SGOTM 03 - Geezers

Dagnabit · Jan 11, 2007

I can leave the religion Civic on the table and play in an hour or wait and play this evening (6-7hrs) what ever the teams pleasure.

Currently:

Trade Ed for Techs. Engineering- start Hagia Sophia in Moscow. CS- Switch Civic to Bureaucracy (1 turn of no production), Upgrade a couple of Axes. Pickup any other techs avail.

Peddle world Map- (Discreetly although I think it is a little too early to choose sides)

Printing Press>Sci Meth (Will note Science rates if possible)

Workboats for Athens, Keep Eng Specialist employed in Coppertownski.

If Great Scientist arrives it will be at the very end of my turnset so will delay using him for Sci Meth until further discussed.

Oh Yeah- take Quang & Hang and end war with Mao

Thrallia · Jan 11, 2007

sounds like that would be a nice productive turnset, dagnabit

I've not got my disc with me, so I can't go in depth about anything, but we should remember that in order to do christianity and pacifism, we'll have to adopt christianity first, then wait 5-7 turns before we can switch to pacifism...I'm not entirely sure Pacifism will be worth it, honestly. I think we can boost our sustainable science rate to 60% by ending the war, building courthouses everywhere, building the Forbidden Palace in Beijing, possibly adopting vassalage(gain extra free units), and adopting free religion. Banking/Economics will help a ton as well, and trading for democracy(Univ Suff/Emancipation) will also help greatly increase our income. An empire our size should easily hit 70% sustainable once all the above is done.

I'm just not convinced that two separate revolutions for a total of 2-3 turns to get christianity and pacifism, followed by another 2 turns later on to switch to free religion will be worth that much to us.

Thrallia · Jan 11, 2007

btw, Trash Team had Mao build the Great Lighthouse, too bad he didn't do that for us

Since we meet the criteria now for the spoiler thread, are we going to post a spoiler up through meeting America?

Sam_Yeager · Jan 11, 2007

Dagnabit said:
CS- Switch Civic to Bureaucracy (1 turn of no production), Upgrade a couple of Axes.

Can we get Printing Press researched before we start switching civics or upgrading units please. We probably need to run research at zero for a while anyway to build up research funds.

Novgorod should pop a GS in about 8 turns assuming it can maintain it's science specialists.

EDIT: I would prefer leaving the religion civic on the table. I'm happy for you to play shortly rather than wait until evening.

Dagnabit · Jan 11, 2007

Off to play

Sam_Yeager · Jan 11, 2007

@DynamicSpirit - I've finally managed to make some time to investigate your proposals in a bit more detail. As I understand it the way it works is :

Pacifism reduces costs by 10 gpt. However to make use of it you need a state religion so that explains the proposal to adopt christianity.
Caste system allows more than 2 specialists per city and it's the additional specialists that allow us to generate GSs faster. :lightbulb: I was struggling to understand how adopting christianity speeded up the supply of GSs.
We need three turns of anarchy to change two civics and one to adopt a state religion.

To paraphrase another team member, at my age it takes me a bit longer to get the hang of it.

Looked at in that light it makes rather more sense although the three turns of anarchy is somewhat daunting. :sad:

One question would be whether that might encourage Monty, currently top of the power graph, to look at attacking us. Worse, he might combine with Toku. :eek:

However IIRC they have different religions so that may well not be a problem.

Whilst on the subject of civic changes generally I have to say that Free Speech also looks attractive although of course that's another turn of anarchy. Sigh.

By the by I notice that Toku is now second in pop and land.

Just the sort of person we want as an opponent .

Dagnabit · Jan 11, 2007

Started off Great then I fell on my sword...

