Culture Victory on King Issues...

R

rover6695

Prince
Joined
Aug 5, 2014
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437
Few random things:

1) I'm playing for a culture win, standard map, king. It's well into the mid 400s and I still have not won, I'm having trouble with Spain and Sweeden. I still haven't discovered stealth bombers...now since this was culture not science, I did not until far far later choose any rationalism policies.
I did tradition>aethtics then choose a few mix of exploration/patronage than ideology and only then back to rationalism.

I'm wondering if this was my mistake....if you should ALWAYS take rationalsim as soon as you finish tradition or it is available.

2) Is Sweeden always a warmongering pain in the ass bully? I would have warred with him sooner but I did not want it strain my resources, so instead he took over one Civ (Iceland) on his continent, settled on the west side of my continent and took over most of Russia.
Again, I stayed out of it as my miliatary is 3rd best and wanted to focus on other things. Mistake?
 
Sometimes the AI actually produce enough culture to not be overwhelmed by tourism easily. Othertimes, it could be just because you don't have enough artifacts to swamp the world with tourism. Going to a war or two can rectify the artifact shortage situation. Aim for those stupid cultural AIs who only have two or four cities but alot of artifacts. They never have enough military.

Next possible solution is to go to war against the AIs that resist your culture. As you take their cities, their culture production will fall below your tourism production. I don't really find Rationalism necessary because all you need to is go tall early then wide to bring in all those artifacts.

As for all my cultural victories, I was always a warmongering autocrat. Set up that international game at perfect time and it will give you monster amounts of tourism combined with Cult of Personality = everyone thinks you are one magnificent bastard.

If Spain + Sweden is at war against someone, declare war on that target too and you will boost tourism to Spain Sweden, and if they don't want it, they have to make peace. lol
 
Winning cultural at King should be easy peasy but the key is to beeline the techs in the upper part of the tree that give you hotels, National Visiter Centre and finally Internet.

And yes you need science to get you there so open Rationalism and get those three science increasing policies to get you there faster.

Also save your later scientists to bulb the expensive later techs.
 
I'm a little confused by the OP's stated goals. If you are going for a cultural victory, why did you think that stealth bombers were the key? I disagree with some others that rationalism is a MUST in every game. At King, you can definitely get away with it for a cultural victory. But if you were unable to get key cultural wonders because you fell behind in tech, there might be other facets of your game that could be improved. Taking rationalism is not the fix-everything solution. I agree with Mahasona that you need to focus on the top of the tech tree towards the internet instead of the bottom towards stealth, but I disagree with him that rationalism is a must.

If, as I suspect, the problem isn't just not taking rationalism, answer these questions:
1. How's your growth? If you opened with tradition, some Civ players have cities in the 30s by turn 250. Are you on that pace? Could you improve that more?
2. Are you building your science buildings ASAP? This is more important for good science output than taking rationalism.
3. Are you getting archaeologists out and stockpiling artifacts in your museums?
4. Did you compete for the cultural wonders? Most important in my opinion are (in order) the Sistine Chapel, Leaning Tower, Eiffel, and Louvre.
5. Are you working your guilds non-stop? Did you maximize your output by putting the guilds in cities with a garden / national epic? (Some players suggest not building your musician's guild until late but that's not necessary.)
6. Did you maximize your tourism with Spain and Sweden by securing trade routes, obtaining open borders, diplomats, shared religion, etc.?
7. After all that, if you win the international games after teching the internet, your tourism could well be over 1000 per turn. That's when you get a bunch of great musicians (did you save up your faith?) and go bomb Spain and Sweden with concert tours. A few of those should win you the game without any stealth bombers.
 
Hmm, considering you play on kings, you shouldnt have any trouble going for a Culture Victory.

First, science is kinda always the key. Reaching techs for key wonders first often equals in successfully building those. For a CV, Leaning Tower of Pisae is a really great one, Sistine Chapel even just for the sake of not having an AI using it for culture defense, Uffisi, and Eiffel Tower.

So, you need to play the science game hard at first. So dont hesitate to go for rationalism, even if that means postpawning some policies from aesthetics. Tbh, many of those policies are far from mandatory for a cultural victory and can be taken late. What you need most is the opener and the one that fastens the construction of cultural building.

Obviously, demography is also a priority. Again because pop = science. And also because you need to lock your science and cultural specialists in the guilds\buildings 100% of the time.

Also, science will get you to the internet faster and that will usually be the final blow to your enemies culture.

