ALC Game 30: Germany/Bismarck

Mansa is not talking because I agreed to stop trading with him. I believe it was in round 5, but whenever it was it was a hella long time ago and it's getting annoying now.

Mansa is Stalin's vassal. So I will be declaring war on both of them at the same time. I think I'll hit Mansa first and wipe him out so that Stalin is more likely to capitulate. How does that sound?
 
Mansa is not talking because I agreed to stop trading with him. I believe it was in round 5, but whenever it was it was a hella long time ago and it's getting annoying now.

Mansa is Stalin's vassal. So I will be declaring war on both of them at the same time. I think I'll hit Mansa first and wipe him out so that Stalin is more likely to capitulate. How does that sound?

A pity, you could use emancipation now. I did advocate going for Stalin and Musa last round but now I'm not so sure. Once you have bombers you can hit Shaka with them (he's dropped to pleased btw) but its not so easy getting them to the other continent. The questions right now are: 1) how much more tech will you need before you can go over to all production, and 2) how long will that take as well as building the army?

I would ignore Wang, its probably to your advantage that he and the others are keeping each other distracted and it'll be a while yet before he can threaten any kind of win.

Do you need to have all your EPs going to Shaka?
 
Mansa is not talking because I agreed to stop trading with him. I believe it was in round 5, but whenever it was it was a hella long time ago and it's getting annoying now.

Mansa is Stalin's vassal. So I will be declaring war on both of them at the same time. I think I'll hit Mansa first and wipe him out so that Stalin is more likely to capitulate. How does that sound?

I can see clearly now . . .
Missed that, sorry for the misdirection.

Is capitulation the goal?
 
Subscribed.
 
Wait... there's a thread tools dropdown??

EDIT: Oh, wait, you mean that thing up the top?
 
Round 8: 1816 AD to 1909 AD (51 turns)

Spoiler :
We left off debating between declaring war on Shaka or Wang and company. I decided that Shaka was the biggest threat to me. He had a lot of land and was pretty quickly catching up in tech. I was worried that if I left him untouched he would get too big too handle and given the massive number of units he builds I was worried there wouldn't be any way to stop him. We'll see that this might not have been the best decision, but it is what it is.

With the goal of taking down Shaka in mind I teched towards tanks and bombers. Given my poor early game set-up I found myself with no good way to research except for building research, which admittedly isn't bad.

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I had some cities start on a navy. Transports would be vital given that every potential target was on a different landmass. Destroyers would serve as transport defenders and bombarders of coastal city's defenses. Everything was going swimmingly until Emancipation became the civic of choice around the globe.

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Given my shortage of resources I was having serious problems. My cities were starving and becoming increasingly annoyed with me. The capital was having an especially rough time of it.

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I really had no choice.

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But there's some good news too.

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With Industrialism in I started on building some battleships to accompany the destroyers. There's been discussions about what combination of these two ships is best. Destroyers are cheaper, but battleships are stronger. I tend to just build them in a one to one ratio. Seems to work fine. I could also build panzers, he added as an afterthought.

And here's the navy at that point in the game.

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I need some land units to help out, but I also want to get some bombers. So I found this happy median.

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This would allow me to keep my slider at 100% while also building panzers at a reasonable rate.

Shaka was still at war with Wang Kong.

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For some reason, I thought it would be a good idea to declare war on Shaka with my too small force. I think my logic was that Wang will have done some damage to Shaka. Note to self: in a battle between Wang and Shaka, Wang will not do any damage to Shaka.

In a move I'd regret. I went to visit Shaka.

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I landed my tanks, since they do a pretty decent job attacking from land, but not amphibiously.

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At home, I used my great generals to build Military Academies. One medic is enough and I don't like settling.

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Some people really like to settle their general for the extra XP. But I'd much rather have 3 5/10 tanks than 2 7/10 tanks. That's especially true when my tanks were all attacking at 99% odds and I needed more tanks, not stronger ones.

Golly gee! He has a lot of units.

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I'm hovering over the northern stack, but the stack due west of my beachhead is nearly as menacing.

Agggh, too many units.

