homeyg and Deity
- Thread starter homeyg
- Start date
Cool.
Thanks, I noticed it actually mentions the mod instead of end turn on your screenshot, so I feel stupid for asking.
druidravi
King
Spoiler :
.Spoiler :
Wouldn't that mean the fish+gold spot was open? It's not as good but it's something.
Maybe rush him with horse archers or chariots? I'm not sure. :xAs for me, played till 1450AD.
Spoiler :
Unconquered Sun
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 1,462
I wanted to write a bit about supercities.
Supercities are very important for small civs, and deity pangeas often leave us players with such small civs.
The way to keep up in science then becomes the supercity.
A supercity's principle task is to generate lots of beakers. However, bulbing great scientists is the most effective way to research in early to mid game. That's why supercities often end up as being both GP farm and science city.
This is my capital in the Spanish game. Palace + good starting positions usually make capitals the best supercities.
The foremost thing Madrid does is produce great people.
However, it also runs a few cottages (actually more like villages already). They are build in the best possible locations, namely the river grasslands. The reason to keep them running instead of, say, four more irrigations and two more scientists lies in the mechanics of bulbing. As powerful as bulbing gpp-beaker ratio is, most techs cannot be bulbed optimally. Many are too cheap to fully utilize even one great scientists, and all lose a fraction of the bulb when finished with it.
That's why it's good to have traditional research power.
In a larger empire, this can be achieved by building research when needed. In a miniempire, a high commerce supercity under bureacracy and academy is best.
It's very important to grow your supercity. Monarchy is great for the happy cap. And for health, don't underestimate forests. Chop them only when you actually have the pop to continuously use the tile beneath, or when you absolutely need to rush crucial wonders.
Don't build workers and settlers in the supercity once you have a few other cities going. Focus on growing it as large as possible. Don't build units you can build somewhere else. Focus on advanced infrastructure like aquaducts, harbors, etc.
As it grows, some buildings become more important then usual. Monasteries are one example. Research 10% more doesn't sound like much, but in a supercity it may well be a dozen bpt.
Normally the supercity works only resources, cottages, irrigations, specialists. Improvements like windmills or normal cost tiles are totally suboptimal.
Mines however follow different rules. They are used some of the time, when the supercity needs to build something fast.
Also a thing of note, I sometimes overlap to-be-cottaged tiles in other cities bfcs. This way, the supercity needs no bother working cottages/hamlets and can focus better on being a GP farm. Once the cottaged tiles reach 4 commerce or so (that's effectively 6 with Bureaucracy) the supercity starts working them.
National Epic is the only must-have national wonder. Oxford seems like a good second, but that depends on various circumstances.
Finally, to balance the supercity's peacemongering focus, the rest of the empire can develop as more of a production base, avoiding cottages for after successful expansion wars and emancipation.
Supercities are very important for small civs, and deity pangeas often leave us players with such small civs.
The way to keep up in science then becomes the supercity.
A supercity's principle task is to generate lots of beakers. However, bulbing great scientists is the most effective way to research in early to mid game. That's why supercities often end up as being both GP farm and science city.
This is my capital in the Spanish game. Palace + good starting positions usually make capitals the best supercities.
The foremost thing Madrid does is produce great people.
However, it also runs a few cottages (actually more like villages already). They are build in the best possible locations, namely the river grasslands. The reason to keep them running instead of, say, four more irrigations and two more scientists lies in the mechanics of bulbing. As powerful as bulbing gpp-beaker ratio is, most techs cannot be bulbed optimally. Many are too cheap to fully utilize even one great scientists, and all lose a fraction of the bulb when finished with it.
That's why it's good to have traditional research power.
In a larger empire, this can be achieved by building research when needed. In a miniempire, a high commerce supercity under bureacracy and academy is best.
It's very important to grow your supercity. Monarchy is great for the happy cap. And for health, don't underestimate forests. Chop them only when you actually have the pop to continuously use the tile beneath, or when you absolutely need to rush crucial wonders.
Don't build workers and settlers in the supercity once you have a few other cities going. Focus on growing it as large as possible. Don't build units you can build somewhere else. Focus on advanced infrastructure like aquaducts, harbors, etc.
As it grows, some buildings become more important then usual. Monasteries are one example. Research 10% more doesn't sound like much, but in a supercity it may well be a dozen bpt.
