SGOTM 22 - TTfkapr

Packers5280 · Oct 19, 2015

I'm for waiting on gift as well. That should be his capital with the 3rd ring border, so we should be able to sneak a galley and settler over there and gift sally a crap city that way. Maybe by plains pigs. With the barbs streaming his way, he should hold settlers in his capital and be slow to expand.

shulec · Oct 19, 2015

OK. I am moving on.

So, the active players have weighed in as non-committal or in favor of not gifting Trojan at this time. I moved the workboat and no great insight gained.

So...here I go.

T80 - Still OK!
T81 - Still OK! Mids are ours!
T82 - YES!

I can't diminish this with spoilers:

shulec · Oct 20, 2015

Here is your Session Turn Log from 900 BC to 825 BC:

Spoiler :

Here is your Buffy Log from 900 BC to 825 BC:

Spoiler :

shulec · Oct 20, 2015

I am finished! Next player up!

What needs to be done:

Gift Trojan to Saladin
Screenshot our empire with 2 cities
Screenshot Rome with three workers
Settle Horse city 1W of Corn

Observations.
BTW, we have trade route potential with Zara. He has stone.
Saladin will trade rice.
We have trade routes with Mecca and Medina in Rome and Antium.
Brennus's land is visible if you pan out on the and toggle the culture screen. His culture is present far east.

We need to discuss if we are going to go immediately to Rep or if we wait for Slavery. City 4 can't be settled until Rome gets to Pop8. If we switch to Rep, we can be at Pop8 on T90 (8 turns). Without rep, it will take until T95 (13 turns) due to the two unhappies.

We should also consider going to BW (Archery and IW) and build archers for Rome. Knowing where Copper and Iron are for City 4 is huge.

Here is the test game:

Packers5280 · Oct 20, 2015

I can play next. Another thing is we have a great person in 4 turns as well. Probably Scotland yard for a Gspy. Maybe the small chance we want to infiltrate. Depends on how we compare tech wise with the AIs.

justjohn · Oct 20, 2015

Nice! Time to think about reaching our next goal. .)

I realise I have forgotten where to download the real save, which at some point I need to do. Anyone that can point me in the right direction? (It's been a little time since my last SGOTM.)

EDIT: Two more posts while I was reading/typing

shulec · Oct 20, 2015

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php
Click on the date next to TTFKAPR.

I updated the above post.

Belated - Welcome aboard. JJ

justjohn · Oct 20, 2015

Wow, I thought I could edit my post (and I admit, I deleted a sentence that was no longer necessary in addition too the EDIT written) before anyone would read my original post (since I did it immediately), but apperently shulec read it since "I updated the above post" probably refers to my deleted sentence.

And thanks for the link and the welcome!

shulec · Oct 20, 2015

justjohn said:
Wow, I thought I could edit my post (and I admit, I deleted a sentence that was no longer necessary in addition too the EDIT written) before anyone would read my original post (since I did it immediately), but apperently shulec read it since "I updated the above post" probably refers to my deleted sentence.

And thanks for the link and the welcome!

I didn't see it, but I don't like it when previous posts are edited with significant changes without notification. They often get missed if others are on the thread at the same time. So I just wanted to draw attention to post 624.

justjohn · Oct 20, 2015

shulec said:
I didn't see it, but I don't like it when previous posts are edited with significant changes without notification. They often get missed if others are on the thread at the same time. So I just wanted to draw attention to post 624.

The deleted sentence was me wondering if you had already gifted stone city or not, which you have already answered in the between-post.

I don't usually edit my posts without making a note, but I thought I was so fast (15 sec after original post or so), and then I thought I hadn't been fast enough. Just me being foolish.

Anyway, about switching to Rep immediately or not. I suspect the extra turn lost for switching twice is made up for with what we get (lux, giving faster growth and more income/production that way), especially if we decide to settle the great person we get. But we can analyse the question better when we have a more detailed plan for our next set of turns.

Gumbolt · Oct 20, 2015

Elite or Justjohn are up next. (Then it's packers.) I am glad we took the risk here. Well done Shulec for going with heart over mind.

Looking at live save. Celts are our neighbours. How long before they do a silly DOW?

All sea tiles are coast. That extra workboat could be very useful. Assuming there are some islands here. This also means barb galleys can in theory go anywhere on map? Or be led anywhere on map?

Location of copper/Iron? Vs early city 4. One possibility is to use fish and Rome to chop archers? Would speed up the process. Another is to just use chariots and skip archery.

My gut says Iron would of been given to us near capital. I doubt BSP would place it somewhere silly given the neighbours. The reality is we are a long way off IW. To steal any techs we need alphabet asap. Then we need spies too.

Time for some more testing!! Delaying BW vs switching to slavery and rep now.

We should get +6 diplo with Arabs after gift. Pleased.

We should consider gifting resources to Celts as and when we can for diplo.

Gumbolt · Oct 20, 2015

The test game need editing. Should be wine, corn and horse near new city!!

Once you start building chariots they arrive quite quickly. Building worker in second city delays settler on a non BW approach. Had 4th city by 350bc.
Capital - Library/settler.
Fish - Worker/chariot?

Slight dilema on horse city. I went granary first with farm/horse/mine. Horse first would offer chariots/granary but slower growth. Pends how quickly we want chariots.

