it.

Our plan does involve a lot of road so less chance for a farm in Rome.

What I might do is try your current test save past 3rd city to see when I could build a 4th city vs using BW. Of course we still need a location for it.

My only other thought was a galley. Could we build a galley somewhere?? I know you have trojan building warriors. How likely will barbs be once they start to spawn cities.

Securing the horse site and fog busting it will be key. 2200-2000bc is normally date barb cities spawn. Each barb city that spawn adds 3 barb units.

Okay here is the challenge for testing. Earliest 4th city date without BW following Shulecs overall plan.

Something for you to try Yyeah!

I have been rather distracted today. A friend trying to plan a holiday. Why has everywhere got rain next week???

This is too far away to test it i think, 1st of all we need mids.
So maybe lets just bulid them and we will think what next after ?

My only other thought is if we are building warriors we are not building scouting workboats. Workboats can also fog bust.

Our second city is now on settler. I guess it could go workboat after the settler. It's tough if we choose 3rd city earlier we lose exploration chances. I guess a barb city could also spawn near the deer fish site too. Do we keep that site fogbust too?

Overall we can't do everything. What is more important? Horse site sooner really does help us here.

Gumbolt said:

My only other thought is if we are building warriors we are not building scouting workboats. Workboats can also fog bust.

Our second city is now on settler. I guess it could go workboat after the settler. It's tough if we choose 3rd city earlier we lose exploration chances. I guess a barb city could also spawn near the deer fish site too. Do we keep that site fogbust too?

Overall we can't do everything. What is more important? Horse site sooner really does help us here.

Click to expand...

We have two workboats coming. More will likely get eaten by barb galleys without accomplishing anything. Depending on coast tiles, a third may be needed.

yyeah said:

This is too far away to test it i think, 1st of all we need mids.
So maybe lets just bulid them and we will think what next after ?

Click to expand...

Gumbolt is right about work boats. All the ocean tiles appear to be coast. More barb galleys will appear.

Playing again.
T64 Brennus founds 4th City.
T66 Hannibal Archer shows up in our lands.
T68 Saladin switches to HR
T69 Brennus founds 5th City, Gilgamesh founds 4th
T70 Confucianism founded
T72 Saladin Hindu Missionary spotted headed to us unguarded.
T73 Zara proved World is Round; trade routes are available with Saladin, no resources to trade. He does not have stone. Darius researching IW.
T74 Brennus Scout spotted. Zara joins Darius as Confused. Brennus Spammed City 6.
T75 Darius founds City 4.
T76 Rome gets Hinduism. Saladin Culture spotted inland out west. Zara WB spotted.
T77 Gilgamesh switches to HR.
T79 Hannibal founds 4th city.
Stopping.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1480 BC to 900 BC:


Here is your Buffy Log from 1480 BC to 900 BC:


I will try to get a test game up soon.

Big decision time. Gift Trojan early or chance it. No other civs other than Saladin will take it because they all have four cities.

Well done so far!

Am I correct to assume we are three turns away from producing Mids if we keep the stone bonus? And each turn we gift stone city early will add another turn, right? So if we gift it this turn, it will be six turn until we produce the Mids. I'll wait for the test game to better visualise our current situation.

Hmmmm so Sal has horse and iron. He also has fish. He is on our land mass too. So maybe Preats would of worked? Big downside is he is 20 tiles away. We would need WM2 praets to reach him quickly. Would of needed a lot of luck to worker steal here.

Three Ai seem to have gone straight for Monarchy. So early fued is not impossible.

Mecca is S9. Probably too busy spamming mish to expand. Hmmm. That and fighting off the barbs. That archer of his has been in the wars. The reality is we could drop off a spy if we really wanted but it is a 10 turn journey by sea to mecca.

I would suggest astronomy is probably not needed here. I think we just have a spread out land mass. Although Astronomy might speed up troop movement. There is no way we will settle all the land here.

I see the Persians are in war mode?? Maybe aganst us?? Most likely the Celts.

Expect the AI to eat up the barb cities here. Could be why Celts have so many cities.

Zara to the east of us too.

So do we wait 1-2 more turns or risk Arabia building a 4th city? Would it matter?

Risk vs reward on mids. Risk that Mecca settles a 4th city. Risk that we lose mids. We know Arabia lacks stone. Should we gamble 1 more turn in hope he is spamming mish? We know we can drop off spies by sea now. Very long journey. 6 turns from mids is a long wait.

Small note on Wb exploration. Can we make sure we fully hug the outter coastline. Just in case we miss any islands.

Let's remove some of these unwanted signs. Shame we lost circ bonus. Looks like we had no chance on this.

Map thoughts. Maybe there is no gap on this pangea. A ring of land around whole map. Meaning the other Ai are on a upper ring? We have only seen units from 2 Ai so far.

Land mass so far is 40 long. I suspect closer to 45-50 long. Meaning our land mass can only be 15-22 tiles North to south. So I predict it's unlikely An AI is north of us.

422 =78 short. 26x3=78 13x6=78
26 52 78=3 turns
26 39 52 65 78 =5 turns

The big downside at 6 turns means no growth for 3 extra turns and a delay to rep. That is no growth with 1 more happy face. So a loss of 6 food and 6C.

Gifting stone early means trade routes. Plus a trojan city. Loving the location of our fog buster. Saves deer city from barbs.

We could play turn by turn. I would like to think we are risk takers to a degree.

This is a tough choice indeed. At least Saladin isn't anyone's worst enemy at the moment, which makes him a decent target to gift the city to. He could possibly become Brennus' worst enemy in the next couple of turns..

So the question is, how screwed are we if we can't gift Trojan stone? How screwed are we if we don't get the mids? I think missing the mids is worse than not being able to gift stone. But I also think it's less likely that happens. Saladin is quite likely to found a 4th city in the next few turns, he has lots of free land around him. But on the other hand, he's also taking all barbs TGW is sending to him, so he should be busy fighting off those.

Not a single ocean tile spotted yet, means our workboats can go everywhere. Lots of "coast" to explore. If we could keep stone until mids, we'd also get another exploring WB.