Next Turn - 400bc

525bc - Phalanx production at Octavia's Point changed to archer.
Dellham starts settler.
IronCity (to be renamed by Ainwood) was founded and the phalanx rehomed there. Archer started.
Marl Downs IPRB $4 settler.
Elvis plays Castle Jayne and Marl Downs.

500bc - Found F3 (to be renamed) and start archer.

475bc - Elysium finishes temple and starts library. Warrior sent to Gabba Gabba.
Viking Exploratory Team (VET) leaves Dellham
NUF discover trade and start researching Horseback Riding (over Feudalism, Iron Working and Mapmaking).
Elvis plays Mordhiemia.

450bc - NUF population 500,000+
GG, LN and F3 change production to caravan.
Persians and Indians start Great Wall.


425bc - Civvium buillds Diplomat and starts NOTHING.
Elvis plays Dellham.
VET still nearer Dellham than any other town.



Gentlemen. In Celebration of the discovery of Trade, I shall grant you an extra day of discussion. Use it wisely! I play again Sunday after 1500GMT.

My Queen, our enemy are cowards. We will find them!

The Road to Regia Civitas is completed, and only one segment remains to connect Elysium. The people of Little Nemo thank you, My Queen, as do my wife and family.

We now understand TRADE, and have one city that could build anything, Civvium, which is already planned to be a Temple. Diplomat ready to move to ... where?   Caravan Plan?

400BC Status: 500,000 people in 14 cities. 174 gold, 30,00,70% F5 $19 -2, Sci 38 in 6 turns, researching HBR in about 3 turns. F11 Mfg=45, FS=5.3 Citizens, we are #1 in nearly everything that matters: Population, Manufacturing, Land Area and Productivity. But we have slipped to #2 in Family Size, perhaps due to 4 Entertainers. The Viking Advisors are quaking in their boots.

525BC Status: 410,000 people in 12 Cities. 98 gold, Tax relief 30,00,70% F5 $17 -1, Sci 35 in 6 turns, researching Trade in 2-3 turns. F11 Mfg=40, FS=6.8 ! Citizens, this is a Terrific improvement in Manufacturing. We are AGAIN #1 in Population, Manufacturing, Land Area, Family Size and Productivity.

Researching Horse Back Riding (for Monotheism), known: Alphabet, Bronze, CBurial, CodeLaws, Currency, Literacy, Monarchy, Mysticism, Philosophy, Pottery, Trade, WarriorCode and Writing.

We have 2 Temples. Our Library of Regia Civitas is 60/80 due in 3 turns (moving Serfs from Ocean to Road) and our Library of Elysium is 15/80, due in 13 turns, fewer if IPRB=40 at some point.

We are constructing 6 Settlers, 3 Caravans, 2 Archers, 2 Libraries and 1 Temple (Civvium). Perhaps we need more balance betwen Settlers and Archers?

Regia Civitas needs a third guard in 3 turns to continue celebrating. Then, what to build? Settler?

Reneaux Settlers in 1 turn, Octavia's Point Archers in 3 turns, Mordhiemia Settlers in 2-3 turns. We are about to found G2NE.
TFalls will complete its Settlers in 3-4 turns, Marl Downs IPRB=$2 Settlers in 5, Iron City spare Archers in 5 turns. We could begin to spend $IPRB smoothly to accelerate Caravans, and also boost the Elysium Library.

My regular City Details might be posted within 12 hours or so...

Faq: 30,00,70%: F5 $18 -2, Sci 39 * 6 turns, Mfg=45, FS=5.3

No Content people, Black Dudes in Civvium & Gabba Gabba.

* Regia Civitas: 14 trade, 4 tax & 10 beakers, 7 shields
    Move RC Serf from Ocean to Road
    2 guards, size=4 grows in 2 turns, then stops WLTK.
* Elysium, w Road 13 trade, 3 corruption, 4 tax & 9 beakers, 5 shields
    Phx & Legion, size=3 grows in 23. Needs Road to grow.
* Dellham, 3 trade (4-1), 1 tax & 2 beakers, 3 shields
    2 guards+Elvis, size=2 grows in 1, Major Problem
* Reneaux, Settlers in 1, shall we max Science or Growth? Serf plan?
* Mordhiemia, Settlers in 3, Move Forest serf to new road

Aonia Cities:

