Ethnic Diversity (R.E.D. Unofficial) v.29 beta 5b

Hi, first of all thank you for this great mod.
A tip for if you gonna implement it for G & K, I know it always supported the 2 Dutch civ mods that were out there. Since the dutch are now in the game proper, can u use the mods UU's as ethnic units for the originals in game, Frigate and Pikeman?
But rename Watergeus into Geus, because the game has a unique unit "Sea Beggar" (english for Watergeus) as a ship for the Netherlands. We can keep the one from the mod as an on land (Geus) replacement for the Pikeman. They fought on land and on the water anyway.

Besides the scale & the optional units, what is the main difference between RED and ED? Did you guys have different features in mind, or simply just as Nutty explained: to take over from RED since it seemed semi(for-the-time-being)-abandoned?

To be honest I don't need the units to be rescaled. I think they are fine the way they are. I only like the ethnic diversity part of it all. As far as I've seen this one has more ethnic units collected than RED.
I wish I wouldn't need either and could just like with CIV 3 and 4 download loads of units and put them in game the way I like. But since they made it practicly impossible to mod things on a smaller scale, like just replacing a unit for a singular civ. That won't break everytime there is an update.
I tried to read a lot in the beginning like with every new civ game on how to do things yourself (which for me was always the most fun) but basicly gave up after seeing so many people failing to get stuff to work.
So i leave it to the professionals like Nutty, they seem to understand all this LUA stuff.
A pitty that there aren't a lot of Unit modders out there for Civ 5 (probably because it is so though to do I guess). There is a guy who is buzy to convert a lot of the civ 4 units for civ 5, but he won't release untill he is finished and he was at last count at 109 of the 250 he wanted to do, and he's been buzy for a year now I think. So I gave up on that one too.
So at the end Im happy that someone is willing to make this kind of a collection mod.

Personally, the scale's my 2nd favorite part, it really helps the game feel realistic (which it could use more of). But, I still love the units. Trying to play without them is a cake sans frosting, same decent substance, but kind of bland. A mod I loved for CIV, that would be great to transfer would be Varietas Delectact. It had ethnic (for EVERY civ), plus added Industrial & Modern era units that were sorely lacking (such as a full "Battleship" line: Ship-of-Line - Ironclad Battleship - PreDreadnought - Dreadnought - Battleship - Missile Cruiser). another mod even added a "Fusion Battleship" using the skin from the 'Final Frontier' mod.

Megalamon121 said:

Besides the scale & the optional units, what is the main difference between RED and ED?

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I was specifically trying to keep to the spirit of Gedemon's modpack.

durfal said:

To be honest I don't need the units to be rescaled. I think they are fine the way they are. I only like the ethnic diversity part of it all. As far as I've seen this one has more ethnic units collected than RED.

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In terms of numbers, Gedemon's closed the gap quite a bit, and he has added Patum333's swordsmen conversions as well.

durfal said:

There is a guy who is buzy to convert a lot of the civ 4 units for civ 5, but he won't release untill he is finished...

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FYI, Danrell began releasing his new unit packs yesterday! I'm sure Gedemon will collect those into R.E.D. when he gets back. As soon as that's released, I'll see what's left to include as far as an optional units pack. I've also got a working beta for Single Unit Graphics that plays well with or without R.E.D.

durfal said:

I wish I wouldn't need either and could just like with CIV 3 and 4 download loads of units and put them in game the way I like.

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You might find it quite a bit easier now. I'm sure one of us will put up a tutorial at some point, but for me (and believe me, I'm no expert), I've found taking apart existing mods is a great way to learn.

ur mod or gedemons have more ethnic units?
i know that it is annoying all the people asking u about this in ur forum but i posted it also in red modpack but i took no worthy answer
and when we can have a ver compatible with g&k ?

PAVLOS_GR300 said:

ur mod or gedemons have more ethnic units?

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Gedemon's answer was fine: It doesn't really matter who has more units, since E.D. doesn't work anymore. We're both working with the same base of units; it just depends on how picky you want to get. I'm less picky, so of course I had more units.

PAVLOS_GR300 said:

and when we can have a ver compatible with g&k ?

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I'm not going to compete directly with Gedemon (that was never the point), but I'll release an Optional Units pack as an add-on for R.E.D. for those that want destroyers, carriers, paratroopers, etc. and anything else I feel like throwing in that Gedemon has decided doesn't quite fit. I'm not going to bother until Gedemon releases the next version, but he appears to be motivated to do so soon, what with danrell's recent gift to unit lovers.

EDIT:

Megalamon121 said:

A mod I loved for CIV, that would be great to transfer would be Varietas Delectact.

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FYI, I'm personally not intending to add new unit classes (even with Marathon games, it feels like tech levels go by fairly quickly, especially after the G&K additions), and balance issues can be quite a pain (not that vanilla doesn't have it's balance issues; that's just a different mod).

Nutty said:

Gedemon's answer was fine: It doesn't really matter who has more units, since E.D. doesn't work anymore. We're both working with the same base of units; it just depends on how picky you want to get. I'm less picky, so of course I had more units.


I'm not going to compete directly with Gedemon (that was never the point), but I'll release an Optional Units pack as an add-on for R.E.D. for those that want destroyers, carriers, paratroopers, etc. and anything else I feel like throwing in that Gedemon has decided doesn't quite fit. I'm not going to bother until Gedemon releases the next version, but he appears to be motivated to do so soon, what with danrell's recent gift to unit lovers.

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so u want to turn ur mod to an add on for gedemon's mod?

