Delayed industrialization ?

TheViking

The world is not enough
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Way back I vaguely remember reading about a strategy that involved delaying researching industrialization IIRC in order to maximize trade/science by 'caravan-bombing' the other civs (discovering automobile for superhighways was important as well as having the Colossus). Does anyone remember seeing a description of a strategy like this ? I think it was not a thread here but rather some kind of a 'strategy document' but I can't find it ?? I don't remember if I found it here or over at Apolyton (probably here). The author may have been Andu Indorin but I'm not sure.

Can anyone who remembers this post a link to this stuff ? I'm interested in experimenting with it after a spectacularly successful 'caravan bombing strategy' that I used recently.
 
In the spoiler for GOTM23 we were discussing delaying Indust in order to minimize the number of techs between that and Miniaturization so that we kept getting shields from ocean squares as much as possible (from KingRich). You cannot delay Indust and get Auto - Auto requires Steel, which requires Indust, as well as Combust, which requires Refine, which requires Corp, which requires Indust too. I don't understand how delaying Indust helps maximize Trade; getting Corp right after it actually increases Trade bonus payoffs. I've heard of "tech-bombing", but not "caravan-bombing"...
 
IIRC, Trade takes a hit with the combo of Nav & Inv; takes another hit with RR; recovers with Corp, and can gain “direct” road and “direct” RR connections and with airports. Superhighways help add arrows for land rich cities, so that has value in the late game. Shipping goods to foreign lands (especially overseas) has value & the payoffs can be large if trade is conducted over great distances with preferably demanded goods. Rehoming via a Large city (especially an SSC) may be the way to go to collect large bonuses which benefit the science accumulation as well as the coffers.

Some might say that caravan bombing IS tech bombong…
 
Originally posted by funxus
I thought tech-bombing was when you gave a lot of techs to a civ so that their rate of discoveries increases a lot.

Yep.

Maybe Caravan Bombing is delivering lots of caravans so that you get more science for new techs, then give those techs to the other Civs. So, maybe Caravan Bombing leads to tech bombing?

Never really heard of caravan bombing myself....
 
Lets get back to delaying Industrialization. I found in several Gotm's that I could conquor the world without Industrialization. That way I avoided pollution, and so increased my Gotm score. Many caravans to speed my science, and to help my cities to celebrate, and for the gold to buy Aquaducts and Sewers. Democracy using only Bach's, never bothered with Railroad or Industrialization, no Corporation, no Cure for Cancer, no Woman's Suffrage. A bit odd compared to the way I used to play.

Engineers, Bach, Democracy, Trade Caravans, Refrigeration, but no Pollution.
 
TheViking: What's a "caravan bombing strategy"?

I think you're looking for my discussion, Modernization as Strategy, which I appended to my Annales of Rome timeline. The discussion is a bit dated, as my "strategy" of modernization has evolved somewhat, and in particular, substituting Refrigeration for Railroad in the early Modern Triad so as to maximize the value of Caravans and the bonuses of the Hanging Gardens.

In a nut shell, the reasons for delaying industrialization are: (1) The economy of scale after industrialization is signicantly larger than the preindustrial era, with WoW's costing 600 shields, and most improvements 160+ shields. I consider it important to ensure that the core of my civilization is capable of handling the transition to this new economy of scale. (2) Industrialization without Combustion leads to none of the Modern (i.e., fun) units of offensive warfare. Consequently, early industrialization can get you into the demands of the new economy of scale with none of the immediate military benefits. (3) The Railroad and Industrialization seem to act as a "trigger" for the AI civilizations to ally, mutually orient their research programs, aggressively hunt you with diplomats looking for technology, and -- given any pretext -- go to war with you. This can prove to be a further strain on an insufficiently developed economy.

Instead of immediately pursuing the Railroad and Industrialization, once I have achieved Explosives, Democracy, and Refrigeration, I throttle back on scientific research in favor of luxuries for WLKD and taxation for the income to expand the foundations of the Power Democracy (by rush building Marketplaces, Banks, SEs), as well as rush building Engineers (for the rapid construction of RRs) and "quality" Caravans (which will transform into Freight via Leonardo's Workshop). In essense, I am "priming" my civilization for what W.W. Rostow called the "take off" phase of the Modernization process.

Once the core of my civilization -- usually 16 to 24 cities -- has been fully developed into the engine of a Power Democracy, I finally get the Railroad -- often while the AI civs are still researching the Steam Engine. The next turn, I get Industrialization via research from my Global Trade/Super Science City, and Corporation and Communism via Darwin's Voyage. Thus -- and this is one principal of the benefits of the Modernization schema -- I suffer the 33% loss of trade value from the discovery of the railroad for only one turn before getting the 50% increase for having all of my caravans upgraded to freight; it is always good to maximize one's profits from establishing trade routes! Once I have the corporation, I usually maintain a rate of two techs per turn (one via trade, one via research) until at least the Automobile and Superhighways to further boost the benefits of trade. By this point in the game, my Power Democracy is in a position to pursue various lines of development, whether it be direct military conquest (via the rush-building of a modern military), global expansion (via the rush-building of hordes of engineers), or the rapid launching of the Space Ship. With the ability to use Freight units for one advance per turn, and to research a second (and third, after SETI) advance per turn if desired, the AI civilizations have no chance of competing.

It is interesting to note that these days, I never mine hills and mountains, and rarely bother to build factories until Solar Plants are available; I just purchase my military with all the money I make from Trade and taxes.

Hope you find this helpful.
 
Originally posted by Andu Indorin
TheViking: What's a "caravan bombing strategy"?

I think you're looking for my discussion, Modernization as Strategy, which I appended to my Annales of Rome timeline.
Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for - thanks. I had completely forgotten that it was appended to something else so I couldn't find it.

"Caravan bombing strategy": I didn't know what to call it and it probably has been called something else (?). What happened some time ago is that I happened to have lots of caravans. Instead of using many of them to build wonders I sent lots of them to a relatively nearby AI civ overseas (the "caravan bomb"). Because of this I got huge delivery bonuses and in just a few turns I discovered about 10 techs and was swimming in cash. This I used to build some infrastructure and also to build a relatively compact but modern army, including many spies. I then sent this army to the same AI civ (which was reasonably big) and destroyed it in about 2-3 turns: Captured the capital and 2-3 cities and bribed and subverted (#&%$}% senate) the remaining cities since I had thousands of gold by then. This was the first time I did something like this on such a large scale (I used to be a big fan of using brute force rather than cash). Needless to say I was in democracy.

Now I'm trying to develop an even more effective strategy by combining a few ideas but it's far from perfected yet.
 
"Bombing" seems the wrong term: you are doing them no "harm", as you would with tech-bombing, for instance. "Swarming" might be a better term, or "Cash and Trash"...
 
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