* Regia Civitas: Library (60/80) in 3 (20/7), grows in 2!!!
* Elysium: 15/80 Library in 13, grows in 23
* TFalls: 30/40 of Settler in 3, Serf to Forest
* Little Nemo: 15/50 of Caravan, Settler in 9 turns recommended.
* Gabba Gabba: 18/50 of Caravan in ... 12 turns
    Must move Warrior OUT to avoid riot
* F3: 12/50 of Caravan in 11, Worker to Forest in 2 or so...
* Civvium: 0/40 of Temple in 9, Size 1 grows in 1,
    Must move Warrior OUT to avoid riot

Northern Cities:

* Iron City w Phx, 15/30 of Archer in 5, grows in 5
* Dellham: 19/40 of Settler? Major Problem
    Suggest Whale serf to Plains River...
* Reneaux: working Oasis and River, 3 trade (1+2),
    building 39/40 Settlers w Elvis in 1 turn
* Marl Downs w Elvis: 29/40 of Settler, IPRB $2, Settler in 5
* Mordhiemia w Elvis: 31/40 Settler in 3
* Octavia's Point, Archer (23/30) in 3
* Castle Jayne, 20/40 of Settlers in 10, grows in 8...

A rather uneventful 100 years. Nonetheless, we must watch for the Viking swine. I have a fear that they are located near Ainwood.

Otherwise, I'm out of stuff to say. Watch out for the next Fanatical, due out around Friday.

F3 & Civvium supply Wine and Silver, demanded by Regia Civitas.
Elysium demands Wine.
So, F3 could build Wine, ReHome it in RC, and deliver to Elysium!

Civvium to build a Temple (9 turns), then a Settler.

Caravan plan sounds great! I would not be in favor of switching any caravan builds to something else unless urgently needed. We want to establish good trade routes as soon as possible, and also start stockpiling food caravans to build Cops in Elysium sometime in the hopefully not too distant future. Minimum troops for defense (including pre-emptive strikes at all on our continent), minimum city improvements to ensure happy people and continued growth, and build as many caravans as the above will allow. That should be our priority for the time being, IMHO.

Don't know if I'll get a chance to check the save game tonight. Do RC and Elysium have Market places? That would increase gold AND the trade received from trade routes. If both have market place will increase the payoff from establishing a route between them as well.

Leowind, we just discovered Currency & Trade last turn!. We have 2 temples, are building 2 Libraries. You and Rout want everything yesterday! I am talking about Trade Caravan #1.

And where to $spend? IRPB Caravan production, or save to subvert Viking cities?

There is some question about the best Road Path for max cavavan trade results...

If we want max caravan trade results, then, generally speaking, deliver them to the AI. Otherwise we would need to compute the road path for each trade route since it will differ for each route depending upon the cities it is running between.

It's much easier and quicker to do deliveries to another continent and it pays more.

Originally posted by GaryNemo
Leowind, we just discovered Currency & Trade last turn!. We have 2 temples, are building 2 Libraries. You and Rout want everything yesterday!

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Of course

I am talking about Trade Caravan #1.

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And I'm talking about caravan #s 2,3... I think we have three in production currently, and somebody had suggested changing one of them. I"m just arguing against that unless vitally necessary.

And where to $spend? IRPB Caravan production, or save to subvert Viking cities?

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Save for subverting Viking cities at the moment would be my recommendation. Can anyone with more experience estimate how much we might need to subvert a couple (just in case) Viking cities on our continent? That would give us a minimum cash reserve to maintain.

There is some question about the best Road Path for max cavavan trade results...

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I have never bothered to figure out road paths. Duke O'Ms point below makes some sense, but does us little good until we get Map Making. Good domestic routes to Elysium at least to begin is needed. Do we gain that much from the *correct* road route in this early stage for it to be worth a settler's time to road several squares we wouldn't otherwise need to road?

50% bonus for the 'correct' road path. 100% if on a different continent. 100% bonus if delivered to an AI city.

Trade Bonus Details

I think the need to establish trade routes should be support for map making to be be done quickly.

I suggested change one of the 3 Caravans to a Settler. Otherwise LN will also hire Elvis, that will be Elvis #5. I wonder how many they have?

Current LN Settler should immediately Road and Found F4, on Forest 3 NW of RC. LN should be building another settler, then another ... F4 can build your Caravan. Other cities need Temples. Dellham is a crisis. Look at that in the sav file.

I'm thinking of polling like this:

Keep tax rate 30,00,70% Max Science?

