Murky
Deity
It looks like you are in a good position to start settling more lands. You have more than adequate production and space to settle on. I look forward to seeing how the early game plays out.
The Emperor Masters' Challenge
- Thread starter aelf
- Start date
Gnarfflinger
Wiseguy in Training
I would settle, but don't dawdle getting CoL--you'll need the courthouses.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Count me in for settling as well. I think war against the AI at this point would be premature, with only two cities available to produce units, and one of them not in a stellar production location. Found at least two more cities if not more--to the west and, if possible, the south. You can settle the northeast peninsula at your leisure (more or less; the AI will eventually send a Galley up there, so don't wait too long).
By delaying a war on Kublai, you are indeed making Catapults essential. But that fits with the expansion plans.
I do think you'll need Skirmishers for fog-busting and barb defense VERY soon. Put some Axes out there too, so they get some free XPs. Keep scouting and be on the lookout for a barb city.
I think after Alphabet, you'll need to make Mathematics, Construction, and Code of Laws your research priorities, assuming you plan on attacking Kublai, which I think is a very good idea. In my experience, even on Prince, he'll come after you the moment he determines he has an advantage, and ditto with the Little Corporal. So I think once your initial settling is done and you have the necessary techs, you'd be wise to initiate two wars subsequent of conquest. You may even want to alternate attacking one, then the other, offering peace for techs and gold as you switch.
By delaying a war on Kublai, you are indeed making Catapults essential. But that fits with the expansion plans.
I do think you'll need Skirmishers for fog-busting and barb defense VERY soon. Put some Axes out there too, so they get some free XPs. Keep scouting and be on the lookout for a barb city.
I think after Alphabet, you'll need to make Mathematics, Construction, and Code of Laws your research priorities, assuming you plan on attacking Kublai, which I think is a very good idea. In my experience, even on Prince, he'll come after you the moment he determines he has an advantage, and ditto with the Little Corporal. So I think once your initial settling is done and you have the necessary techs, you'd be wise to initiate two wars subsequent of conquest. You may even want to alternate attacking one, then the other, offering peace for techs and gold as you switch.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Looks like northeast hillfishingcity is next objective (presumably get Timbuktu up to 5 then a few units before settler). Had a quick look at the map, while there's a hunk of unclaimed territory at present not much of it is resource rich. Dotmapping exercise might be worth doing.
Tech trading after alphabet should be illuminating. Maybe Kublai settled city missing horses and stone because it hooks up iron; worth checking out.
Tech trading after alphabet should be illuminating. Maybe Kublai settled city missing horses and stone because it hooks up iron; worth checking out.
aelf
Ashen One
Well, I've played the next round. I must say it's good progress, although of course some things will be up for criticism. That's alright. Keep it coming. I am sure we are all looking to learn and improve from this thread.
I am going to post the update now.
I am going to post the update now.
Zombie69
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 1,902
Sorry for jumping in late, but here are my two cents :
- i've played Mansa Musa often in the past, and have come to the conclusion that even with Skirmishers, archery is best left completely ignored
- with this starting location, working the two gold mines should have been the highest priority
- animal husbandry was a higher priority than pottery; sheep and cow are better than flood plains
- pottery is still a high priority because granaries improve pop rushing
- i've played Mansa Musa often in the past, and have come to the conclusion that even with Skirmishers, archery is best left completely ignored
- with this starting location, working the two gold mines should have been the highest priority
- animal husbandry was a higher priority than pottery; sheep and cow are better than flood plains
- pottery is still a high priority because granaries improve pop rushing
Zombie69 said:
Agree on all points, as stated before.
I think one of the causings of some tension in the Emperor thread is that Emperor players dont see room for 'mistakes'. One mistake can lose you the game. Much more then when playing the lower levels. So people find it much harder to deal with other (in their eyes) sub optimal decisions.
The path taken is certainly not mine, but i hope i can learn from other paths which i wouldn't take, maybe just to see if my path was right... I am interested in the progress, altough i would have done things differently.
Dont take into account critism to badly, you are doing a nice try in a very difficult thread with lots of skilled (and therefore) critical players.