Turn 260 (1220 AD)- Start Printing Press (17T) 0%+103G/(1T)100%-134G/Breakeven 46%. Traded JC WM & 50G; Traded Gandhi Education for Engineering, 180G & WM; Gandhi Cancel Iron for 3GPT, renegotiated Clam for 4GPT: Hattie Ivory for 5GPT; Traded Vicki Education for CS, Music & 40G; Traded Monty Paper for 130G (He goes from Cautious to Pleased); Traded Isabella WM for 80G; Cyrus renegotiate Clam from 4 to 5GPT; Traded Kublai WM for 70G; Traded Wash Cow for 2GPT. Started Hagia Sophia in Moscow. MMd to 25H taking St P/NNovo tiles. Still growing in 7. MMd Sparta work Iron instead of Marble. Athens changed build to WB; Nanjing changed build to Cat; Beijing changed build to Cat>Sword; NNov sent worker to hook Cow

Turn 261 (1226 AD)[/b Printing Press in>Sci Method 100%went from -125G to-126G? 0%+125GPT Breakeven 51%(23Turns to SciMeth). Toku wants Optics for 30G-Thanks but no thanks. Change to Bureaucracy (1 Turn Anarchy)
Bombarded Guangzhou to 24%

IBT- Cyrus adopts Bureaucracy
Turn 262 (1232 AD)- Bombarded Guangzhou to 0%

IBT- Mansa Hereditary Rule; Victoria adopts theocracy; Grr! Revolt in Beijing (4Turns) Mace AX 2 Longbows damaged
Turn 263 (1238 AD)-Lose Sword w/87% odds. Run out of troops Guang down to 3.0HorseArch and 1.6Lbow

Turn 264 (1244 AD)-Mans (pleased)offers Guilds & 20G for Printing Press- I accept. Arg!!JC(pleased) Demands we stop trading with Persia- I agree. Monty(pleased) asks us to fight the germans- I plead poverty
Rushed Theatres in Sparta, St Pete
Ouch! Lost 2 swords and Cat (Maceman Reinforced Quangzhou) but it is ours!
IBT Sparta unhappy
Turn 265 (1250 AD)- Healing Troops, moving Cats to Hangzhou
Finished Granary in Coppertownski started Christian Monestary (5 turns) It will be obsolete with Sci Method so if we want that missionary for Athens this is the quickest at this time. New Novgorod Stagnant &Angry rushed Lighthouse for 1pop
Sent Caravelle to Xian for look See (2 unpromoted Lbows,1Spear)

Turn 266 (1256 AD)- Beijing is ours again.
Horse Archer Attachs Kills a Sword healing in Quangzou Arg!! He is going to pay for leaving Hangzou! ( By the way they just built a mighty Archer in Hang to replace Mr. Soon to pay HorseArcher!)
Our Medic HorseArcher was given the honor and dispatch the hooligan.
Vickie has quite an arsenal of Knights in London.(screenie)3
Start bombarding Hangzhou.

IBT-Grumpy Toku doesnt like the Malinese- I said we do!
Buddism Spread to Athens
Mao is trying to repent and adopts Theocracy

Turn 267 (1262 AD)-Last clam in Athens hooked up>forge
Hangzhou bombarded to 0%
2 Spears in Chengdu-da-du-da (say that real fast)
Rushed Christian Monestary in Coppertownski for 1 pop

IBT-Kublai(Cautious) asks for Theology and I am in a generous mood and am glad to help

Turn 268 (1268 AD)-Coppertownski Christian Monestary>Missionary
5 Million Souls looking for Love in the Siberian winter.
Arg lost 3cats 2 mace 1 sword and didnt take Hang. Should have waited to heal cats more. Left us in pretty bad position I am afraid.

Turn 269 (1274 AD)-Werner Heisenberg born in Novgorod will provide +2709 beakers towards Sci Meth Leave him for the time being
Shanghai switched to Cat; Cat rushed in Beijing for 1 pop
IBT- Louis as for open borders and I decline

Turn 270 (1280 AD)- Quangzhou comes out of revolt next turn
GS can still be used this turn. 1 full Cat ready, 2 healing, 1 in route. Rushed for 1 pop a Cat in Shanghai.

Things were going well and I didnt do a very good job the last 3 turns. Sorry to let the team down.

Spoiler :

Turn 260, 1220 AD: You have discovered Engineering!
Turn 260, 1220 AD: You have discovered Music!
Turn 260, 1220 AD: You have discovered Civil Service!
Turn 260, 1220 AD: You have discovered Printing Press!
Turn 260, 1220 AD: You have constructed a Harbor in St. Petersburg. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 260, 1220 AD: You have constructed a Harbor in Coppertownski. Work has now begun on a Granary.
Turn 260, 1220 AD: The borders of Rostov have expanded!
Turn 260, 1220 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Nanjing. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 260, 1220 AD: Cyrus adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 260, 1220 AD: Wang Xizhi has been born in Bombay!

