Civilizations, Leaders and Traits

I'll second Deliverator - Wensicia is part of original series, and fits as most un-moral side of House Corrino.

Also i think we may want use some photoshopping , but not a picture/drawing, because it would not look consistent with other leaderheads, which are simply photos of characters.
We can use by the way Edric O , as ixian leader. Anyways he served Ordos, but in dune 2000 Ordos described as allies of IX, and he as Ixian Thinking machine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U70lX3N8y4o

Or just be 3rd leader for Ordos. (Pro, Fin)?
 
This is the best image I've found for Rhomber Vernius:
Click to expand...

Looks quite good.

I'll second Deliverator - Wensicia is part of original series, and fits as most un-moral side of House Corrino
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Elrood is completely canon, its just he's dead before Dune starts. He's still referred to, and still shows up in the family tree.
I really dislike Wensicia, but partly this is just my Dune >>>> Children of Dune bias showing.
I also have no real feel for the personality of Wensicia; the leaderhead values I gave for her were more what I imagined Elrood might be. A slightly less aggressive, less impetuous, more calculating version of Elrood. Maybe this still fits ok for both.
 
Where are you getting any kind of personality of Elrood? I know he is mentioned briefly in Dune, but not with any kind of sense in the kind of person he was. Wensicia on the other hand has a very large role in one of the books. And if you are using her image from the movie, then an even larger role.
 
idahopotato said:
Prescience is something that only the Paul and Leto had, or at least complete prescience. Alia had a very little. Reverend Mothers don't have prescience really. The spice helps enhance their abilities, like truth sense, and the guild navigators had a limited prescient brought about by living in the spice, but KH prescience was a combination of the spice and the Atreides genes.
Click to expand...
I agree with idahopotato! Prescience is more Paul or guild stuff...
...what is missing for the BG is the feared voice!!

Ideas for implementation:
When a Rev.Mother (stack) is attacked by a ground unit, there is a (small?) percentage of chance, that the attacking unit changes its mind and doesn't attack at all. It then looses its movement points.
Also (or alternativly) a "special bombard" button could be attached, that allows a mother to let a unit withdraw (the next possible field) or better (to implement): looses it's action for next turn. The success of the voice could be dependent on the XP-level of the opponent. Also a promotion "immune to voice"/"high voice resistance" could be possible for some units (such as the Atreides heir ;)). Also several "voice-upgrades" could be thought of (all with different success rate), such as loosing more "time" then just a turn, being damaged, being killed, being converted.
Also consequences for failing the "voice-mission" could be thought of.:satan:

Greetz Hived.
 
Voice / Prescience can be also a Trait.
just sayng
 
I dislike the idea of Voice having combat effects. Its like David Lynch all over again, turning Bene Gesserit into super-ninjas.

The voice can't stop a regiment of soldiers from shooting you.
 
No, I don't really think that makes sense. We definitely do not want Bene Gesserit building Atreides heirs and Facedancers and Devastators and chemical troopers.

The Bene Gesserit are devious political manipulators, masters of intrigue. They should have massive cultural benefits, and abilities to gain terrain and possibly cause revolts without war.
 
OOOH in that case hows this for an idea.

Give BG the Voice as a trait which causes non BG cities within x squares of the BG cultural border a small chance to revolt each turn, also remove the diplomatic penalty for 'cultural borders clashing' with the BG, and possibly allow the BG Forts to expand their cultural radius one more square.

potentially also give the Rev.Mother one off abilities similar to the FfH Trust (+4 diplomacty "you seem trustworthy) and maybe even Peace (Stops all wars with the user at the cost of the units death.) these would only work if Rev.Mother is a world unit though and cant be rebuilt.
 
Ahriman said:
I dislike the idea of Voice having combat effects. Its like David Lynch all over again, turning Bene Gesserit into super-ninjas.