Move RC serf from Ocean to Road, to finish Library in 3 turns

In 2 turns, hire Elvis at the capital to keep Celebrating.
In 2 turns, hire Elvis, build another guard after Library.
In 2 turns, RC will grow and stop Celebrating. Ho humm.

Little Nemo, change to produce a Settler in 9
Little Nemo, continue Caravan in 12, productivity doesn't matter

LN Settler, build the one Road, Found F4 on Forest 3NW of RC.
LN Settler, keep building roads.

F3 is building Wine Caravan, Trade from RC to Elysium

In 2 turns, F3 has 6 food, freeze onto Forest.

Send Civvium Diplomat North

Civvium to build a Temple in 9 turns as planned

I understand the Black Dudes in Civvium and Gabba Gabba.

Home Gabba Gabba Warrior, send it North, it is useless as Police.

TFalls Settler, one more road then send North. See my post.

I have a suggestion for Dellham. See my post.

Give us a poll, any poll, to name F3.

Originally posted by GaryNemo
Home Gabba Gabba Warrior, send it North, it is useless as Police.

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True, but not true.

By itself, it won't do anything, but if we get another unit in there, together, they will then keep the peace.

So he can wander, but I wouldn't make him leave permantley. Eventually we will nedd to get another unit in there or build a temple. Then the warrior can be used for control.

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
50% bonus for the 'correct' road path.
I think the need to establish trade routes should be support for map making to be be done quickly.

Click to expand...

The correct road path is the one that a unit on GoTo takes between two cities. Sometimes working this out means that the unit will get stuck, as they can tend to do on GoTo, and often it means building a road across terrain that you wouldn't normally bother to until railroads are available. Even so, I think we should deliver the wine caravan to Elysium as soon as possible so that we get extra trade arrows for the city. We'll still get a bonus, but not as large as it would be from overseas, and we can benefit more from extra arrows each turn in the long run.
I'd like LN to build a settler as this will reduce the unhappiness. I don't think it's got too many forest squares that we can use to slow down the growth to ensure that it can churn out caravans without going into disorder all the time. I presume that it already has one red person since we wouldn't need to use Elvis for the next with our HG happy chappy.

Originally posted by Jayne

IronCity (to be renamed by Ainwood) was founded and the phalanx rehomed there. Archer started.

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Well, I'm back and am finally starting to catch up on all that has gone before. Quite a task in itself!

Firstly, the name. I forsee that this will become a great military town; the town that will launch a thousand ships It needs a name that reflects this, and will strike fear into the hearts of the enemy as they cower in the dark, and only dare to whisper the name lest they be struck down.

Unfortunately, Danderfluff is in line for use elsewhere!


My first pick is Legendary City

If that's too long, go for The Clave.

The correct road path for 50% trade bonus

There have been posts by Starlifter at the beginning of this DG or in the last DG on that topic. He explained the roads needed very thoroughly and even put some pictures in! If no one else finds these posts, I will look for them once I get around.

Gary, I think you should include the option "Found F4 at all, Yes or No" into the poll!

I'm not moving until Sunday 1600GMT, but before then can Advisors/Governers please post in this thread and not the usual Next Turn Plan.


Governer Serutan is away, but his province still needs attention. Could someone perhaps lead a discussion on what to do in Boreum. My main question is what to build next in Reneaux. It was decided to build an archer next before the previous turn, but only 3 people voted! Is everyone happy with this?

If you intend to look at this for me, post here first - then off you go!!

Sorry, things got unexepectedly hectic the last couple of
days. I will be able to post a discussion and/or poll tonight.

If Starlifter's post can be found, then this route can be checked for correctness.

RC-Elysium trade routes notes:
We can receive a road bonus for one of the routes by building a Hides caravan (demanded by RC) in GG, rehoming in Elysium, and sending it to RC. Building road on the plains N of Little Nemo will finish the route. Presently, each trade route started between RC and Elysium should add 4 trade arrows to both cities.

*** Special Notice *** I will be away on business October 21 – 24. I should be able to post Chryshe Province business here before the next move.

Originally posted by duke o' york
The correct road path is the one that a unit on GoTo takes between two cities.

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Yes and no. It is the path the unit will take using the GoTo command assuming there are no terrain modifications (roads) and no rivers in between the two cities. If there are any road improvements or rivers, the computer sometimes utilizes them in moving units with the GoTo Command. But, that may not be the 'correct' caravan delivery path.