Turn 261, 1226 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 261, 1226 AD: Geezers adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 261, 1226 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 261, 1226 AD: Mansa Musa adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 261, 1226 AD: Marie Curie has been born in Rome!
Turn 261, 1226 AD: Victoria adopts Theocracy!
Turn 261, 1226 AD: A Chinese revolt has taken place in Beijing!

Turn 262, 1232 AD: You have constructed a Courthouse in Lodestone City. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 262, 1232 AD: The borders of Shanghai have expanded!
Turn 262, 1232 AD: Valmiki has been born in Paris!
Turn 262, 1232 AD: Mao Zedong converts to Buddhism!
Turn 262, 1232 AD: Louis XIV has made peace with Isabella!

Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult (5.00) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (11.70)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult (5.00) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (11.70)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult (5.00) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (9.18)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Combat Odds: 1.6%
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 14 (76/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 14 (62/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 14 (48/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult (5.00) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (7.48)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Combat Odds: 12.8%
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 14 (50/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Catapult!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (6.60) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (3.30)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Combat Odds: 97.2%
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 23 (27/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 23 (4/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman has defeated Mao Zedong's Longbowman!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (6.00) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (3.99)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Combat Odds: 87.1%
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 22 (48/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 22 (26/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Swordsman!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (6.00) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (4.32)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Combat Odds: 91.6%
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman has defeated Mao Zedong's Longbowman!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (6.00) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (3.42)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Combat Odds: 95.6%
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 22 (38/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 22 (16/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Swordsman has defeated Mao Zedong's Longbowman!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult (5.00) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (4.89)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Combat Odds: 72.4%
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 16 (32/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 16 (16/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult has defeated Mao Zedong's Longbowman!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult (5.00) vs Mao Zedong's Horse Archer (3.30)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Combat Odds: 95.1%
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (30/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (10/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Catapult has defeated Mao Zedong's Horse Archer!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Horse Archer (6.60) vs Mao Zedong's Spearman (4.70)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Combat Odds: 88.7%
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: (Combat: +100%)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Spearman is hit for 19 (31/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Spearman is hit for 19 (12/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Mao Zedong's Spearman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Geezers's Horse Archer has defeated Mao Zedong's Spearman!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Nanjing. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Isabella adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Isabella adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Saladin adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Saladin adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Washington adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Washington adopts Serfdom!

Turn 264, 1244 AD: You have discovered Guilds!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Catapult (5.00) vs Mao Zedong's Maceman (8.80)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Combat Odds: 3.2%
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Maceman has defeated Geezers's Catapult!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (6.00) vs Mao Zedong's Maceman (8.40)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Combat Odds: 12.0%
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Maceman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Maceman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Maceman has defeated Geezers's Swordsman!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (6.00) vs Mao Zedong's Maceman (7.07)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Combat Odds: 40.0%
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Maceman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Maceman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Maceman is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Maceman is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Maceman has defeated Geezers's Swordsman!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (5.47) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (3.33)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Combat Odds: 94.7%
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 16 (67/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 23 (41/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 16 (51/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 23 (18/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman has defeated Mao Zedong's Longbowman!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (4.86) vs Mao Zedong's Horse Archer (2.06)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 15 (66/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer is hit for 26 (24/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman has defeated Mao Zedong's Horse Archer!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (6.00) vs Mao Zedong's Maceman (0.33)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mao Zedong's Maceman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Geezers's Swordsman has defeated Mao Zedong's Maceman!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: You have captured Guangzhou!!!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: The borders of Nanjing have expanded!

Turn 265, 1250 AD: The borders of Beijing have expanded!
Turn 265, 1250 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer (6.60) vs Geezers's Swordsman (3.96)
Turn 265, 1250 AD: Combat Odds: 96.4%
Turn 265, 1250 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 265, 1250 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 265, 1250 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 23 (43/100HP)
Turn 265, 1250 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 23 (20/100HP)
Turn 265, 1250 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 265, 1250 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer has defeated Geezers's Swordsman!

