Gotm 39 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

da_Vinci said:

Which leads me to a scoring question ... is the score from pop based on raw pop you have, % of the world's pop you have, or % or some theoretical pop that you have?

The practical implication is whether one gets more points from pop by growing own pop (even if world grows too and % does not change), or from destroying pop of others (your % goes up even if your raw pop does not)?

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If I remember correct, the score you get from population is based on the relation between your pop and the "maximum" pop possible of the map (based on food resources, tile types etc). Just monitor the score value of pop by hovering above the list of leaders in the bottom right of the screen. It says (x/y) for pop, where x should increase over time as you grow your cities, while y should be constant (unless nukes can change it ).

Mine's a retired game. 1890AD, at which point I was steadily researching future techs in the hope of getting a cow. I occupied all of the starting continent, as well as most of what used to be Spain and some of France, and in a couple of wars I'd pillaged just about every tile in England and India to ensure they remained weak. My land was hovering just below the domination limit - with a couple of % leeway to ensure I didn't accidentally go over before the final planned just-before-2050AD war. All in all I think it would've gone very well - other than a little matter of real life getting in the way so I ran out of time and had to retire

Oh well, at least I can now satisfy my curiosity and come find out what on Earth these 80+ messages in this final spoiler are all about

Erkon said:

If I remember correct, the score you get from population is based on the relation between your pop and the "maximum" pop possible of the map (based on food resources, tile types etc). Just monitor the score value of pop by hovering above the list of leaders in the bottom right of the screen. It says (x/y) for pop, where x should increase over time as you grow your cities, while y should be constant (unless nukes can change it ).

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That would make sense, otherwise, why have that theoretical max on the hover.

Which means that razing cities does not help one's pop score, except that to the extent that if it ends the game sooner, it reduces the amount of decay function applied, so by that mechanism it indirectly increases pop role in final score (right?).

dV

DynamicSpirit said:

All in all I think it would've gone very well - other than a little matter of real life getting in the way so I ran out of time and had to retire

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How did you not have enough land and pop to get a dom victory any time you wanted it?

dV

Which means that razing cities does not help one's pop score

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correct

...it indirectly increases pop role in final score (right?)

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FinalScore=FinalPopScore+FinalWonderScore+FinalLandScore+FinalTechScore


FinalPopScore=Factor1*FinalPop/(MaxPop^(Finalturn/Maxturn))

FinalLandScore=Factor2*FinalLand/(MaxLand^(Finalturn/Maxturn))
and so on..



PS I'v found out shortcut for CRC formula based on Sid one:
http://forum.civru.com/index.php?action=vthread&forum=28&topic=8635
we added culture and future techs unlike original Sid finial score culculations

Gosha190 said:

FinalScore=FinalPopScore+FinalWonderScore+FinalLandScore+FinalTechScore


FinalPopScore=Factor1*FinalPop/(MaxPop^(Finalturn/Maxturn))

FinalLandScore=Factor2*FinalLand/(MaxLand^(Finalturn/Maxturn))
and so on..



PS I'v found out shortcut for CRC formula based on Sed one:
http://forum.civru.com/index.php?action=vthread&forum=28&topic=8635
we added culture and future techs unlike original Sed finial score culculations

Click to expand...

Is that correct? I'd never heard that points depended on Culture or on Future Techs.
In fact if you hover your mouse over your points only 4 factors are shown, not 6.

Could you elaborate a bit on these two terms, Future Tech and Culture?
My Russian is a bit rusty, what I could understand is:


Future Tech: Every additional Future Tech gives more points. 15 future techs is considered to be 'the maximum'. But you can have more than 15 and the more you get, the more points.
Completing every tech in the tech tree gives an amount of points. Completing 15 Future Techs (in the same time) gives double that amount! So if in doubt it is better (pointwise) to research a future tech than any other thing.


Culture:

Is that correct? I'd never heard that points depended on Culture or on Future Techs.
In fact if you hover your mouse over your points only 4 factors are shown, not 6.