Normally the supercity works only resources, cottages, irrigations, specialists. Improvements like windmills or normal cost tiles are totally suboptimal.
Mines however follow different rules. They are used some of the time, when the supercity needs to build something fast.
Also a thing of note, I sometimes overlap to-be-cottaged tiles in other cities bfcs. This way, the supercity needs no bother working cottages/hamlets and can focus better on being a GP farm. Once the cottaged tiles reach 4 commerce or so (that's effectively 6 with Bureaucracy) the supercity starts working them.
National Epic is the only must-have national wonder. Oxford seems like a good second, but that depends on various circumstances.
Finally, to balance the supercity's peacemongering focus, the rest of the empire can develop as more of a production base, avoiding cottages for after successful expansion wars and emancipation.
Quite possibly religion did the trick. Early diplo was really easy in my game .. everyone hindu except Monty & Roosy. Before I switched to FR I had +20 diplo with Pacal.
Yes I had a very strong position in this game and this certainly is winnable. I took a big hit getting up a riffle army asap, you can see it on the screens.
Liberalism -> 256 breakers
Riffles army -> 151 breakers, which is a really deep downfall considering I'm much more advanced at that point.
20 turns after riffle army -> 401 breakers, where I just switched civics and aim to regrow pop.
Imho Pacal is only ahead because I pretty much killed off my science for +-30 turns. Focus will be Oxford in the capital and get those newly captured cities up and running, from there on the "catch up" game will commence.
I might just sign a defensive pact with Pacal so I don't have to worry about getting dow'ed by anyone soon.Umm... I would just like to say that this is probably the best thread I have ever read here on these forums.
Unconquered Sun, your super-city post is very nice. I would like to know more about how you decided to work the AIs into wars with each other, and furthermore, if it cost you up to 5 techs to get a war started, how you even possibly kept up technologically.
Unconquered Sun, your super-city post is very nice. I would like to know more about how you decided to work the AIs into wars with each other, and furthermore, if it cost you up to 5 techs to get a war started, how you even possibly kept up technologically.
Unconquered Sun
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 1,462
The five techs were gifted to GK, luckily he is slow with his own research.
That's the norm for many of the most aggressive warmongers: GK, Shaka, Boudica, etc. Bribing them doesn't jeopardize research lead. They are also the ones most likely to declare war for no other reason but opportunism so always drag them into wars.
For the more honorable AIs, once wars start rolling, the AI relations sore and DoW patterns appear. For instance, in my Izzy game, Augustus is patterned to attack Shaka now despite we share a border and he is only cautious to me.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Are you going to do another "university" style thread USon? Very informative thread that.
iamnleth
Warlord
Yes! I would love to see a deity isolated fractal, if you're up to it! I realize you may not be able to find the time, but if you ever do, please consider that. I'd learn so much.
With financial i find i often just cottage over the whole super city and run specialists when i run out of titles to work(requires some food surplus). Works very well with expansive as you basically have unlimited happiness from HR. Madrid in that screen shot is sitting at 16/22 health. It could easily grow 4 more pop or something. In such super cities i find that i often cottage over grassland hills(you have not done that here) at least when playing financial. Specialists are nice and of course needed to get optimal economy however i don't often want to run them in my capital over cottages since raw beakers or gold don't get multiplied by burrecracy. 6 commerce from a village(or 7.5 with financial) is hard to compete with for a scientist when you can run them other places as well. Obviously you don't always have the luxury of having other high food spots and/or high production spots so you don't have much choice but often you do and then it is better to just run cottages(even if they are not riverside).
Basically beeline monarchy, when it hits just grow your super city and then never stop until you can't grow anymore. I tend to run mines in my capital in the early game as it is way better to get out settlers and workers, but once i get monarchy i often find myself cottaging up everyone. After monarchy, unless i have any other imeadiate needs(great library for example) bureaucracy is the next thing to aim for.
Basically beeline monarchy, when it hits just grow your super city and then never stop until you can't grow anymore. I tend to run mines in my capital in the early game as it is way better to get out settlers and workers, but once i get monarchy i often find myself cottaging up everyone. After monarchy, unless i have any other imeadiate needs(great library for example) bureaucracy is the next thing to aim for.
shyuhe
Deity
I just started playing from the start. I rarely play deity so I don't know how this is going to go...