PAVLOS_GR300 said:

so u want to turn ur mod to an add on for gedemon's mod?

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Acutually, that what be brilliant. RED itself is a great mod. I'd love diversity all the way to each civ, but whatever I can get is fine. If you're not working on the main part of the mod for yourself, an optional pack would be perfect. I liked some your other add-ons too, like the random city-name & landmark scaler, those are truely some of the best small-scale mods I've ever seen.

Megalamon121 said:

Acutually, that what be brilliant. RED itself is a great mod. I'd love diversity all the way to each civ, but whatever I can get is fine. If you're not working on the main part of the mod for yourself, an optional pack would be perfect. I liked some your other add-ons too, like the random city-name & landmark scaler, those are truely some of the best small-scale mods I've ever seen.

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what i bassicaly want is as much etnic diversity is possible to each unit and red unit scale ,if this is possible i dont care if it is named ED or RED modpack

PAVLOS_GR300 said:

so u want to turn ur mod to an add on for gedemon's mod?

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That's my plan. To my point of view, that's not far off from what I had been doing.

Megalamon121 said:

I liked some your other add-ons too

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Hey, thanks!

Megalamon121 said:

I'd love diversity all the way to each civ

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PAVLOS_GR300 said:

as much etnic diversity is possible

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Right. I think anyone reading this agrees... with the caveat that the models should (to one degree or another) be consistent in era and art-style and be historically accurate (or alternate-history feasible).

Unfortunately, the Civ4 conversions are a pain, but as mentioned above, a couple of people have resumed working on them lately.

just FYI I've started work on next version of R.E.D., and will also add danrell's WWII destroyers and aircraft carriers in it.

If you're looking for ideas: Check out the sample pics from Varietas Delectat.

My personal favorite is the Germany pic, it shows a clear uniqueness from warrior to Jet Fighter, with nearly every unit in-between. They even added a few, such as Armored Car or IFV (could possibly be used for VEM's Vanguard units line); Ironclad Battleship/Pre-Dreadnought/Dread (for interesting mid-line between Ironclad-Battleship); Early Destroyer (could fill Frigate-Destroyer gap).

There's also the v8.0 pic showing concepts for how Asian, African and Middle-Eastern naval units could look

Nutty said:

Right. I think anyone reading this agrees... with the caveat that the models should (to one degree or another) be consistent in era and art-style and be historically accurate (or alternate-history feasible).

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Nutty said:

Unfortunately, the Civ4 conversions are a pain, but as mentioned above, a couple of people have resumed working on them lately.

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I realize conversions may be too much to ask. I'm not a modder, so all I can do is suggest. But, Avian (plus several more modders) did a bang-up job of filling in the appearance gaps, and I thought, at very least, you guys could borrow some of that mod's ideas. Especially since, (as Nutty pointed out) India didn't build a WW2 Battleship, or the Aztecs never had Musketmen, or American warriors? Etc. So, being 100% accurate isn't completely possible. Therefore, imagination will be required for a large portion of this mod's substance.

-Also, At what point can you add custom avatars to your civfan profile? Is there a number of posts required?-

You've resumed the goal of Ethnic Diversity mods here, "filling the gaps" is planned from day one, but can't be done without corresponding units

For fun, I've made a XLS that can be found in any version of R.E.D to track the progress until final version of the mod, the one with almost only ethnic units... counter is at 7,97% ATM (has go down from above 8% with addition of 8 new civs...)

luckily for us, danrell is releasing a new batch of units, which means we can start filling the ancient era.

edit: wasn't remembering correctly...

R.E.D. for civ4 was based on (and developed along) Avain's Keymod (which become later Varietas Delectat), but I stopped updating it with patch 3.14 for BTS.

It used new unit classes and bonus units, and I may create an add-on for civ5's R.E.D. to add light tanks, heavy tanks, attack aircraft, different generations of jetfighters, cruisers, dreadnought, etc... but priority is on base R.E.D. with unchanged gameplay.

Gedemon said:

luckily for us, danrell is releasing a new batch of units, which means we can start filling the ancient era.

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Ooh, sounds lovely. Would you mind telling me where his mod's at? Or at least when he's planning to release?

Gedemon said:

It used new unit classes and bonus units, and I may create an add-on for civ5's R.E.D. to add light tanks, heavy tanks, attack aircraft, different generations of jetfighters, cruisers, dreadnought, etc... but priority is on base R.E.D. with unchanged gameplay.

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I understand. While the bonus units oozed awesomeness, I can live without them. Having the base units ethnic would be great in itself.

You can preview what will be added in the civ5 unit section of the forum.

Gedemon said:

You can preview what will be added in the civ5 unit section of the forum.

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excelent stuff ,when aproximetly they will be added to u mod?

a few days, less than a week I hope.

Lots of activity on the thread in the last few days which is always good.
First I want to say in a late response to Nutty that I tried the RED pack itself off course but the downscaling makes the units to small for my taste. In the way I play I can hardly see the diversity anymore that way, probably because I zoom out a bit already.
Furthermore I find it hard to seperate the downscaling files from the ethnic diversity ones when I looked at them to try and turn the downscaling off myself. So unless someone can give me a tutorial how to do exactly that I keep my hope's up for this mod (or addon if you like).
And yeah I also played CIV 4 with Varietas Delectat, Thomas' War and a few other mods that all added a bit other extra's to the ethnic diversity they had in common.

For those who want to revert R.E.D. Modpack to vanilla scale, I've posted a beta of an unofficial add-on to R.E.D. that should do the trick. Warning: I haven't tested it extensively.

Let me know if you have any problems.