Turn 266, 1256 AD: Geezers's Horse Archer (6.60) vs Mao Zedong's Horse Archer (5.47)
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Combat Odds: 73.0%
Turn 266, 1256 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 266, 1256 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Geezers's Horse Archer is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (63/100HP)
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Geezers's Horse Archer is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (43/100HP)
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (23/100HP)
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Geezers's Horse Archer is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Geezers's Horse Archer is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (3/100HP)
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Mao Zedong's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Geezers's Horse Archer has defeated Mao Zedong's Horse Archer!
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Hangzhou to 27%!
Turn 266, 1256 AD: You have trained a Maceman in Beijing. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 266, 1256 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Athens. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Buddhism has spread in Athens.
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Hatshepsut adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Louis XIV adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Albert Einstein has been born in Karakorum!
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Mao Zedong adopts Theocracy!

Turn 267, 1262 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Hangzhou to 12%!
Turn 267, 1262 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Hangzhou to 0%!
Turn 267, 1262 AD: Frederick has 50 gold available for trade
Turn 267, 1262 AD: St. Petersburg has grown to size 12
Turn 267, 1262 AD: The borders of Coppertownski have expanded!

Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult (3.80) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (14.70)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (4 Units)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 34 (42/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 11 (89/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 34 (8/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 34 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Catapult!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Catapult has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult (2.75) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (13.08)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (4 Units)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 35 (20/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 35 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Catapult!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Catapult has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult (2.95) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (13.08)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (4 Units)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 35 (24/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 35 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Catapult!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Catapult has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult (3.10) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (13.08)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (4 Units)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 35 (27/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Catapult has withdrawn from combat with a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult (5.00) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (13.08)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (4 Units)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 32 (68/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 32 (36/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Catapult is hit for 32 (4/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 12 (77/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 12 (65/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Catapult has withdrawn from combat with a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Maceman (8.80) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (8.77)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 56.9%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Maceman is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Maceman is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Maceman is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Maceman is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Maceman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Maceman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Maceman has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Maceman (8.00) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (9.55)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 32.5%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Maceman is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Maceman is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Maceman is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Maceman is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Maceman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Maceman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Maceman has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Swordsman (6.00) vs Mao Zedong's Longbowman (8.38)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 15.0%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 15 (50/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman is hit for 15 (35/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Swordsman is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Mao Zedong's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Swordsman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Swordsman has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi has 150 gold available for trade
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Werner Heisenberg has been born in Novgorod!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Athens will grow to size 6 on the next turn

Turn 269, 1274 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Hangzhou to 0%!
Turn 269, 1274 AD: Huayna Capac has 120 gold available for trade
Turn 269, 1274 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Beijing. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 269, 1274 AD: Athens has grown to size 6
Turn 269, 1274 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Mansa Musa

The save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/Geezers_SG003_AD1280_01.Civ4SavedGame

Htadus · Jan 12, 2007

Got it, looked at it and exited to desk top.

..All we are saying...is to give peace a chance..

Peace will take care of most of our current social problems. St.P has -6 happy faces and most has at least 3. We are building temples when we need Markets and Courthouses. We only have 2 Markets and 4 courthouses :eek:

. We have 5 cities in the Fatherland, 1 on island and 7 from conquest. With our next and last for the moment conquest, we will have 14 cities total and we need more of these two improvements. We will get more commerce once we get the unhappy people with the program. But in order to get 100% science running all the time, we need about 140 gpt. Yikes :cry:

. We need some infrastructure.

Goal at hand is to declare peace and the way to get there is to win;

The Hang Zhou Bowl:

On the defense, Mao has 4 LB's (lightly damaged at the moment but not at the top of next turn), 1 Mace and HA

On the offense, we have 3 Maces, 3 cats (two severely damaged) 1 sword and a HA. Also nearby, we have a LB and Sword (seem to be going south???) and a Cat on its way to join the Bowl.