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My token force was just not going to cut the mustard.

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Ridiculous. Okay, let's try this again. Bombers will help.

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Units for the win!

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That's more like it.

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Bombers are awesome and I've got more tanks on the way.

It appears Wang is going for culture. I'll have to pay him a visit sometime soon.

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The war against Shaka was going great. His stacks were gone and he had nothing but city defenders left. I'd captured four coastal cities and was going to get three more, one of them the capital, on the next turn. I was in a pretty good mood at the beginning of the turn. Wang had turned off his slider and I was first to Mass Media, allowing me to build a 7 turn UN.

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But there's some really bad news. Sigh.

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Well baste me with sauce and serve me with mashed potatoes. It appears it's going to be me versus the world. A quick look at the turn before autosave shows that Shaka was not willing to capitulate and Wang could not be bribed to peace. Why the heck Shaka would cap to Wang is beyond me. But now I've got some problems.

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He's more advanced than I am, but not that more advanced. And I'm smarter and I build enough units.

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to my

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On the downside it looks like I'll be fighting the rest of this game at tech parity.

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So this game is turning out to be rather difficult. The plan is to put some infantry in my Zulu cities as defenders and then amass tanks and some carriers loaded with fighters and go raise Nampo and then see if I can't take the rest of Wang's cities.

This could definitely be a loss. We'll find out soon enough.
 
It's great to see this series back in action. A couple of thoughts:

Why build the UN? It looks like Korea will easily take control of it, possibly with the ability to win a diplomatic victory. From the screenshot it looks like he has 77% of the vote, although that will fall as you quickly capture Shaka's decimated cities.

The vassal/tech-sharing mechanics make the Internet look like a good bet.
 
This is the first time I've looked at this thread, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

1.) Turn down your research slider and crank up the culture. Take the time to build some happiness buildings in your cities, including Hollywood, as you've teched MM (which, imo, was a mistake).

2.) This game is winnable. Personally, I'd give up any hopes of getting the internet, as Wang already has plastics. First of all, forget that city you just captured. Load your units back onto the transports, ferry them over to Wang's already legendary city and raze it without head to losses. While you're doing this, you need to research what are arguably the two best techs for launching an intercontinental invasion-- rocketry and fision. Two nukes will easy obliterate a stack of 60+ units more effectively than 30 panzers and 10 bombers will. So in case you missed it, let me restate it; what you should do, like right now, is to tech rocketry and fission, like right now, and build the MP, like right now. Once you've done this, proceed to build as many tactical nukes as you can (about 20 or so will suffice). Load them onto some submarines, and proceed to go on a nuke and raze spree on Wang's coastal cities. Not only will this cripple him, but it will probably cause a few of his vassals to renounce his protection.

3.) On second thought, you might not win this game. You shouldn't have built the U.N. Wang will almost assuredly control it, and seeing as how he's vassalized everyone else, he'll more than likely win a Diplomatic victory if it comes up for a vote.
 
Why build the UN? It looks like Korea will easily take control of it, possibly with the ability to win a diplomatic victory. From the screenshot it looks like he has 77% of the vote, although that will fall as you quickly capture Shaka's decimated cities.

That's a good point. Building the UN doesn't really do me any good, so I guess I won't be building it.

The vassal/tech-sharing mechanics make the Internet look like a good bet.

I'm not so sure about this. There doesn't seem to be any indication that Wang is sharing his techs. Does a master always do this? Or is it a sometime thing?

1.) Turn down your research slider and crank up the culture. Take the time to build some happiness buildings in your cities, including Hollywood, as you've teched MM (which, imo, was a mistake).

Building Hollywood is a good idea. You're right in saying that I might as well. You're also right that teching MM was a mistake. :(.