Awaiting the new turns...
aelf
Ashen One
Round 3: 1570BC – 1000BC
More strange people appeared near our ancestors’ lands. The French, they were called. The earliest evidence of contact with them that we have today is a stone hatchet, found in an ancient burial site near Timbuktu. It resembles one found near Paris, both of an early design thought to be French. Scholars believe this artefact dates back to 2400 BC. No record survives to tell us more.
There is an ancient Malinese tale about Ngosi, a little boy who ran away from his family. He was chased by a pair of fearsome panthers in the southern jungles and ran until he reached Mongolia, the first to behold that foreign land. There, he was greeted by the Khan himself, and was bedecked with jewels from the court. The next day however, he was thrown into the dungeons, where his little finger was cut off. On the following day, he was released and escorted to the jungles, where the Khan told him to return home. His finger was sent to the Malinese chief as a gift, adorned by a golden ring made in Beshebalik.
The origin and purpose of this tale are lost, but it tells us that some of our ancestors travelled through the jungles to Mongolia, and might even have reached France. Timbuktu was becoming a real city, having contacts with neighbouring civilizations, and the centre of its part of the continent.
In time, our ancestors learned to tame and domesticate animals, write and make good bows. And as the people of Timbuktu grew more numerous, more of them moved toward the sea to live. The city of Djenne was the result of the gathering of these migrants. Upon learning the existence of the town, the chief of Timbuktu sent his messengers and inquired as to the loyalty of the settlers. The migrants confirmed their loyalty to the chief, and thereupon the younger brother of the chief was sent to govern the city of Djenne in the name of the great Malinese tribe.
I really am not following the 10-turn rule at all
But it’s all in the name of progress. Debating forever will not cause the game to move forward.
Anyway, the decision was made to settle. Timbuktu started on a granary, which would be whipped for 1 pop, while Djenne continued on the library for border expansion and for future benefits. The second worker started chopping to help with the library.
The exploring warrior found Napoleon's wherabouts.
Still distant from us. Looks like we definitely have to worry about Kublai first.
After whipping the granary for 1 pop, Timbuktu started on a Skirmisher to guard against barbs.
Unfortunately, barbs appeared on the next turn from two directions. I whipped the Skirmisher, sacrificed a warrior to prevent a barb archer from pillaging the sheep, and used the whipped Skirmisher to kill the victorious barb archer on the next turn. The second Skirmisher was built in 1 turn and killed a barb warrior before it could get onto the SE gold hill. Skirmisher no.1 attacked and defeated another barb archer that stepped onto the sheep tile one turn after the first. The odds, with about 90HP and Drill I was an admirable 80% or so. Victorious, Skirmisher no.1 could earn the Drill II promotion. Yay!
The exploring warrior found more interesting info:
Looks like Napoleon and Kublai will be experiencing some border tension rather quickly. Unfortunately, they are both Buddhists so it might not help much. And evidently Kublai had teched to Keshiks. We will be needing spears in the future. Speaking of exploration, by the way, I forgot to mention that my woodsman had died in the previous round running into an archer. The jungle he was defending on didn't save him
After the second Skirmisher, Timbuktu started on barracks to let it grow before starting on a settler. It hit the happiness cap at size 3, though, since I had to whip twice in succession, and I switched the build to settler. Chopped one forest to help with the settler. At Djenne, meanwhile, the worker had chopped one forest for the library. The city was at size 2 and needed 2 pop to rush it, so I moved the worker to the next forest to chop another time.
Tech-wise, I finished researching Alphabet and opened up the trading screen. This is what it looked like:
The Khan wouldn't trade Masonry. Trying for Pyramids, eh? If he gets it, it would be good for us
I could only trade Writing to both of them, so I decided to go for the best trade that could be offered:
We need Fishing to build a workboat at Djenne. Can't get Masonry together with it, so I settled for Mysticism. We probably have to wait till Kublai gets his Pyramid or fails at it before we can trade Writing (if he hasn't researched it himself) for Masonry.
After the tech trade with Napoleon, this is what the trading screen looks like:
They seem to be quite advanced. At Emperor, I'm not surprised, especially given the fact that Kublai has at least one gold mine (seen at Beshebalik). Napoleon probably has gold/silver/gems as well.