What is a poor Htadus' to do??? :confused:

I do not feel we have enough units to take the city next turn. I would like to get the additional 3 units there before attacking (2 turns?). Of course if combat odds say anything above 80%, then the temptation.....hummm. :ar15:

Of course all this depend on what the defensive team will do IBT.

BTW, at our current approval rate of 16 out of 16, I do not think our own people will vote for us. :lol:

Does the approval rate a reflection on how all other civs feel about us or is it how our citizens feel about us as a ruler?

Science:
I am for light bulbing Sci Meth since getting to our objective tech is more important than anything else and we can only then start building the UN. BTW Musa is willing to trade Banking but all we got to trade is expensive techs. I think we should wait until we are ready to build banks to trade for it or we think we can learn Economics next for free markets civic. By the way why dont we trade some thing to Musa and get Banking and see if Vicky even exploring that path. We will never know unless we try. (I would say she is since she is Financial after all) Vicky does not want to trade that and Divine Right yet either.

Civis:
There are 3 Civs with Christianity and everyone else such as Hatty and Musa who are our buds believe in other heathen deities. Do we want to loose the semi friendly civs? I am for free religion. Free markets also sound good to me. But what do I know about it? Nothing beyond that 10% science boost. I have yet to play a game to that level before starting another. So for this I will rely on your opinions as usual.

Builds:
I will when given the opportunity, start at least 1 of each market and a courthouse. I think we still need more units for Fatherland security. So should it be LB's or Maces?

Dag nab it,

D could not resist) I need to open the file again to see the build conditions, I only recal Ltown will be completing LH and another a Cat.

Anyways, I will wait to hear comments for 24 hours (22 actually) and play with your recomendations.

EDIT: I like to build a
Knight in Cski
Courthouse each in Shanghai and Beijing
Cultural building in Ltown or a market.

Shanghai already have a market and need a courthouse, Beijing need both. Since we need a courthouse to build the FP, asap, next build in Beijing should be a courthouse.

We are still wanting the FP in Beijing right?

markh · Jan 12, 2007

What I read sounds good and also on the results page our graph looks nice. :goodjob:

I am for using the GS on SciMeth.

Hopefully I can have a look at save this evening.

markh · Jan 12, 2007

If my internet connection won't be fixed today I will be cut from the world the whole weekend, but I think you guys will handle the game perfectly well without me.

Sam_Yeager · Jan 12, 2007

Htadus said:
St.P has -6 happy faces and most has at least 3.

I think we need to make use of the culture slider. At 20% we should eleiminate unhappiness for the time being. That gives us Scientific Method in 13 @ 80% before we use the GS. After playing about with the calculator my guess is 6 turns once we use the GS which is just about sustainable.

Htadus said:
We are building temples when we need Markets and Courthouses. We only have 2 Markets and 4 courthouses .[/quote[

To be fair I think that was more with an eye on possible conversion to a state religion.

Htadus said:

We have 5 cities in the Fatherland, 1 on island and 7 from conquest. With our next and last for the moment conquest, we will have 14 cities total and we need more of these two improvements.

Click to expand...

Ermm, the total is right but I think it breaks down as 6 cities in the Fatherland, 1 on island and 6 from conquest.

Htadus said:

Goal at hand is to declare peace and the way to get there is to win;

The Hang Zhou Bowl:

On the defense, Mao has 4 LB's (lightly damaged at the moment but not at the top of next turn), 1 Mace and HA

On the offense, we have 3 Maces, 3 cats (two severely damaged) 1 sword and a HA. Also nearby, we have a LB and Sword (seem to be going south???) and a Cat on its way to join the Bowl.

What is a poor Htadus' to do???

I do not feel we have enough units to take the city next turn. I would like to get the additional 3 units there before attacking (2 turns?). Of course if combat odds say anything above 80%, then the temptation.....hummm. Of course all this depend on what the defensive team will do IBT.

Click to expand...

Good question. Clicking on the LB & sword shows they are headed towards our main attack group. Clicking on the northern most mace shows it headed towards the other mace on the hill. @Dagnabit - it's generally good etiquette to stop 'goto's beyond the end of your turn in SGs. At least in this case I can see what's happening.