2.) This game is winnable. Personally, I'd give up any hopes of getting the internet, as Wang already has plastics. First of all, forget that city you just captured. Load your units back onto the transports, ferry them over to Wang's already legendary city and raze it without head to losses. While you're doing this, you need to research what are arguably the two best techs for launching an intercontinental invasion-- rocketry and fision. Two nukes will easy obliterate a stack of 60+ units more effectively than 30 panzers and 10 bombers will. So in case you missed it, let me restate it; what you should do, like right now, is to tech rocketry and fission, like right now, and build the MP, like right now. Once you've done this, proceed to build as many tactical nukes as you can (about 20 or so will suffice). Load them onto some submarines, and proceed to go on a nuke and raze spree on Wang's coastal cities. Not only will this cripple him, but it will probably cause a few of his vassals to renounce his protection.

Should I prioritize nukes over culture? I can only have one slider all the way on. It sounds like you'd prefer I build nukes. I'm hesitant to do this just because it's what I did last time and giving modern warfare a try might be fun to try. But Wang is getting uncomfortably close to winning, so maybe this isn't the time to be inefficient. Also, is there anyway to tell what his fourth and fifth culture cities might be? I'm worried that razing the capital might not slow him down that much as his other cities might be close to becoming legendary also.

3.) On second thought, you might not win this game. You shouldn't have built the U.N. Wang will almost assuredly control it, and seeing as how he's vassalized everyone else, he'll more than likely win a Diplomatic victory if it comes up for a vote.

I haven't built it yet. And I won't be. Good catch.
 
The Panzer wonder in this case is definitely a better build than the UN. :lol:

Good luck. Good to see this going again.
 
Let's see, vassals here, vassals there, Wang's even got vassals in his underwear. Does he have some kind of special vassal potion or something? Why did Shaka join that group, did you have a large power advantage? Yeah, you said it is beyond you too, I'm just wondering.

It looked tricky to me after the last round and it still looks tricky to me after this round. Of course if you raze one of his cultural cities you will immediately see how much culture the next city in line has produced. Personally I don't know another way to find out about the 4th and 5th cities. Anybody?

Is domination the only VC option you have? If you seriously damage Wang, stir the vassal soup, then it may be possible to go Space, if you so desire. Seems unlikely though, all that teching and building. Post the power chart and a couple maps (Shakaland for example) to shed some more light on the subject.

If Wang is dedicated to Culture, does that mean he won't pursue Space? That could be a good thing. If you do enough damage to Wang to prevent a Cultural victory and cause him to lose his vassals then you are in a pretty strong position. Without looking at the save (can't) it seems he's your only real threat. Am I right about that? If Wang then has to start on a new VC you have bought a lot of time.
 
Good job on the war with shaka, he had alot of units in my game too, wiped my first stack out.
You could tech to nukes and use them on wang to stop the culture win, or will that be too late considering that you have to build MP?
 
Round 9: 1909 AD to 1920 AD (11 turns)

Spoiler :
There seemed to me to be two options. The first, and probably more prudent one, would have been to load up my ships and gone straight for Seoul. The main reason for doing this was that Wang was the last threat to win the game. If I was able to eliminate his main culture cities I would probably have been able to win without much in my way. On the other hand, I'd just spend a long time preparing for a war with Shaka and destroying his stacks and that war was nearing completion. Declaring on Shaka was enticing. The downside of this is that I leave Wang more or less alone for a few more turns. I was hoping that just the act of declaring on him would slow him down a little bit either way. In the end I decided to finish what I started and hope I could get over to Korea in time.

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The first few turns I was plagued by destroyers from both Wang and Shaka, but my navy was quite sizable and I held them all off without too many losses. Remember that battleships cause collateral dammage, so I was able to hit their "stacks" of ships with a battleship or two and then sink the rest without fear of losses.

After the initial onslaught on sea, the war continued much as I hoped it would. I split my army into three main stacks. One went north to take out the top half of Zululand, one went southwest to take out the cities down there. And another army was landed in the former Ethiopia and took those cities.

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The thickness of the lines is supposed to represent the size of the army that would go along the path including the reinforcements that would trickle in.

