Which FfH leader would run the most/least pleasent empire to live in?

Wait, who said that they hated each other? The Sidar hate the undead, which FFH vamps aren't. And vampires just hate...?

Everyone. The Calabim are representative of the Body Sphere, and their patron deity is Aeron, God of Strength/Physical Rage. Hence they don't like those who treat others well.

I'm not sure that the Sidar hate the Calabim particularly, or that the Calabim hate the Sidar any more than they hate anyone else.

Vampires don't hate everyone. They love dwarves for instance. Especially with ketchup.

ba-da-bing!

Falamar ruled empire is fun, as OO speaker espessially, talking with overlords, drinking in inns, redistributing fresh mutated drowns, and all that with woman loving boss and fun atmosphere.

Except your body is turned into a vessel for the communication of the desires of the Overlords... I really don't think you'd be allowed much (if any) time for personal enjoyment, if your consciousness was spared at all.

Slvynn, you are aware that talking with incomprehensible Lovecraftian beings formed from the nightmares of a madman empowered by the nightmares of a comatose god who is himself being tortured by the chief servant of the god of madness... is not going to be a friendly, casual chat, right?

Don't listen to them Slvynn, sanity is overrated.

they also so ... not open-minded

Cool vampires eat souls rather than just blood. Ok, Flauros and Alexis will not run a nice place. But if I had to choose which empire to go on Erebus, hell if I was given the choice of going calabim or staying in front of my laptop, Calabim it is. Sure, I'd have to be pretty . .. .. .. .ing impressive to become a vampire and not a dinner but I say it is worth the risk. If I was consumed, my soul is gone. (It is gone, right?) So I don't exist. No chance of Hyborem personally torturing me. If I was given the gift, well read Flauros' pedia entry and you can guess what I am going to do.

And they wonder why calabim are my favorite civ ...

Kael said:

Don't listen to them Slvynn, sanity is overrated.

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Well I lost mine long time ago, I never missed it either.

I've never lost my sanity.
It's behind the sofa

i would prefer
Sheaim-awesome science, no qualms about tests
Amurites-so much magic
Luichirp-I'm a tinkerer at heart, i like inventing
Grigori-hey, I'm an atheist, and they won't burn me for that

Grigori-hey, I'm an atheist, and they won't burn me for that

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Don't be so sure. In Erebus, you can prove that gods exist, and anyone who doubts that is sure to garner cries of "witch!" everywhere. Even the Grigori aren't completely accepting....

As for me, Luichirp all the way. Dwarves = cool, and as much as I'd like tons of gold to play with, the effort to get those tons isn't worth it. Let me play with golems.

Luchirp running Empyrean would be pretty good, as you'd be able to have the golems do the physical labour and such while you live in pleasant little bright communities. Maybe the Amurites as Empyrean too, so long as the religion took some of the edge off of their ruthlessness. Plus, a Govannon-trained Chalid could hold off armies all on his own!

Elohim or Malakim. A monastic life spent in contemplation, protecting sacred places, and beating down demons with a quaterstaff would a good one. Malakim would work too because of their devotion to the god of light and openness, and I like the desert. Luchirp for the same reason as everyone else but their buildings would be a bit short for me Elves before the civil war would be interesting since they have a government that incorporates good and evil factions.

Grigori are out, because going too far in the name of agnosticism is just as bad as going too far in the name of god. They might be the religion-free libertarian utopia that teenagers who just read Atlas Shrugged think of, but this is Fall From Heaven and I like to imagine a more evil Grigori The state is a personality cult focused on Cassiel. Immigrants come in to escape their own gods or empire, but once you arrive there you're only guaranteed the right to not believe in any god- or else. You might get lucky and happen to live in one of the potemkin villages along the borders where everyone frolics around all day to convince more people to immigrate. Heros, dragonslayers, and lunnotar get massively more rations or pay than anyone else and they could probably go on a rampage in the slums and get off with a slap on the wrist. Slavery is the punishment for going to church or owning religious icons, death for preaching. This is the country that would attack the Elohim while their army is on the other side of the continent helping the Bannor attack the Ashen Veil holy city.