This is pretty much where the round ended. A view of the two cities:
A map of the known world at this point:
1 unhappiness from whipping had worn off in Timbuktu, and I will probably switch back to barracks to let the city grow. Once that is completed, I'll whip the settler out. Prime candidates for settling: the spice and silk city to the south just to claim that spot first (but we don't have IW yet and Calendar is still quite far off) OR the seafood and sheep city to the NE (a very good spot).
After the second forest was chopped on the turn I stopped, Djenne could rush the library for 1 pop. I did so. Next build would probably be a workboat. Should we start cottaging the flood plains in its fat cross?
Another thing is research. I am not sure what to research now so I just clicked on Drama to get rid of the pop up asking me what to research next. I don't think Drama is the ideal tech for now. Should we go for Mathematics even though the AIs will probably get it soon? How about IW(which the AIs have)? Sailing for lighthouse in Djenne (which I think is not urgently needed)? Need your opinions on this.
At this point, do we urgently need to explore more of the continent? The second exploring warrior had died to another barb archer. Still no view of either AI's capitals. If we do, I think the best we could do is build another Skirmisher in Timbuktu after the settler to fortify at Djenne (Skirmisher no.1 is in Timbuktu while no.2 is fogbusting in the NE) and send the last warrior out to explore.
I am going to make a dotmap of the possible city sites around the area. Like one or two of you mentioned, resources seem quite scarce. Actually, they are scarce in that they are concentrated in small areas, leaving empty plots about. It will be quite a challenge to dotmap.
Edit: Forgot the save again.
More strange people appeared near our ancestors’ lands. The French, they were called. The earliest evidence of contact with them that we have today is a stone hatchet, found in an ancient burial site near Timbuktu. It resembles one found near Paris, both of an early design thought to be French. Scholars believe this artefact dates back to 2400 BC. No record survives to tell us more.
There is an ancient Malinese tale about Ngosi, a little boy who ran away from his family. He was chased by a pair of fearsome panthers in the southern jungles and ran until he reached Mongolia, the first to behold that foreign land. There, he was greeted by the Khan himself, and was bedecked with jewels from the court. The next day however, he was thrown into the dungeons, where his little finger was cut off. On the following day, he was released and escorted to the jungles, where the Khan told him to return home. His finger was sent to the Malinese chief as a gift, adorned by a golden ring made in Beshebalik.
The origin and purpose of this tale are lost, but it tells us that some of our ancestors travelled through the jungles to Mongolia, and might even have reached France. Timbuktu was becoming a real city, having contacts with neighbouring civilizations, and the centre of its part of the continent.
In time, our ancestors learned to tame and domesticate animals, write and make good bows. And as the people of Timbuktu grew more numerous, more of them moved toward the sea to live. The city of Djenne was the result of the gathering of these migrants. Upon learning the existence of the town, the chief of Timbuktu sent his messengers and inquired as to the loyalty of the settlers. The migrants confirmed their loyalty to the chief, and thereupon the younger brother of the chief was sent to govern the city of Djenne in the name of the great Malinese tribe.
I really am not following the 10-turn rule at all
But it’s all in the name of progress. Debating forever will not cause the game to move forward.Anyway, the decision was made to settle. Timbuktu started on a granary, which would be whipped for 1 pop, while Djenne continued on the library for border expansion and for future benefits. The second worker started chopping to help with the library.
The exploring warrior found Napoleon's wherabouts.
Still distant from us. Looks like we definitely have to worry about Kublai first.
After whipping the granary for 1 pop, Timbuktu started on a Skirmisher to guard against barbs.
Unfortunately, barbs appeared on the next turn from two directions. I whipped the Skirmisher, sacrificed a warrior to prevent a barb archer from pillaging the sheep, and used the whipped Skirmisher to kill the victorious barb archer on the next turn. The second Skirmisher was built in 1 turn and killed a barb warrior before it could get onto the SE gold hill. Skirmisher no.1 attacked and defeated another barb archer that stepped onto the sheep tile one turn after the first. The odds, with about 90HP and Drill I was an admirable 80% or so. Victorious, Skirmisher no.1 could earn the Drill II promotion. Yay!