Any advice appreciated!
Spoiler :
Any advice appreciated!
druidravi
King
Spoiler :
I'm going to keep on truckin' though.
Starting back at 4000 BC:
I need to expand quick, obviously. However I've found that this sets my research really far back if I expand quick and early. This makes it so that I can't research by myself to Literature for the Great Library quick enough. So I thought I would borrow an idea from Unconquered Sun from his Spain game. I am going to settle the marble city first (when I discover it of course; I'm trying to play this as authentically as possible). I'm going to beeline Masonry and then beeline Priesthood and build the Oracle and choose Metal Casting as the free tech.
This way I can expand without having to worry about researching higher cost techs such as Aesthetics. Instead I can trade Metal Casting around and then research Literature if necessary and then be ready to build the GL. I think this would put me in an overall stronger position than if I expanded slow and just worked my way to the GL (obviously). However I noticed while playing the last 2 times that Mehmed starts to build a stack early on. I don't know how I'm going to deal with this.
I almost feel like I'm cheating after restarting this one so many times..
Starting back at 4000 BC:
I need to expand quick, obviously. However I've found that this sets my research really far back if I expand quick and early. This makes it so that I can't research by myself to Literature for the Great Library quick enough. So I thought I would borrow an idea from Unconquered Sun from his Spain game. I am going to settle the marble city first (when I discover it of course; I'm trying to play this as authentically as possible). I'm going to beeline Masonry and then beeline Priesthood and build the Oracle and choose Metal Casting as the free tech.
This way I can expand without having to worry about researching higher cost techs such as Aesthetics. Instead I can trade Metal Casting around and then research Literature if necessary and then be ready to build the GL. I think this would put me in an overall stronger position than if I expanded slow and just worked my way to the GL (obviously). However I noticed while playing the last 2 times that Mehmed starts to build a stack early on. I don't know how I'm going to deal with this.
I almost feel like I'm cheating after restarting this one so many times..
I started to play a bit in this game to correct some common misunderstandings:
1. You have to have a big empire to keep up in research during mid-game on deity
2. You have to have at least 6 cities to have enough production to go to war on deity in mid-game
3. You need to draft to win a war on deity in mid-game
4. Industrious is a weak trait on deity
I not even tried to rex, only have built 3 cities and the two helper cities are placed bad for a long term strat, one settled on marble and one settled on the gold in the desert (but grabbing stone), and our empire is REALLY tiny. No cottages.
I can e-Mail the save up to this point to anybody interested for posting it here.
1. You have to have a big empire to keep up in research during mid-game on deity
2. You have to have at least 6 cities to have enough production to go to war on deity in mid-game
3. You need to draft to win a war on deity in mid-game
4. Industrious is a weak trait on deity
I not even tried to rex, only have built 3 cities and the two helper cities are placed bad for a long term strat, one settled on marble and one settled on the gold in the desert (but grabbing stone), and our empire is REALLY tiny. No cottages.
Spoiler :
I can e-Mail the save up to this point to anybody interested for posting it here.
The Rook
King
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 788
This thread is a fascinating read. I haven't played civ for more than a month, but I feel that I've learned so much just through reading about the various approaches to difficult positions. I'm pleasantly surprised to find such a wide range of strategic and diplomatic options are still viable at Deity.
No disrespect @homeyg, but I hope that you don't achieve your Deity win too soon, just so that this great thread can live on.
Inspiring stuff! It makes me eager to attempt the Deity challenge the next time I get chance to play.
No disrespect @homeyg, but I hope that you don't achieve your Deity win too soon, just so that this great thread can live on.
Inspiring stuff! It makes me eager to attempt the Deity challenge the next time I get chance to play.
silverbullet
King
I agree. This is one of my favourite threads here.
Question to Snaaty - how did you handle the diplomacy to avoid war in the early game?
I can see that you share religion with all your immediate neighbour. Was that enough to please everyone (maybe a few free techs as well), or did you have to bribe anyone into war?
Question to Snaaty - how did you handle the diplomacy to avoid war in the early game?
I can see that you share religion with all your immediate neighbour. Was that enough to please everyone (maybe a few free techs as well), or did you have to bribe anyone into war?
