C3C Redux: Six months with no patch.

Oh well......

I would prefer a new SMAC, but Firaxis decided that SMAC didn't existed ( when they asked for beta testers a few weeks ago they had forgot to put it in the games where to choose from as you favourite Sid Meier's game.... and SMAC was a flag game of Firaxis in his days :( ). Will give a look...

This is good news for the patch... atleast they are still doing something related with Civ IV ( maybe this was a side product of the patching process ;) )
 
i read thru this and i am not exactly sure what the specific complaint is.
Don't use Bruhaha's patch, and play the hell out of this game without any problems. Are we looking for perfection or just something to keep the "i want more" bug alive?
 
No they want a patch to make the game official. Using the Bruhaha's patch is the same as playin Civ3 with your own unofficial adjustments to erase all ailments from lower cor rates to over-arty and army dependence.
In the end, no matter how better the mod version is, some just don't like the feeling of not playin the accepted defualt version.
How do you compare scores for instance?
 
Well there you go. The reason we haven't gotten a patch is because they've been using the Civ 4 engine to make a new colonization game!

Makes sense; the last Vanilla and Warlords patches came out around the time BtS was released, so we might get a new BtS patch when C4C is released.
 
Oh well......

I would prefer a new SMAC, but Firaxis decided that SMAC didn't existed ( when they asked for beta testers a few weeks ago they had forgot to put it in the games where to choose from as you favourite Sid Meier's game.... and SMAC was a flag game of Firaxis in his days :( ). Will give a look...

This is good news for the patch... atleast they are still doing something related with Civ IV ( maybe this was a side product of the patching process ;) )

EA owns the rights to SMAC, so unless EA buys Take 2 we probably won't see a new SMAC.
 
EA owns the rights to SMAC, so unless EA buys Take 2 we probably won't see a new SMAC.
As I want to spare my fingers....
Ok...
Zacharov, a new era of struggle and oportunity awaits for you. The UN starship Unity has arrived to Proxima Centauri :p System after a fourty years voyage. All contact with Earth has been lost. After Captain Garland (... )
Good enough ? ;)

But I agree that EA has the bad taste of Simsmorph all the games that it grabs ( I :cry: about what they did to command and conquer..... ). Let's pray to Civ doesn't get there.....
But firaxis could remember that they had made it once in a while: they "forgot" to put it in a list of "Sid meier's games that you love most" choose in a beta testers request 2 or 3 weeks ago.... Not pretty, considering that SMAC was a Firaxis flag in those days ( it was it that dragged me to Sid's Universe :p ).
 
Bottom line : People will never be satisfied. Firaxis is doing a decent job.

Nope. They are not. And if they don't produce a good patch for BtS, I simply won't buy Civ 5 at all, even though I've been playing Civ since the very beginning. Enough is enough.
 
Your choice, but most people think Civ is one of the greatest series ever produced, if not the greatest, and you are complaining about lack of support in the BTS thread, which is an expansion of Civ 4. So, let's just set the record straight shall we:

1) Civ 4 is produced = good game, worthy of 90%.
2) Developers support game and patch it.
3) BTS is produced = very good game, worthy of 94%
4) Developers support game and patch it.

In addition to all the above, the developers create a game engine that allows the MOD community to enhance or improve the game and it's expansion as they see fit.

So what exactly are you complaining about? If you don't like the game as it is, then just download a MOD. PC games are different to consol games, as they evolve after the game is released. You can download a huge range of MODs and scenarios for both Civ 4 and BTS, so I completely fail to see why anyone is complaining.

Regards - Mr P
 
Your choice, but most people think Civ is one of the greatest series ever produced, if not the greatest, and you are complaining about lack of support in the BTS thread, which is an expansion of Civ 4. So, let's just set the record straight shall we:

1) Civ 4 is produced = good game, worthy of 90%.
2) Developers support game and patch it.
3) BTS is produced = very good game, worthy of 94%
4) Developers support game and patch it.

In addition to all the above, the developers create a game engine that allows the MOD community to enhance or improve the game and it's expansion as they see fit.

So what exactly are you complaining about? If you don't like the game as it is, then just download a MOD. PC games are different to consol games, as they evolve after the game is released. You can download a huge range of MODs and scenarios for both Civ 4 and BTS, so I completely fail to see why anyone is complaining.