Click to expand...

we added culture and future techs unlike original Sid finial score culculations

Click to expand...

I mean that we (CRC) use upgraded formular where we have 2 additional factors: future techs and culture. BUT! Our formular is based on original Sid formular where only 4 factors are used: land, pop, tech, wonders.

PS it's not subject for current topic, but if your are interested in... In CRC formular each FT gives 15 base points for culculations.

Jesusin! Sorry! I forgot some details.. Really we added Modern Tech (=15!). And each MT costs 15 points!


PS

Could you elaborate a bit on these two terms, Future Tech and Culture?

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as for culture. We use summary culture for a 3 best cities divided by 100.

Well, I never took the flipped barb cities on the other side of the glacier, as I worried about not being able to move units and didn't realize you could have trade routes across the glacier. It sounds like I could have won a lot quicker if I had. Basically, I ended up winning a culture victory (after quickly conquering Mongols and Americans) in 1899 (a long time in isolation) since I was too conservative in my analysis of the glacier issue.

This was my first GOTM, and I am very happy with the unique challenge it presented. I think I will be participating more frequently. Basically, I was searching for some good scenarios or mods to play and couldn't find any I hadn't tried (i.e. I was tired of random maps). I'm excited I found GOTM, thanks to the creator (jesusin?); your time is very much appreciated.

da_Vinci said:

How did you not have enough land and pop to get a dom victory any time you wanted it?

dV

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Ummm, yes, you're right. That occurred to me earlier today, giving me a horrible 'AAAAARRRRGH! what have I done?!?!??!??!?' moment. I was already waaaay over the dom limit for population and it would've only taken a couple of minutes to capture a suitable English or French city against my borders to go over the land limit too. I guess I was too single-mindedly bemoaning my lack of time to play out the 160 remaining milking-turns to think of it.

Mind you, I guess an 1895ishAD domination win on noble level would've felt almost as pathetic as an 1890AD retired game

DynamicSpirit said:

Mind you, I guess an 1895ishAD domination win on noble level would've felt almost as pathetic as an 1890AD retired game

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Well, with all that pop, I bet you would have gotten and extra 20 score points or so, which could be 10 to perhaps 20 levels in score global rank (if you follow those sorts of things ...

I feel your pain ... I had to end my attempt to own all cites but one island one when RL time caught up with me too.

dV

jesusin said:

Hi Cactus Pete. Thanks for your constructive approach to criticism.

You are not the only one that didn't like this map's 'surprises'.
I understand that surprise-maps shouldn't be the rule, but the exception.
I hope that the rest of the staff and I willl be able to provide maps you'll fully enjoy in the future, both 'normal' and 'surprise'.

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I actually like the fact that there was a twist to the game. Normally I'm a peacemonger and would have appreciated the fence to keep out the neighbours. Having said that I decided to play a different VC for a change and by the time I realised that there was no way to circumnavigate I lost interest in the game and didn't end up submitting.

jesusin said:

Illogical map? Unpredictable? --> Great! That's what was intended. "Expect the unexpected", remember?

Deliberately deceptive? Penalizes sound play? --> Oh, no! I don't want to trick anyone. I want medals and awards go to the best players. This is a big cause of concern for me. I'm worried. What makes you to think that?

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As I mentioned in the brainstorming thread there is a fine line between trying to maintain the interest for the veterans and alienating new players. Personally I didn't anticipate a culture flip being the ONLY way into the East.

jesusin said:

- Would you have liked the map more if there had been a hole in the sea barrier, making culture flipping innecesary for military victories?

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Perhaps a one tile island allowing passage after settling a city?

jesusin said:

- Would you have liked the map more if the sea barrier had been visible from our coast?

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That may have helped however by the time you realise that an ocean crossing is not possible (with galleons) you've already wasted a lot of time.

I can certainly understand why you wanted to offer something different with this map. IMHO adding the twist skewed the game in favour of a peacemonger strategy.