Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
You really dodged my questions there, Dommy.
Santorum Supporter Visits Ron Paul Rally
- Thread starter Cryptic_Snow
- Start date
GhostWriter16
Deity
ok, I know you can technically defend slaves, but again, "You can only own something you can defend" does not mean that "You own everything you defend." A slave's right to be free trumps your right to own them.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
So why did you defend the CSA an entity devoted to maintaining slavery and thus, according to you, depriving the slaves of their rights?
GhostWriter16
Deity
Slavery is wrong, period. However, saying the Confederates were "Devoted" to maintaining slavery is a statement that directly leads to false connotations, mainly that the North was some kind of moral deliverer who wanted to free the slaves (Nevermind that the North didn't abolish slavery either.)
Plus, while I absolutely deplore slavery, I think most of the other CSA positions, mainly reduced Federal governmen involvement, were correct. Supreme Court Justice John Marshall and his court basically manipulated the constitution to increase Federal power, which increased the wealth of the North. The South, rightfully, opposed this idea.
But the main reason I use the CSA flag on occasion is to simply spread the message that the right to secede is not, in fact, banned, and that the CSA were no more traitors than the Patriots.
Plus, horrible things were done in the name of the US flag as well, but we still patriotically defend it.
And finally, while I absolutely agree slavery is disgusting, it wasn't always like it is portrayed, many slaveowners had familial bonds with their slaves. It was big plantation owners that really abued them. And for the ones who were treated nicely, due to racist attitudes at the time, short of going to Canada, there was no better option for them.
In short, while slavery is completely evil, there's a bit more to the whole thing than you know. Not that I really expect someone from Britain who doesn't have a serious academic interest in American History to know the details. A lot of Americans falsely believe the same things you do about the CSA.
IdiotsOpposite
Boom, headshot.
Talk about Santorum and Ron Paul --> Slavery!
Another thread derailed. Good job. I'm serious.
No really, I am.
Another thread derailed. Good job. I'm serious.
No really, I am.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
"Slavery is wrong but..."
I'm sure those slaves really loved their masters.
Congratulations for being an apologist for a racist group of slavers and for downplaying the horrors of slavery.
I'm sure those slaves really loved their masters.
Congratulations for being an apologist for a racist group of slavers and for downplaying the horrors of slavery.
GhostWriter16
Deity
We need to take this to another thread, but basically what I'm saying is, all slavery is bad, none of it is OK, but there are different degrees of bad regarding to it. The same is true for almost anything.
I think the way you switch from ideological to pragmatic debate whenever it's convenient deserves special mention.
You started the rights angle, now address the problem presented to you accordingly.
But if I own a factory, why should I not be able to pollute the air that trespasses on my property?
GhostWriter16
Deity
Because that also pollutes the air for people that aren't on your property. If the effect could be limited to your own property, it should be legal.
So if you refuse to allow a couple to stay at your inn, you effect others as the couple goes looking for shelter. Who knows, they might get stuck in a manger.
GhostWriter16
Deity
That's the most freaking stupid argument I've ever seen. I apologize to Arakhor, he is officially NOT the most stupid person here.
Stop trolling JR.
Stop trolling JR.
So if I turn away a gay couple and they show up at your B&B, have the actions I took on my property affected you?
GhostWriter16
Deity
Yes but your property rights would be supreme in this case...
"Affect you" is bad terminology I guess. A better phrase would be "Takes away someone else's rights." You don't have a "Right" to stay on my property (I'd make an exception for the extreme, temporary situation that ParkCungHee pointed out in another thread, if its either stay on my property for a short time or DIE, I think that's an extreme enough cases for a 'Lesseer of the evils' doctrine and making me let them in, at least temporarily.
If you pollute the air excessively, you are taking away my right to breathe air. This is actually one of the legitimate uses of the government, in this case they aren't taking away anyone's rights, but finding out where yours end and mine begin. This is something courts and lawmakers have to deal with.
"Affect you" is bad terminology I guess. A better phrase would be "Takes away someone else's rights." You don't have a "Right" to stay on my property (I'd make an exception for the extreme, temporary situation that ParkCungHee pointed out in another thread, if its either stay on my property for a short time or DIE, I think that's an extreme enough cases for a 'Lesseer of the evils' doctrine and making me let them in, at least temporarily.
If you pollute the air excessively, you are taking away my right to breathe air. This is actually one of the legitimate uses of the government, in this case they aren't taking away anyone's rights, but finding out where yours end and mine begin. This is something courts and lawmakers have to deal with.
If you discriminate excessively, you are taking away other's right to live in a civil society.
GhostWriter16
Deity
That's just a load of crap. You have no "Right" to use my business unless you already paid for such use.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Again, why do you have a right to own a business? What is it about property that makes it inherently worthy of protecting?
If you made an offer to provide accommodation to the general public, being willing to pay for such accommodations at your stated price is accepting that offer. Refusing to live up to your offer is a breach of contract and pollutes the business climate for everyone.
That's just a load of crap. You have no "Right" to use my business unless you already paid for such use.
GhostWriter16
Deity
How could it not? And by your logic, why do we own anything? Why can't a stranger just walk into my house and sleep on my sofa?
If you say "They can" then I'm just going to quit while I'm ahead. If not, why not? According to a "No property" perspective?
Unless you have exceptions ahead of time...
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Well, yes, that is what I'm asking.