The exploring warrior found more interesting info:
Looks like Napoleon and Kublai will be experiencing some border tension rather quickly. Unfortunately, they are both Buddhists so it might not help much. And evidently Kublai had teched to Keshiks. We will be needing spears in the future. Speaking of exploration, by the way, I forgot to mention that my woodsman had died in the previous round running into an archer. The jungle he was defending on didn't save him
After the second Skirmisher, Timbuktu started on barracks to let it grow before starting on a settler. It hit the happiness cap at size 3, though, since I had to whip twice in succession, and I switched the build to settler. Chopped one forest to help with the settler. At Djenne, meanwhile, the worker had chopped one forest for the library. The city was at size 2 and needed 2 pop to rush it, so I moved the worker to the next forest to chop another time.
Tech-wise, I finished researching Alphabet and opened up the trading screen. This is what it looked like:
The Khan wouldn't trade Masonry. Trying for Pyramids, eh? If he gets it, it would be good for us
I could only trade Writing to both of them, so I decided to go for the best trade that could be offered:
We need Fishing to build a workboat at Djenne. Can't get Masonry together with it, so I settled for Mysticism. We probably have to wait till Kublai gets his Pyramid or fails at it before we can trade Writing (if he hasn't researched it himself) for Masonry.
After the tech trade with Napoleon, this is what the trading screen looks like:
They seem to be quite advanced. At Emperor, I'm not surprised, especially given the fact that Kublai has at least one gold mine (seen at Beshebalik). Napoleon probably has gold/silver/gems as well.
This is pretty much where the round ended. A view of the two cities:
A map of the known world at this point:
1 unhappiness from whipping had worn off in Timbuktu, and I will probably switch back to barracks to let the city grow. Once that is completed, I'll whip the settler out. Prime candidates for settling: the spice and silk city to the south just to claim that spot first (but we don't have IW yet and Calendar is still quite far off) OR the seafood and sheep city to the NE (a very good spot).
After the second forest was chopped on the turn I stopped, Djenne could rush the library for 1 pop. I did so. Next build would probably be a workboat. Should we start cottaging the flood plains in its fat cross?
Another thing is research. I am not sure what to research now so I just clicked on Drama to get rid of the pop up asking me what to research next. I don't think Drama is the ideal tech for now. Should we go for Mathematics even though the AIs will probably get it soon? How about IW(which the AIs have)? Sailing for lighthouse in Djenne (which I think is not urgently needed)? Need your opinions on this.
At this point, do we urgently need to explore more of the continent? The second exploring warrior had died to another barb archer. Still no view of either AI's capitals. If we do, I think the best we could do is build another Skirmisher in Timbuktu after the settler to fortify at Djenne (Skirmisher no.1 is in Timbuktu while no.2 is fogbusting in the NE) and send the last warrior out to explore.
I am going to make a dotmap of the possible city sites around the area. Like one or two of you mentioned, resources seem quite scarce. Actually, they are scarce in that they are concentrated in small areas, leaving empty plots about. It will be quite a challenge to dotmap.
Edit: Forgot the save again.
aelf
Ashen One
Zombie69 said:
I'm sorry. I don't really like to work with numbers so I don't usually look closely. Part of what I learn from this thread is to be more conscientious when it comes to them. And there are some things that I just haven't come across, like settling in a jungle area before I have IW. I like the exchange of views and opinions on this forum so I frequent it, but after all I'm still a casual player and have other things to do. When I am spending time on Civ 4, I'm usually either playing normally or posting. I haven't checked out every single detail of the game.
However, I am good enough now to be winning Emperor regularly, so I don't think my skills are so lacking as to warrant people unsubscribing. It seems rather petty to do so. But you are free to do so if you really wish to. Everyone has the right to come and go.
How about trading for some religious techs doesn't look like Khan has any maybe you could use those techs to trade with khan, if you get Poly (tech) you can research Literature and aim for a possible Great Library... It's worth a try....
If you can't get Poly, But you can get Meditation, you should beeline for Codes of law Via Preisthood, You bound to need it sooner or later after conqouring khan's lands.