I agree that we've got no chance of taking Hangzhou at present. I suggest sending our two injured cats and the injured sword NW towards our culture to heal (they'll take ages otherwise). Cancel the 'goto'on the northern most mace on the pre-turn so that if Mao is tempted to send out units to attack them we have a another decent unit to help take them out. Reinforcements (?) - another good question. Moscow can build an elephant in 3 turns if
we interrupt the HS build (stop biting my leg Thrallia) but by the time it can get to the attack force it'll probably be towards the end of your turn. Both Spart & Beijing will take 8 turns to build more military unless they're whipped which I would prefer us not to do.

Hmm. The more I think about it I wonder if it's best to go for peace now? Not at all ideal but since we need to run culture at @ 20% to remove unhappiness and we'll probably at war for at least ten more turns it may be the best choice.

Htadus said:

Does the approval rate a reflection on how all other civs feel about us or is it how our citizens feel about us as a ruler?

Click to expand...

I'm pretty certain it shows how our pop feel about us.

Htadus said:

I am for light bulbing Sci Meth since getting to our objective tech is more important than anything else and we can only then start building the UN. BTW Musa is willing to trade Banking but all we got to trade is expensive techs. I think we should wait until we are ready to build banks to trade for it or we think we can learn Economics next for free markets civic. By the way why dont we trade some thing to Musa and get Banking and see if Vicky even exploring that path. We will never know unless we try. (I would say she is since she is Financial after all) Vicky does not want to trade that and Divine Right yet either.

Click to expand...

Certainly agree with using GS. The problem with Musa is that he's not popular with Julius, Vicki or Ghandhi, especially Julius. I would prefer to avoid demerits if possible.

Htadus said:

There are 3 Civs with Christianity and everyone else such as Hatty and Musa who are our buds believe in other heathen deities. Do we want to loose the semi friendly civs? I am for free religion. Free markets also sound good to me. But what do I know about it? Nothing beyond that 10% science boost.

Click to expand...

I think we need to be clear about what purpose any particular civic change is designed to achieve and the associated costs and benefits.

DynamicSpirit proposed converting to christianity and switching to pacifism & caste system. As I understand it the primary purpose was to speed up the generation of great scientists so that we can pop techs. Caste increases maintenance by 6 gpt. It allows unlimited specialists. Pacifism reduces maintenance by 11 gpt. It increases the birth rate of great people by 100% in cities with state religion. It also increases costs by 1 gpt per military unit. Adopting a state religion will cost one turn of anarchy. Switching to
pacifism will cost an additional two turns of anarchy. Switching to caste will cost two turns of anarchy. However if we switch to both civics at once it will cost three turns of anarchy. So the best case will be four turns of anarchy in total. Other effects will be that the christian block will like us more whilst obviously non christian civs will like us less.

Free religion gives one happy per non state religion in a city and 10% extra science in all cities. It makes no difference to our maintenance costs and doesn't affect any other civs. Principal purpose is to increase science. It costs two turns of anarchy.

Free speech gives +100% culture in each city and + two gold per town. It costs two turns of anarchy. Maintenance is reduced by 5 gpt. This civic does not directly affect science although it does make more gold available to be used for research. Downside is that switching to this civic means we lose bureaucracy (Thrallia, I said leave my leg alone).

It's worth pointing out that Peter is philosophical so we already get +100% great person rate. My personal view is that if we are going to switch civics then we should go for free speech, caste and free religion at a cost of three turns of anarchy plus an additional 1gpt in maintenance. However the question is whether we gain more than we lose by switching civics.

Htadus said:

Builds:
I will when given the opportunity, start at least 1 of each market and a courthouse. I think we still need more units for Fatherland security. So should it be LB's or Maces?

Click to expand...

If we're only talking about defense then LBs are probably better and cheaper. However I think maces have more upgrade potential.

Htadus said:

Anyways, I will wait to hear comments for 24 hours (22 actually) and play with your recomendations.

Click to expand...

I think we may need some time to discuss the way forward so you may need to defer your turn

Htadus said:

Shanghai already have a market and need a courthouse, Beijing need both. Since we need a courthouse to build the FP, asap, next build in Beijing should be a courthouse.