Techs. Alphabet for stealing seems good next? We may get lucky and Arabs take xtianity. Or currency? Unless we want a war tech like construction/horse sooner?

We could go for IW ourselves?? Should be cheap if many Ai already have it? Better to steal or better to build some decent Praets asap? 3-4 galleys to go with them?

The shrine of Arabs looks nice. Distance is main hurdle in war here. Plus risk of Arabs getting feudalism early.

Gumbolt · Oct 20, 2015

The big problem for BW asap is we lack the ability to build 7-8 units quickly. Skipping BW means we already have 8 warriors. So could settle a 4th city? Would we have iron? Who knows?? if we want to use Praets we will need iron and BW.

On test game I left cow site unfogged and a barb city appeared there. Royally screwed me. Although it is a city to attack? I was slow to horse and i only had 3 chariots by 400bc. Meaning 5 more needed before city no 4. I did manage to get 3 workers and 2 farms up.

One option is to prepare the horse resource first. Not great in terms of the city growth. Another option is to hope we have iron or go archery straight after BW/maths and build archers.

Let me test this.

elitetroops · Oct 20, 2015

Very well played Shulec!

I can take it from here, have more time now.

So, we need to decide what our goal is for next turnset. I see 2 options for civics, either we switch to rep this turn and found 4th city with 8 warriors, or we finish BW this turn and switch to rep and slavery next turn. 2nd option probably slows down 4th city, but allows us to reveal copper and possibly iron before deciding where to put it. Main problem with 1st option is that I don't see any obvious spot to settle 4th city right now. Will need to test how these options play out.

The new WB in stone should head southwest to explore the open sea in search of islands, I think.

What is our next short term goal to achieve? Any wonders/techs we are aiming for?

Gumbolt · Oct 20, 2015

Good to have you up next Elite. This is probably a difficult set as lot of things we need to achieve here.

Testing BW/Archery next. Of course if we have copper mined already that would hugely change our choices here. If we truly want to get 4th city sooner we need 8 warriors or a mix of chariots/archers.

The next big question is long term objective?? Early war?? If so what units? We have phants?

justjohn · Oct 20, 2015

elitetroops said:
I can take it from here, have more time now.

Very good. Then I might be next.

So, we need to decide what our goal is for next turnset. I see 2 options for civics, either we switch to rep this turn and found 4th city with 8 warriors, or we finish BW this turn and switch to rep and slavery next turn.

Aha! I didn't know we had invested research into BW and can finish it in one turn! That makes the double civic change a more viable option, of course.

Gumbolt · Oct 20, 2015

Settler was delayed but that was through my own choice. With loss of 3 forest I managed to build 7 archers in rome. 1 in horse. So 4th city by 400bc is possible. This could probably time well with IW. I went worker first in Rome.

Horse - farm then horse.

Fish - Worker, granary, settler whipped. Probably should of whipped worker first too.

Techs - BW, archery, maths, IW.

Pretty sure on live game we will have iron or copper.

Gumbolt · Oct 20, 2015

justjohn said:
Very good. Then I might be next.

Aha! I didn't know we had invested research into BW and can finish it in one turn! That makes the double civic change a more viable option, of course.

This is why we give you time to get to grips with the game.

Would love to see some more test games from you all.

Or long term thoughts. I agree with Elite we have no strong 4th city sites. We also need to decide what to do with the warriors once we replace them? They will be costing hammers unless we can get some free upgrades to praets with GG.

yyeah · Oct 20, 2015

shulec

Without stone HG's arent great option...
IF we get GSpy i more like to send him to Saladin and steal some techs then bulid SY becouse this force us to make somekind of Spy eco witch i dont rly like.
Reason is ... ok its cheaper then selftechin things but, it doeasnt set us ahead ,we need to waste turns to get Spy points etc etc, maybe in like rly long term this would be efficient but ... i just more like to have some techs right now in begining things like fast CS, MC, Monarchy, Currancy i more like to have this quicker then just you know toying(?) with Spy eco.
Becouse of that Alpha is preety good choice for me, but well its preety though becouse i allso more like to have BW and IW sooner... another things what we need is Calendar ( we can settle N spots with it , thats decent land but take a lot of time to develop it).

Gumbolt · Oct 20, 2015

Are we against a naval assault with praet and a few catapults??

I think Shulec wanted to settle the Gspy for science. Assuming we get one!

From what I can see here is we have a lot of forest. We might want IW and construction for our war. We have 3 decent cities now. We can easily chop out an army with 3-4 workers. We can then use this to settle a fourth city. Then send out a fleet to Sal or Celts. We could capture 2-3 of Sal's city if we planned growth in our capital to size 12. The problem is the time it would take to do this. We could pre chop forest but the boat ride to Sal is 10 turns.

Which begs question of how we plan to win by conquest?? Galleons would really speed this up.

What is our long term plan to win this????

SGOTM 22 - TTfkapr

Deity

Grrrrr... I AM the force!

Grrrrr... I AM the force!

Grrrrr... I AM the force!

Deity

King

Grrrrr... I AM the force!

King

Grrrrr... I AM the force!

King

Phoenix Rising

Phoenix Rising

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Phoenix Rising

Deity

Phoenix Rising

King

Phoenix Rising

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Emperor

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