The things that helped a lot with this war were.
  • Bombers removing all defenses before my armies arrived.
  • Bombers taking all defenders down to half strength making incredibly easy work for my panzers.
  • Bombers doing their thing and in so doing keeping the entire continent in my line of sight so I always knew exactly where all of Shaka's units were.
  • Panzers getting two attacks per turn. Be careful that you move to within one tile of a city you hope to attack because otherwise, moving counts as one of the panzer's moves and it then gets only one attack.
To execute late game wars successfully takes a lot of micro. More than I care for, anyway. When TMIT does these late game wars he's usually done a better job in the first 5500 years allowing him to build tanks at a rate that allows him to be as careless as he wants. I was trying to be a little bit more careful and not lose any units unnecessarily. This wasn't too hard to do, but it did take a while. Anyway, 9 turns after re-declaring and 4 turns after that last screenshot here's what happened.

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Careful planning and distribution of troops allowed me to capture 6 cities on the last turn of the war. Even if I lose this game, that war was well executed enough that I'll at least have something to feel good about. We now have 34 cities to Wang's 14, Stalin's 7, and Mansa's 4.

Here's some important screenshots:

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We have a great deal of completely improved land. Unfortunately, most of it is under revolt and will take a while to become useful. But at least we have it, right? :mwaha:. Even with border pops I don't think it will be enough for a Domination win, so we'll have to pay the other continent a visit.

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Wang is getting scarily close to culture. I may have just made a serious mistake dilly dallying with Shaka, but I had a good time. So it's all good. :rolleyes:.

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The map is at least a few decades out of date. I expect it looks pretty much the same except that some more of Mansa's and Stalin's land belongs to Wang.

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I'm officially the tech loser. Luckily, the other guys don't have too much on me except SAM infantry. Those will be annoying, but not game changing. As long as they don't get to jet fighters I should be able to outmaneuver any terrible situations.

Actually, not only am I the tech loser, I'm the everything loser.

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Look at the GNP ... recession much? :crazyeye:.

Unfortunately, Wang will not go for a cease fire. He will declare peace for 180 gold, but I don't have ten turns to spare (or do I? What do you guys think?). Either way, my entire army is located on Shaka's continent, so attacking from the east seems the best, and quickest, course of action.

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I'm undecided how best to invade the continent. Bombers from my island can reach both of the two eastern coastal cities, but none of the others. I'd really like to have bomber support on the capital and other inland cities. But I think it might be really hard to get a foothold on the continent. As I see it, I'll need a bunch of fighter support and marines to help with the invasion of the continent and holding of those two coastal cities if I choose to go that way.

This game is looking to be a close finish, so I'm a little worried. Any advice or words of comfort you have to offer are appreciated.
 
I still can't get over that 1909AD Military Advisor screen that shows you with 8 carriers and 2 fighters! :lol: If you're going to use flight (and I usually do), you should build blimps at physics, then upgrade them to fighters at Flight while building carriers. If you'd had fighter support on the first attack on Shaka it would have gone a lot better.
 
If Wang is dedicated to Culture, does that mean he won't pursue Space? That could be a good thing. If you do enough damage to Wang to prevent a Cultural victory and cause him to lose his vassals then you are in a pretty strong position. Without looking at the save (can't) it seems he's your only real threat. Am I right about that? If Wang then has to start on a new VC you have bought a lot of time.

It's been said that the AIs just sort of stumble upon a victory condition and aren't very good at pursuing one the way a human player is. That being said, some of the AIs are alright at late game going for culture. It does indeed seem that Wang has completely turned off his research slider and is trying to get to culture as quickly as his inferior AI strategy will let him. Unfortunately, he's probably going to win, :(.

You are right about Wang being my only threat. If I can take him out the other two AIs are too small to any real threat to my military. Taking him out his going to be a real pain though.

I still can't get over that 1909AD Military Advisor screen that shows you with 8 carriers and 2 fighters! :lol: If you're going to use flight (and I usually do), you should build blimps at physics, then upgrade them to fighters at Flight while building carriers. If you'd had fighter support on the first attack on Shaka it would have gone a lot better.

This strategy of pre-building units for the sole purpose of upgrading is something I definitely don't do enough of. It certainly would have made the initial attack a lot easier. Shame I didn't think of it. The situation is a little better now as I have 6 carriers and soon to be 18 fighters. More of both are on the way. Along with marines, more tanks, and more destroyers. Aggh, so much to build so few cities to do it with.
 
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