The voice can't stop a regiment of soldiers from shooting you.
Click to expand...
Hmmm... combat effects are thought of easiest. As the Rev. Mother is a unit and units normally only have effects on opponent units/cities, I see no other choice than giving here combat effects. Making her "GP-like" and let her improve "home" seems not fitting to the voice.
Of course a BG-witch can't voice a whole army... but maybe she can come along with the commander. Until the opponent faction leader realizes this, a turn can be gone! I also don't see a witch on a battle-field like a war-mage or something. Of course they are sneaky! The fact, that the voice won't always succeed shows, that it is not always possible, to voice the opponent leader.
Alternativly, they could get a "spy-function"... maybe also as "spiritual advisors": As soon as in opponents capital: sacrifice to become spiritual advisor-> +1 diplomatic influence "we are happy, you give us advices"... maximum: +4.

...but that's not the voice...
The voice could either be used, to "force" diplomatic agreements... but 1.) how to implement? 2.) too strong!!

some better ideas?! IMO the voice is one of the main abilities of the witches... it should be implemented somehow!

Greetz, Hived!
 
@david: If we have two incarnations of Paul, Paul Atreides for the Atreides and Paul Muad'Dib for the Fremen is it possible to write some code that will ensure that both don't appear in the same game?

Code: 
pseudocode:
    If player leader is Paul Atreides and Paul Muad'Dib is in the game then
              choose alternate Fremen leader 
    else if player leader is Paul Muad'Dib and Paul Atreides is in the game then
              choose alternate Atreides leader
 
Deliverator said:
@david: If we have two incarnations of Paul, Paul Atreides for the Atreides and Paul Muad'Dib for the Fremen is it possible to write some code that will ensure that both don't appear in the same game?
Click to expand...

I don't think I can stop the user from setting up that scenario in the custom game screen. Is it important to have him in both? I don't see too much benefit.
 
In that case, I'm with the move him back the Fremen and call him Paul Muad'Dib camp. That way both Fremen and Atreides will have 3 leaders. His leaderhead is more Fremen than Atreides anyway.
 
DV32: Is it possible to edit the pedia so that Civilizations have information on their URs and URUs? A new Controlled Resource section perhaps.

At the moment the new player might think that the Fremen, for example, have no unique units when, in effect, they do.
 
In that case, I'm with the move him back the Fremen and call him Paul Muad'Dib camp.
Click to expand...

Can I suggest the Decius solution from FFH? He can be a leader of either, but is still just a single leader who can only show up once per game.

At the moment the new player might think that the Fremen, for example, have no unique units when, in effect, they do.
Click to expand...

Good point.
 
Ahriman said:
Can I suggest the Decius solution from FFH? He can be a leader of either, but is still just a single leader who can only show up once per game.
Click to expand...

I don't think I can stop the user from setting up that scenario in the custom game screen. Is it important to have him in both? I don't see too much benefit.
 
We can change plot abit and add The Preacher (freemen)
Favorite religion Shai Hulud
Some fitting personality which hates Qizarate , Arrakis Paradise

He became real fremen when he left his palace, attpmted to give his life according fremen tradition because he was blind.
It also, kinda , different person. And we may make them completely different even.
 
Deliverator said:
DV32: Is it possible to edit the pedia so that Civilizations have information on their URs and URUs? A new Controlled Resource section perhaps.
Click to expand...

This is already present in 1.6.3. If there is a more obvious way to do it, please let me know. If you get the hover help for the civilization, you will see that the UR are listed there as "controlled resources". I did not list the URU, because it seems redundant; once you know the UR, you can go to the bonus and it already lists which units it enables.

The same hover help appears, in a different format, in the Dawn Of Man popup. I never really noticed this till I added the code, but the DOM popup also lists the UR and UU. It also shows the UR as of 1.6.3.

1. Do you feel that the URU should be listed directly from the civilization pedia, or is it enough to list the UR and keep the existing list in the bonus pedia?

2. Is the hover help for the civilization enough, or should we also add material into the text of the civilopedia? The text is entirely background material with no in-game mechanics, which is the same as vanilla.
 
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