Regards - Mr P

Rvil actually it's quite simple. Most would agree that the game itself is quite good but there are things which are very clearly broken. Firaxis know about the things that are broken, and are even said to be developing a patch. The complaint is that they are taking so long, probably because they are devoting their resources to other projects as outlined above, and as a result they are angering many in the community who want the game fixed. So your fourth point that they support the game and patch is it not entirely true. They have patched it but not patched it appropriately.

My opinion is that they should prioritise fixing BtS (final bug fixes and tweaks) before they move on to other projects. As an online player they've essentially lost me as a player until they patch the game again. At the moment I only play with a friend where we both use Bhruic's patch.

Anyway, this issue has been debated to death. All we can go on is Shafer's (spelling?) comments that there is a patch under way, and we have to accept that it's not on the top of their to-do list because of other projects.

By the way, game reviews are hardly worth mentioning. It is very unlikely that many reviews are written with zero bias these days, and reviewers do not normally include product support in their evaluation. Instead, reviews are based mainly on impressions.
 
Review scores were of my own making, so they were worth mentioning - LOL.

The only games I give 90%+ scores to are truly exceptional games like Morrowind, Deus Ex, Stalker, Gothic 3, Thief, Company of Heroes, Half Life, (just the original + episode 2), Fallout, Operation Flashpoint, Portal, Sims, (just kidding), WOW, (still kidding), etc. Yes, I know you may not think that some or all of the above are exceptional, but that just proves we live in a fascinating world, inhabited by people with no critical ability whatsoever, (just joking).

The thing that winds me up about people posting that they are never going to play civ again because they are impatient for a patch, relates to how obsessive said people are. If someone really feels that way, then they should post a comment, answer any replies they receive and then move on. There are any number of challenging and fun games about, so why can't the obsessive compulsive amongst us just go play a few of them, until the patch comes out.

Life is to short to check, but I would bet real cash money that most of the people who have posted that they will never play civ again, don't in fact move on, but instead keep posting complaint after complaint on this forum. I have therefore invented the following handy guideline on patch complaints.

3 or less posts = OK, you are annoyed, and you have something to say.
4 - 6 posts = Err, we got the point the first 3 times.
7 - 10 posts = OMG it's only a game.
11 + posts = zzzzzzzzzz

The largest developer on the planet is Microsoft, and even they can be slow to patch, and eventually they will and do stop patching their old products, so as to move on to the new ones.

BTS will play on your computer. It's not therefore broken, and it has been patched. Yes, there are flaws in it, but it's one of the most ambitious games on the planet, so such flaws are only to be expected, especially as it's not a stand alone game, but actually an add on / expansion to Civ 4.

There is no such thing as a perfect patch. There can't be, because for it to be perfect, it would have to satisfy every single one of the tens of thousands of players who have the game. So, no patch is ever going to satisfy everyone, and if any player really does have a huge problem waiting for the patch, and they can't solve their problem with a MOD or scenario, and they can't be arsed to make a MOD or scenario of their own that will solve their problem, then why can't they just move on to a new game, and come back later when the next patch is released?


Regards - Mr P
 
There's "not perfect" and then there's "broken," and broken can easily entail more than crashes in a complex game like Civ. It's a personal gripe if Firaxis has left a questionable bit of game balance standing for months. It's not so subjective, though, to say that Firaxis has left grievous errors in the code unaddressed by official means. What about the colony bug, whereby diplo data can be misallocated and all the wrong war declarations made if a colony is created following the extinction of a civ? If you're playing unmodified 3.13, folks, don't forget to turn off the vassals. (What's that? You like that game feature? Too bad for you.)

Yes, there's Bhruic's patch. And personally I'm satisfied with just that, particularly since I've been playing very little Civ and no MP. Even if I wasn't, I'm certainly not about to abandon Civ just because the next patch has been so low. But I can understand the perspective of MP players who are frustrated when they try to go on-line and bump into all the players who, for whatever reason, have _not_ installed Bhruic's patch. And I feel sorry for all the more casual civ fans out there who ran the game's auto-update, figured the game was good to go, and proceeded to set up colonies in the next game. It's one thing to leave a decently trouble-free product in search of the next thing that will actually pay the bills. It's another to leave it without so much as a hotfix despite a known, fairly game-breaking defect - especially when you have a MP community that needs standardization, but even just because there are people not tied into sites like this for unofficial fixes.

Ah well. It sounds like there's more in the making with this patch than just core game fixes, and maybe even some new content, so maybe the wait will have been worth it. It's just disappointing to see major bugs go unpatched for so long.
 