Even if you're lucky enough to be a noble in the Calabim you have to eat souls and participate in their evil vampire aristocracy. I'm fit enough that Clan or Doviello might work out but even so that would be brutal. Sidar sound good but I'm not ready to give up the pleasures of the flesh just yet

Trieste said:

Grigori are out, because going too far in the name of agnosticism is just as bad as going too far in the name of god. They might be the religion-free libertarian utopia that teenagers who just read Atlas Shrugged think of, but this is Fall From Heaven and I like to imagine a more evil Grigori The state is a personality cult focused on Cassiel. Immigrants come in to escape their own gods or empire, but once you arrive there you're only guaranteed the right to not believe in any god- or else. You might get lucky and happen to live in one of the potemkin villages along the borders where everyone frolics around all day to convince more people to immigrate. Heros, dragonslayers, and lunnotar get massively more rations or pay than anyone else and they could probably go on a rampage in the slums and get off with a slap on the wrist. Slavery is the punishment for going to church or owning religious icons, death for preaching. This is the country that would attack the Elohim while their army is on the other side of the continent helping the Bannor attack the Ashen Veil holy city.

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That isn't true at all. Cassiel easily could act a a god, but he refuses to. He is ideologically opposed to being worshiped and would attempt to crush any cult built up around him if anyone tried to force others to follow it. Normally though, he'd discourage such actions though his own embarrassing behavior/public drunkenness. He set up a government in such a way that he would not have the power to control it. The Grigori military consists of voluntary, part time, poorly organized militias, who aren't well payed. Cassiel idealizes the yeoman farmer, and expects most the militiamen to be self sufficient. What payment they get comes from their local governments (the government is a rather feudal system where "feudal lords" are typically average farmers with no extra personal income, and the position is not hereditary), which I suppose could favor heroes and dragonslayers, but I don't think it has to, as they would be able to keep the fortunes they find in the dragons' lairs or win their money through gambling. Luonnatar are not supported by the government at all. Cassiel does not like the Luonnatar (much less pay them anything), even though he agrees with them on a lot of things, because he thinks they are fundamentally wrong in their notion that The One would want to be worshiped. The Grigori have freedom of religion and freedom to express your religious views, so long as no one ever uses force to impose these views on others. The Luonnatar are treated no differently than the followers of any other religion. Going to church, owning icons, and preaching are mocked, but never punished (although I imagine that church leaders teaching a prosperity gospel where those who give them their tithes are supposed to get some miracles in return would be prosecuted for fraud). The Grigori don't do anything to encourage immigration, they just don't prevent anyone who wants to live under their libertarian laws to come and join. They are not an especially greedy Randian society, as Cassiel recognized that that is the worship of the evil god Mammon. I've always considered the Grigori and the Elohim to be close allies. It seems to be that Immanuel Logos must be one of Cassiel's heroes, for abandoning his goddess and devoting his life to caring for the orphans of the godswar, regardless of what religion these orphans follow. The Grigori do not go out of their way to attack anyone, but would defend themselves against any invaders. While they would be quite likely to fight defensive wars against the Bannor, the Elohim just wouldn't act in a way that would give them any reason to fight them.


The biggest failing of the Grigori is that they really aren't practical or strong enough to survive a full scale attack from almost any other civ if they get caught up in an actual war. The problem with living in Grigori lands is that they probably won't stay Grigori all that long.

One more vote here for Kuriotates. Here's the conundrum:

Would you follow Order or Cult of the Dragon?

For some reason, I feel like Einoin Logos would run the best empire. Strong enough to defend his empire, but smart enough to know when war isn't worth the trouble, and peaceful enough that he wouldn't need conscripts for a crusade. Ethne the White doesn't seem quite as good a military leader, should it come to war (as it often will in Erebus). Then again, the Sandalphon offers quite a pleasant option as well; I'm not fond of those overly driven by passions, and prefer calm, rational individuals. The Sidar might be a wee bit too calm and rational, which is why they land second to the Elohim, but I could easily make myself a life there.

DharmaMcLaren said:

Except your body is turned into a vessel for the communication of the desires of the Overlords...

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Hallowed are the Overlords!

It's not really clear exactly what entails the existance of a shade. I understand earthly pleasures are lost, but if you can still maintain a sense of self and purpose, it sounds like a perfect existance for me. Become immortal then wander the world for eternity. As technology advances, you expand your search for knowledge beyond Erebus (whether into alternate planes or into the great beyond). Even, going far beyond today's Erebus, you either evolve to god-like power, or download yourself into a computer wherein you have total control (a microverse wherein you are the god).

The problem is whether you can stomach it, whether a born mortal is (or can be made to be) cut out for an immortal existence. There's a possibility that your memory is simply too limited, and after a couple centuries you forget who you even are, spawning an unending cycle (if I can refer to that show in a philosophical example, see the Brunnen-G of the Lexx series). There's also the risk that an immortal - or immortal society - has no need for advancement or growth.

Failing the Sidar being 'my kind of immortality', I'd settle for the life of a Luichirp.