We are still wanting the FP in Beijing right?

Click to expand...

I suspect the next build in Beijing may well be military. It depends on whether we're still at war. AFAIK we still want the FP in Beijing.

DynamicSpirit · Jan 12, 2007

Sam_Yeager said:
If we're only talking about defense then LBs are probably better and cheaper. However I think maces have more upgrade potential.

Depends. If we want to be able to lightbulb electricity, it's crucial to avoid discovering gunpowder until we've done that - in which case maces will have no upgrade potential. OTOH they remain our strongest overall attack unit and and will be very useful for a long time (as will longbows - our strongest city defence unit).

Dagnabit · Jan 12, 2007

@Sam-I do know about not leaving troops on go to. Sorry..

I just missed it. The intent was to cover the mine to lower Mao's production. The other Mace beat him there by a turn and I forgot to stop him. There are also a couple galleys and maybe a caravelle asleep on our seafood.
I also thought that peace now might be a better option. The distance factor as you stated to get fresh troops is at least 6 turns from Moscow(3sea,3march) about 8 turns from Ctown and Lodestone plus build time. It might be quicker from sparta but whipping will still be 10turns.
I would not delay Hagia sophia at this stage if it can be avoided.
@Htadus-

Sorry I left the battlefront in such disarray- will try and do better next time

Sam_Yeager · Jan 12, 2007

DynamicSpirit said:
Depends. If we want to be able to lightbulb electricity, it's crucial to avoid discovering gunpowder until we've done that - in which case maces will have no upgrade potential.

This is why I didn't say go for any particular one unit explicitly. However, we still need to research Radio as I don't think it can be light-bulbed. As Radio takes ages we may still want to refresh/upgrade units whilst that's taking place which is why the type of unit can be important.

Sam_Yeager · Jan 12, 2007

Dagnabit said:
@Sam-I do know about not leaving troops on go to. Sorry.. I just missed it.

That's ok. I've been caught out for that in the past as well.

DynamicSpirit · Jan 12, 2007

Just had a look at the save. My feeling is I'd rather not declare peace now, I'd rather finish the war as soon as possible. Reasons are (1) Guangzhou is totally useless coz of hemmed in by culture until we take Hangzhou. (2) If we go for peace now, we'll have to declare war again. That'll give us min. 10 turns with the same unhappiness problems we have now (except possibly worse coz our cities will be bigger and so less able to sustain the unhappiness), and with no guarantee Mao will be willing to make peace at the end of that time.

I think if we're ruthless about it we can get Hangzhou and end the war in 6-8 turns. Key points are:
1. Bring the axe and chariot from Lodestone City to Guangzhou. If we use the pre-turn to start doing that, they can be there in 3 turns. (Obviously if doing that, keep a caravel/galley handy to deal with the unlikely event of Mao launching a counterattack against Lodestone, though I don't think he has the boats to do it).
2. Poprush in Sparta/Beijing/Nanjing/Shanghai (Shanghai: After the cat completes). Yes I know they haven't come out of unhappiness from the last whip, so I understand Sam's reluctance to do so, but it's the only way we'll get the war ended quickly. (More to the point: It's the only way to avoid the risk of losing Guangzhou/Beijing to those Chinese maces). Knights are better than maces right now, because pre-CRII, they are slightly stronger at city attack, because they can get to the battle faster, and because they can take out maces in the open. (But Nanjing that's already started on a mace may as well finish it). With the 5 cats, that should give us enough units to take Hangzhou.
3. Make sure the unpromoted cats get city raider promotion NOT barrage(after the first couple have attacked and caused some collateral damage, city raider will be more effective than barrage).
4. We won't get the cats by Hangzhou to heal any faster by moving them out. As it stands it's 7 turns to heal the most wounded one. Moving them out it's a total of 4 turns moving plus probably 4-5 turns to heal.
5. Pull the longbow and archer out of Athens and Sparta, so they can defend Beijing/help in the battle. It doesn't matter for now about leaving those towns undefended (other than unhappiness): Mao can't get to either city. (But keep a caravel to watch Huayna, who doesn't like us and could get to Athens if he declared war). (Could consider doing that tof Shanghai too but I think there's a small risk of a revolt there if we do)

Doing all that, get a large stack by Hangzhou asap - should take 6ish turns to do so. Then attack as soon as we have enough units to be confident of taking the city. It doesn't matter if the first sacrifical cats are still healing - that won't effect the collateral damage they do, as long as the later units and the CR cats are roughly healed.