The only games I give 90%+ scores to are truly exceptional games like Morrowind, Deus Ex, Stalker, Gothic 3, Thief, Company of Heroes, Half Life, (just the original + episode 2), Fallout, Operation Flashpoint, Portal, Sims, (just kidding), WOW....
What about WOWOW??? :confused:

Wodan
 
BTS will play on your computer. It's not therefore broken, and it has been patched. Yes, there are flaws in it, but it's one of the most ambitious games on the planet, so such flaws are only to be expected, especially as it's not a stand alone game, but actually an add on / expansion to Civ 4.
As I don't want to whine more.... see Bh patch changelog to have a idea of how much 3.13 needs a patch:
Spoiler :
Changelog:
  • Fixed bug where culture/espionage would not display for building popups
  • Fixed bug where spies would be ejected from a square when declaring war
  • Fixed bug that caused the AI to trade for resources it already had (appears as grossly uneven trades)
  • Refixed trade bug
  • Refixed culture/espionage display bug
  • Fixed bug with Warlords attaching to units when the Great General is part of a selection group
  • Prevented new Colonies from overwriting previously existing Civs
  • No longer displays new Colony message if player hasn't met Master Civ
  • Workers on Transports no longer perform capture of cities (thereby displacing all other units) when city is captured
  • Units considered "unsuitable" for city defense will no longer be prevented from healing in cities
  • No longer able to base an unlimited number of air units in vassal's cities
  • Can found Corporations under Mercantilism
  • Vassal's spies will no longer be "caught" in your territory
  • Amount of time worked taken into consideration by city plot selection (thanks SevenSpirits)
  • The Vassal of a Capitulating Civ is freed before peace treaty
  • Mouse-over for Worker actively working a plot no longer counts Worker twice
  • Automated Workers will no longer idle when railroading is possible
  • Mouse-over for Join City now displays extra bonuses for Great People
  • Vassals freed by Capitulating Master no longer refuse to talk
  • Privateers can only enter team members' or vassals' cities
  • Automated Workers will no longer idle in cities within 2 squares of a hostile border
  • Refixed Vassal/capitulation
  • AIs less likely to build Executives if they can't afford to use them or already have sufficient
  • Buildings that grant both heathiness and unhealthiness will display both instead of neither in building popups
  • Vassals can no longer be their Master's worst enemy
  • Espionage ratio for humans now displayed in score tooltip (thanks morbus)
  • Improved worker threat assessment from units able to move multiple squares
  • Spies no longer interrupt their mission when moving next to an enemy unit
  • Fixed AI turn slowdown caused by change to worker threat assessment
  • Relationship penalty for declaring war on a friend checks if Civs are at war
  • Altered previous worker threat assessment check so it's less useful, but more efficient
  • Fixed bug (introduced) causing endless loop at "waiting for players"
  • Fixed bug (introduced) causing the Great Persons civilopedia entries to be blank
  • Stolen techs can no longer be traded with No Tech Brokering enabled
  • New Colonies mirror their Master's tech status with No Tech Brokering enabled
  • New Colonies mirror their Master's exploration (map) status
  • Healthy/Unhealthy bonuses will display properly under more circumstances (events, etc)
  • Extended spy ejection protection to Great Spies (and any other unit considered "always invisible")
  • AI Civs under Theocracy will no longer accept gifted Missionaries
  • Units withdrawing from combat will be removed from selection group (thanks Moctezuma)
  • When bumping naval units from cities, preference will be given to water tiles
  • Tweaks/bugfixes to improve starting city locations (thanks SevenSpirits)
  • Cities no longer require a Monument to allow Spies to sabotage buildings
  • Rivers added for starting locations will generate flood plains if they pass through desert tiles
  • Spy unit help popup will display the percentage espionage cost decrease from fortification

Nothing in the software world is perfect, but if we have a " forgive and forget" atitude we'll get to Big Rigs level pretty fast.....
 
Review scores were of my own making, so they were worth mentioning - LOL.

The only games I give 90%+ scores to are truly exceptional games like Morrowind, Deus Ex, Stalker, Gothic 3, Thief, Company of Heroes, Half Life, (just the original + episode 2), Fallout, Operation Flashpoint, Portal, Sims, (just kidding), WOW, (still kidding), etc. Yes, I know you may not think that some or all of the above are exceptional, but that just proves we live in a fascinating world, inhabited by people with no critical ability whatsoever, (just joking).