So yeah, for a cultural victory science is key, just like for anything in CiV.
 
fyar said:
I'm a little confused by the OP's stated goals. If you are going for a cultural victory, why did you think that stealth bombers were the key? I disagree with some others that rationalism is a MUST in every game. At King, you can definitely get away with it for a cultural victory. But if you were unable to get key cultural wonders because you fell behind in tech, there might be other facets of your game that could be improved. Taking rationalism is not the fix-everything solution. I agree with Mahasona that you need to focus on the top of the tech tree towards the internet instead of the bottom towards stealth, but I disagree with him that rationalism is a must.

If, as I suspect, the problem isn't just not taking rationalism, answer these questions:
1. How's your growth? If you opened with tradition, some Civ players have cities in the 30s by turn 250. Are you on that pace? Could you improve that more?
Well right on turn 436 my 4 founded cities have 35 (capital)/34/28/26 and my one conquered city has 15....I did have to a few times stop all growth when happiness was an issue earlier in the game. This actually has been a problem, in the first part of the game (before turn 125) once I become powerful with alliances to CS, happiness.

2. Are you building your science buildings ASAP? This is more important for good science output than taking rationalism.
They were built quickly, but sometimes I waited a little

3. Are you getting archaeologists out and stockpiling artifacts in your museums?
Current status on turn 436...19 antiquity sites left (of which 13 are hidden)....I have taken in at least 7, I'm unsure though as it is hard to tell which artifacts vs great works of art vs traded great works of are

4. Did you compete for the cultural wonders? Most important in my opinion are (in order) the Sistine Chapel, Leaning Tower, Eiffel, and Louvre.
I have the Sistine Chapel, Louvre, Sydney Opera House, and Broadway with theming bonuses for all.


5. Are you working your guilds non-stop? Did you maximize your output by putting the guilds in cities with a garden / national epic? (Some players suggest not building your musician's guild until late but that's not necessary.)
Yes.....artist guild in capital....writers and musician guild in city with garden

6. Did you maximize your tourism with Spain and Sweden by securing trade routes, obtaining open borders, diplomats, shared religion, etc.?
I have trade routes, but no shared religion and no longer have open borders (and they will NOT give it to me). I do have diplomats in both

7. After all that, if you win the international games after teching the internet, your tourism could well be over 1000 per turn. That's when you get a bunch of great musicians (did you save up your faith?) and go bomb Spain and Sweden with concert tours. A few of those should win you the game without any stealth bombers.
Click to expand...
I got the internet, and built the great firewall. I came in second place in both the World Fair and IG to Spain.
Right now I am at:
189% influence over Belgium, 353% Soviet Union, 128% Inca, 56.6% Sweden and Spain, 22% Iceland (but Iceland is out of the game, having been conquered by Sweded so do they even count)?

It will take 46 turns to get influential over Spain and 58 with Sweden.

Check out the print screen shot....I am the Civ in white....Sweden is blue...Spain is burgundy (not RED, that is the Soviet Union).

Sweden settled on the far far side of my content....took over most of the Soviet Union (including the capital).
Spain is on a far different continent, and took over most of Austria-Hungry.

What's the best course of action?
I was thinking maybe going to war with Sweden, liberating the rest of the Soviet Union, culture bombing Sweden with GMs while at war (can you do this when at war) and kicking him off my continent.....then trying to liberate at least Iceland's capital....and take his capital...I have nukes.....then if still needing Spain make peace with Sweden and go to war with Spain, focusing on liberating Austria Hungry's conquered cities and sending a GM to culture bomb.
 
Are you playing standard speed? If so you are a little late with some milestones, particularly not having all your museums filled with artifacts by turn 436. Your cities also feel kind of small also, are you using the internal food trade routes to grow them?

I see that you also have some mods (Iceland, USSR), do they affect the gameplay mechanics? Maybe something in the mods is making cultural victory harder than usual.
 
Have you musician bombed anyone yet? Save up faith, buy some musicians, sail them over then drop the tourism bomb.

Taking some of their cities will reduce their culture to allow your tourism to surpass them.

Also military demographics are meaningless with the AI, I often have the 7th or 8th military, and go to war with the top AI and smash them because the AI is simply so damn terrible at actually using its military. So if your third you should just be able to steam roll them.
 
Illianor123 said:
Have you musician bombed anyone yet? Save up faith, buy some musicians, sail them over then drop the tourism bomb.