If I'm playing peacefully I usually go thru Drama to attempt to get music 1st and cuture bomb a nearby culture poor AI city, I guess you could use the Great Artist on a recently captured AI city to dissolve the AI Citizen risistence Qucikly... (eg- khan's capital)
Personally I'd try for Codes of Law Beeline
If you can't get Poly, But you can get Meditation, you should beeline for Codes of law Via Preisthood, You bound to need it sooner or later after conqouring khan's lands.
If I'm playing peacefully I usually go thru Drama to attempt to get music 1st and cuture bomb a nearby culture poor AI city, I guess you could use the Great Artist on a recently captured AI city to dissolve the AI Citizen risistence Qucikly... (eg- khan's capital)
Personally I'd try for Codes of Law Beeline
aelf
Ashen One
Zombie69 said:
If I did trade for Masonry with Napoleon, I don't think I will be able to get both Myticism and Fishing from Kublai. Masonry is not necessary for now. Mysticism opens up more possibilities, and I was looking to see if Mysticism allowed me to trade for Meditation with Kublai. I should have explained this earlier.
I value your experience and advice, but it looks like you are making a threat with the word 'unsubsribe' now. If in any way you took offense, I would explain that I was merely pointing out the fact that you, like anyone, have the freedom to pull out (which is my interpretation of unsubscribe). However, threats (veiled or not) don't help with anything.
Zombie69 said:
Aelf Probly didn't want to trade with khan cuz he's gonna War with him soon becuase he's keeping a Tech Advantage which is in his favour. He doesn't need Mansonary anywayz, he doesnt have any marble or stone too hook up it's a useless tech to him & its way too late to build the piramids.
Napoleon can't trade with khan cuase Aelf only traded writing to him, and AIs generally go for Mathmatics and they almost totally ignore the Alphebet route at this point in time.
aelf
Ashen One
kniteowl said:
I would assume he knows this. But on second thoughts, if he didn't forget, why the vehemence then?
Zombie69
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 1,902
kniteowl said:
How would giving Khan writing make him anymore fearsome an opponent? It's not close to any military tech. Trade as much as you can with him, then kill him when he doesn't have anything to give anymore.
kniteowl said:
Good point. I've been playing with "no tech trading" for too long now, i'm a bit rusty there. So you're right, trading asap wasn't a priority. He can do so later on, like right before declaring war on him.
Trading is one of the most important things (at emperor). I must say i am rather suprised that it seems they both have Alphabet. I usualy have alphabet first, since AI dont realy bother for the tech. There is a lot of discussion about trading alphabet away (opening trade for the opposing civs), but i always trade away to gain as muchs techs as possible. Clever trading in 2 turns (for opening new techs) is very important. I always look to see which most valuable tech i can get first.
Seeing the tech power of the AI and the (lack) of army from our side (no axes yet
), i am starting to get worried...
Edit: my mistake, they cant have alphabet since they dont have writing. Relieve from my side. My advice, trade away Alphabet when traded writing.
Seeing the tech power of the AI and the (lack) of army from our side (no axes yet
), i am starting to get worried...Edit: my mistake, they cant have alphabet since they dont have writing. Relieve from my side. My advice, trade away Alphabet when traded writing.
Zombie69
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 1,902
aelf said:
Lol, certainly not a threat! In order to be a threat, it would have to be something bad for you. You probably couldn't care less if i follow your thread or not. I was just trying to give an honest response to your "you can unsubscribe" statement.
Moving on, i don't mean to threadjack.
aelf
Ashen One
Erm, the confusion over tech trading seems to be generating rather harmful effects.
I am glad it's not. I do care if people follow the thread. If they don't it would be a failure and a disgrace for me. And seeing people say they are pulling out is certainly unpleasant at best. However, this forum pretty much runs Free Speech and Emancipation so I couldn't and wouldn't stop anyone.
I am glad it's not. I do care if people follow the thread. If they don't it would be a failure and a disgrace for me. And seeing people say they are pulling out is certainly unpleasant at best. However, this forum pretty much runs Free Speech and Emancipation so I couldn't and wouldn't stop anyone.
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