The thing that winds me up about people posting that they are never going to play civ again because they are impatient for a patch, relates to how obsessive said people are. If someone really feels that way, then they should post a comment, answer any replies they receive and then move on. There are any number of challenging and fun games about, so why can't the obsessive compulsive amongst us just go play a few of them, until the patch comes out.

Life is to short to check, but I would bet real cash money that most of the people who have posted that they will never play civ again, don't in fact move on, but instead keep posting complaint after complaint on this forum. I have therefore invented the following handy guideline on patch complaints.

3 or less posts = OK, you are annoyed, and you have something to say.
4 - 6 posts = Err, we got the point the first 3 times.
7 - 10 posts = OMG it's only a game.
11 + posts = zzzzzzzzzz

The largest developer on the planet is Microsoft, and even they can be slow to patch, and eventually they will and do stop patching their old products, so as to move on to the new ones.

BTS will play on your computer. It's not therefore broken, and it has been patched. Yes, there are flaws in it, but it's one of the most ambitious games on the planet, so such flaws are only to be expected, especially as it's not a stand alone game, but actually an add on / expansion to Civ 4.

There is no such thing as a perfect patch. There can't be, because for it to be perfect, it would have to satisfy every single one of the tens of thousands of players who have the game. So, no patch is ever going to satisfy everyone, and if any player really does have a huge problem waiting for the patch, and they can't solve their problem with a MOD or scenario, and they can't be arsed to make a MOD or scenario of their own that will solve their problem, then why can't they just move on to a new game, and come back later when the next patch is released?


Regards - Mr P

Sorry I assumed the scores you gave were based on someone else's opinion. But my response is summed up in what Kloreep said - There's "not perfect" and there's "broken". To be honest I also don't agree with the common belief that a game can never be bug free. It's certainly true a game can never be perfect because it will not satisfy different people to the same extent. But it's possible for there to be a game that does not contain actual errors. Balance tweaks aside of course. It may be impossible to prove a game is bug-free but that is a different matter and should not be confused. The most obvious bug that plagues 3.13 is the culture display bug. A feature that worked in every previous of Civ4 and its expansions was suddenly broken in 3.13. When I'm playing MP with a blazing turn timer it's frustrating to waste time checking the civilopedia when I'm unsure about the cultural output of a wonder, for example.

People who "complain" about BtS 3.13 are probably so quick to challenge the opinions of people who believe the status quo is ok because they think the people who are already satisfied either mustn't care or are taking the age-old typical stance of "stop complaining". People have every right to complain and when it's in an appropriate context (like this thread) and where there is a contribution to the discussion I'd encourage it. People like to put complainers on a similar level as trolls, but there's always the equally justified position of questioning why people feel the need to tell people to stop complaining.

Also, I'd imagine the bugs in an operating system are far far far harder to detect than in a game. IMO the patching of Windows operating systems is at the very least satisfactory. The Microsoft patching team would be able to change many more lightbulbs than the Firaxis patching team at the moment.
 
So after 6 months... we get a patch that doesn't fix everything that the unofficial patch fixed.

Oh yeah, and you now have the option to disable the big feature add-on for BtS.

Any wagers on this not being the "Final Patch"?

I suspect Firaxis calls this one done and walks away rather than releasing a real patch.
 
So after 6 months... we get a patch that doesn't fix everything that the unofficial patch fixed.

Oh yeah, and you now have the option to disable the big feature add-on for BtS.

Any wagers on this not being the "Final Patch"?

I suspect Firaxis calls this one done and walks away rather than releasing a real patch.

Have you actually tried 3.17? What proof do you have?

A lot of people think Bhruic "fixed" (I use the term losely) too much and re-broke some things. And a lot of people consider that Bhruic "fixed" (losely again) things that weren't broken.

So basically, ask anyone for a list of what needs fixing, and guarenteed EVERYONES list is different. And just because Bhruic "fixed" (yep, losely again) something doesn't mean that Firaxis considered it needed changing.
 
In that I have to agree.... I was ( and am ) very vocal against the Bh change that prevented AI from accepting missionaries under theo ( IMHO it is more a problem of the AI deciding about the pros vs cons then anything else... a AI may want to be save from a war vs heatens or to get AP hammers ).....

But the last discussions that were made in Bh thread should be read by Firaxians, because most likely they didn't fixed the closeness algorythim ( that is clearly broken )
 
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