Taking some of their cities will reduce their culture to allow your tourism to surpass them.

Also military demographics are meaningless with the AI, I often have the 7th or 8th military, and go to war with the top AI and smash them because the AI is simply so damn terrible at actually using its military. So if your third you should just be able to steam roll them.
Click to expand...

The Top AI's points generally all come from world wonders they spam. Its rare that top AI have good military.
 
claudiupb said:
Are you playing standard speed? If so you are a little late with some milestones, particularly not having all your museums filled with artifacts by turn 436. Your cities also feel kind of small also, are you using the internal food trade routes to grow them?

I see that you also have some mods (Iceland, USSR), do they affect the gameplay mechanics? Maybe something in the mods is making cultural victory harder than usual.
Click to expand...
-No internal food routes....I think the cities might be small because I had to stop growth several times earlier in the game and/or switch to production focus.
-This is also my first full game in well over a year
-I did not fill all my museums with artifacts...there are only 19 left...13 of which I do not know the location....I'm thinking at this stage of the game it is not a big deal

Illianor123 said:
Have you musician bombed anyone yet? Save up faith, buy some musicians, sail them over then drop the tourism bomb.

Taking some of their cities will reduce their culture to allow your tourism to surpass them.

Also military demographics are meaningless with the AI, I often have the 7th or 8th military, and go to war with the top AI and smash them because the AI is simply so damn terrible at actually using its military. So if your third you should just be able to steam roll them.
Click to expand...
What if the other civ will not give me open borders? How can I musician bomb?
Should I declare war, then musician bomb?
Also, is it best to 10 turns worth or regular?
 
You should never have to stop the growth of your cities under Tradition. Growth should be your top priority in the early to mid game, and that means making sure you have the happiness to keep growing. Make sure you found your cities close to one or preferably two unique luxuries. Build circuses and stone works when possible and other happiness buildings as needed. Use religious buildings and beliefs for happiness boosts if needed. Use internal trade routes to boost population early. Internal trade is much more valuable in the early game than trading with a CS or neighbors. You need your founded cities to have heathy populations. Higher population means more science, which means getting tech faster for the wonders you need later in the game. It means more production to win world's fair and international games. Tradition offers excellent happiness boosts, and you really shouldn't ever have to worry about halting growth because of unhappiness.
 
I tend to try and expand with as many cities as quickly as I can so I get the territory.
I usually skip internal trade routes as I have viewed that as cannabilism.
 
Internal trade routes don't steal food or production from one city to give to another. It is a flat bonus to the destination city.
 
I thought it took food from city x and gave it to city y?

On a separate note, WOW....I had no clue how great GMs were.
It was going to take 68 turns for me to be influential with Sweden, I did TWO tours and am at 98%!
 
Internal routes aren't really "trading" food from one city to another. If City X is producing 20 food and City Y is producing 15 food, and you send a food caravan from City X to City Y, City X will still produce 20 food, and City Y will be at 19. City X does not lose four food.
 
I cant see the specifics why its so hard in that King game and lock up that culture vic, but I can tell that indeed if you did not open Rationalism ASAP, its a mistake. There is tons of science available in that tree, no matter what is your vic path, it's needed. In that particular case, it would allowed you to build the hotels and airports, and Wwonders, Nwonders earlier... among other things. Open Internet earlier aswel. All that will make a huge difference in the long run.
 
SoonerJBD said:
Internal routes aren't really "trading" food from one city to another. If City X is producing 20 food and City Y is producing 15 food, and you send a food caravan from City X to City Y, City X will still produce 20 food, and City Y will be at 19. City X does not lose four food.
Click to expand...

I thought if X has 15 food and Y has 15 food...if x sends 4 food to Y....then Y has 19...and X has 11?
 
KingKong76 said:
I cant see the specifics why its so hard in that King game and lock up that culture vic, but I can tell that indeed if you did not open Rationalism ASAP, its a mistake. There is tons of science available in that tree, no matter what is your vic path, it's needed. In that particular case, it would allowed you to build the hotels and airports, and Wwonders, Nwonders earlier... among other things. Open Internet earlier aswel. All that will make a huge difference in the long run.
Click to expand...

Yep...I took over a year off from civ and man, there are a lot of details you miss.
No question rationalism helps, as do GMs.

1 Q:

1) Is it better to just save all the GMs and never expend them UNLESS you have a wonder with a theme (like Broadway)?
-When is the time to begin concern tours?
 
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