I don't see any point trying to get units off the mainland: It'll take too long to get them to the battle. (Maybe remove the warrior from Moscow to do happiness duty in Sparta or Athens). And I think the Hagia Sophia is too important to interrupt work on.

DynamicSpirit · Jan 12, 2007

I don't think it's worth using the culture slider to deal with the unhappiness, as there's only really two cities on the mainland that are affected by it so far; the culture slider will reduce gold from all cities. Easier to take advantage of it by poprushing in the affected cities :-)

(Courthouses would be good. Or Universities so we can look towards building Oxford University).

DynamicSpirit · Jan 12, 2007

Sam_Yeager said:
@DynamicSpirit - I've finally managed to make some time to investigate your proposals in a bit more detail. As I understand it the way it works is :

Thanks

Sam_Yeager said:
Pacifism reduces costs by 10 gpt. However to make use of it you need a state religion so that explains the proposal to adopt christianity.

Caste system allows more than 2 specialists per city and it's the additional specialists that allow us to generate GSs faster. :lightbulb: I was struggling to understand how adopting christianity speeded up the supply of GSs.

We need three turns of anarchy to change two civics and one to adopt a state religion.

To paraphrase another team member, at my age it takes me a bit longer to get the hang of it. Looked at in that light it makes rather more sense although the three turns of anarchy is somewhat daunting.
One question would be whether that might encourage Monty, currently top of the power graph, to look at attacking us. Worse, he might combine with Toku. However IIRC they have different religions so that may well not be a problem.

Yep you pretty much got it. Basically I'm thinking that right now the thing that'll have the biggest impact on our time to get to mass media is how many great scientists we can get between now and radio. Philosophy+Christianity adds 100% [actually, as you pointed out in a later post, in effect, 50% because we already have a 100% for being philosophical. (We can build the national epic somewhere too for another 100%)]. I'm not too worried about the likes of Monty attacking us because - umm - looking at the map, what can he possibly do to us? He'd need open borders with I think at least 3 civs just to get his galleys into our territory! Toku's more of a threat, but he's so hostile to us that he's a threat anyway.

3 turns of anarchy does seem daunting but compared to 50+ turns to research some of those techs... :mischief:

btw, just as the +100%GPP from pacifism isn't really 100%, the +10% research from free speech isn't really 10% - coz it's additive with the libraries and academy etc. Once we have universities in our science cities it'll be nearer 6-7%.

Sam_Yeager said:
By the by I notice that Toku is now second in pop and land. Just the sort of person we want as an opponent .

That would be extremely convenient.

DynamicSpirit · Jan 12, 2007

btw, sorry to nag, but I think Moscow ought to be micromanaged to build the Hagia Sophia quicker. It's still working a cottage tile when it could be working a production tile. Also, the workers there are chopping a forest to build a cottage when what we need for the time being is a workshop (that can be turned into a cottage when HS is complete...)

(EDIT: And with a workshop it could be taken off the clams for a while too - the food shortage is arguably less important than getting HS complete, as long as we don't actually empty the granary)

Dagnabit · Jan 12, 2007

DynamicSpirit said:
btw, sorry to nag, but I think Moscow ought to be micromanaged to build the Hagia Sophia quicker. It's still working a cottage tile when it could be working a production tile. Also, the workers there are chopping a forest to build a cottage when what we need for the time being is a workshop (that can be turned into a cottage when HS is complete...)

(EDIT: And with a workshop it could be taken off the clams for a while too - the food shortage is arguably less important than getting HS complete, as long as we don't actually empty the granary)

Man I have a lot of sorrys this past 24hrs :sad:

I knew we wanted a workshop but with all the cottaging we were doing I was to pre occupied with my other "difficulties" at Hanq.I thought I was working all production tiles last I looked. Can't win one :sad:

SGOTM 03 - Geezers

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