The last thing I want my parenthetical note to do is start a huge EQ2 vs. WoW debate in a thread about Diablo 3. You guys wanna slug that out, start a new thread and have your battle royale over there, out of respect for the folks discussing D3 in this one. Thanks.
Thoughts on Diablo III?
- Thread starter Thormodr
- Start date
Wolfbeckett
Jerkin' and nonsense.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
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- 2,682
What gameplay changes are those? I haven't been keeping up on all the updates, so maybe there's something I'm going to be less-than-thrilled about as well.
I've already laid them out earlier in the thread, and I don't want to retread the argument, so without going into too many details, I'll just say that I am very unhappy about the "streamlining" being done by removing stat and skill points. I like min/maxing, it's fun to me, I want my games to have MORE complicated numbers, not less.
Akka
Moody old mage.
Man, that's wishful thinking on a cosmic level here. Are you even believing this farce yourself ?
We both know that such argument is a pile of junk. It doesn't add anything to the game, it's just a shameful way to grab money.
It's as ridiculous as arguing "people are going to cheat anyway, so don't bother to fix cheating exploits !".
That's, as above, a ridiculous argument full of bad faith and/or wishful thinking. Any game that not only has a strong multiplayer component, but push so hard toward multiplayer (gratz abusive DRM forcing a permanent connection), will have an EXTREMELY different feel and ambiance with such a "get items for money" scheme.
Also, it's just extreme naïveté to imagine that such a design decision won't affect anything else in the game - in order to encourage people to use this system.
Seriously, I don't know what you imagine a design process is or what the game dynamics and philosophy are, but it's certainly completely disconnected from reality.
Yeah yeah, just put your head in the sand and claim there is no sun.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Yeah, I dont talk crap about a game company until they ACTUALLY let me down.
The argument isnt a pile of junk, and fwiw, who are you to determine whats 'shameful' here and what isnt?
Is Blizz a company that desires to make a profit for its investors?
Yes?
So whats wrong with taking a situation like this, controlling it, and taking a small percentage of it for hosting the service?
Why is that considered shameful at all?
And fwiw, your comparison of this to cheaters falls flat right off the bat. Lots of games have been ruined by cheaters/hackers, but not by providing a service to transfer items for monetary value. In game economies are generally a good thing, not something 'shameful'.
Its not bad faith, nor wishful thinking (yet). It remains a fact that you can still play the game single player or with a group of friends, enjoy its entire content, and not have anything to do with the PvP component of the game. But as in all games of this nature, if you want to be competivitve in PvP you either put in exhaustive amounts of time into it, or large amounts of cash. But its your choice to do either of those, or none at all.
Blizz cant make me buy something I dont want. Sorry.
Perhaps its the fact I actually have a backbone and can say 'no' to that GreatSword of the Whale on sale for 10 bucks. If you dont have that capacity, then caveat emptor.
I'll just consider the source on that, since I happen to know a few folks in the business, and my youngest daughter is grooming herself to work for Bungie, Valve or one of the other local gaming companies up here in the NW.
Boy, you do get really irritated if people dont see things your way dont ya?
Again, I stand on my point. Blizzard as a company has been putting out high quality games for more than the last 20 years. Could they be taking some chances in the changes they are making for D3? Absolutely. But given their track record, I'm more than willing to get them the benefit of the doubt before I just dismiss what they are talking about as if the sky is falling.
Herfelt
Chieftain
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- 72
I cant really make up my mind. Obviously Diablo III needs some kind of trading system, but I really dont like the idea of being able to extract money from the game. Correct me if Im wrong, but I dont think that trading forum-gold -> real cash is possible at d2jsp.
But I prefer Blizzard "controlling" the economy rather than some third part community.
Im going to buy the game, play it, but Im not going to "waste" my money on in-game-items.
But I prefer Blizzard "controlling" the economy rather than some third part community.
Im going to buy the game, play it, but Im not going to "waste" my money on in-game-items.
Oh, okay, those changes. That's all I was asking, not a big in-depth review, just wondering which specific changes bothered you.
Yeah, I'm not wild about those changes either. I like having control of my characters' development.
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
Always online DRM? Lolnothx. I'm not even that interested in D3 anyway. I've never bought a Blizzard game and that doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. 
Akka
Moody old mage.
Because what has done Blizzard up till now doesn't let you down ?
They dumb WoW beyond death, they claim "Steam is bad because it's abusive DRM" just weeks before putting the exact same kind of DRM into their own game, they try to push their RealID crap down our throat and only backpedal because of the colossal uproar (and the threat of legal action in countries where it isn't actually a joke to f... around with personal informations), they plan to put real-money auction houses in the game, and you still consider they haven't let down gamers ?
Are you totally blind or have you Facebook-like standards for games ?
So what, because they are a company anything is okay ? Everything is acceptable if it aims to increase benefits ?
Man, are you someone who play their game or someone who look after their stock-options ? I for sure respect more someone who doesn't forget his artistic integrity just because he wants to improve his sales, but it seems that people are just bent on acting cynical, even if it bite them back...
If you don't even see how crappy it is to make real-money enters the realm of in-game situations, I guess you're just a lost cause.
GoodGame
Red, White, & Blue, baby!
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2004
- Messages
- 13,725
It's all anonymous as far as any player knows, so accept that Blizzard employees are probably going to try and sell you these micro-items, not grandma.
So I did have my facts straight!!!Also, you are presuming that the system will be profitable for players to sell. I am skeptical of that point. Given a free-market system, I'm confident that a corporation would exploit that house to sell individual players at a free market rate. In a way it's genius. It's the next level of microtransactions, to take items from a flat purchase rate to a free market auction house, where you limit the availability of an item to players to an exact number, and then charge as much money as the player is willing to bid for the item.
True Capitalist Genius. And not worth my time frankly.
Thrawn
Emperor
I'm actually perfectly fine with RealID as an overall concept. It allows me to talk to friends while in game across servers and across blizzard games.
The displaying real names on official forums was the part that had the massive uproar, not real id overall.
I don't think there's any question that D3 is going to be highly successful, and I'd be willing to wager $1,000,000 (if I had that much
) that the RMAH is not going to be a big deal. I'd also wager that micro transactions are where any kind of online game is eventually going to be headed, whether you like it or not.I went to a presentation last week by the head of a local game dev company here that does facebook/mobile games, and he talked about the funnel effect on free to play games. (Which, outside the initial purchase, is basically what D3 is). Basically what it came down to was that out of the total numbers of people who play your game, only a very small amount actually really get into spending money on it. While obviously things are a little different between fb/mobile games and D3, I think the same concept will apply though.
I also wish people would stop confusing Activision with Blizzard. They're entirely separate companies, and I wonder if people even realise that blizzard hasn't owned itself since the very early days, yet they've always been autonomous.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Very well said. Bravo.
I dont claim to pretend how 'gamers' et al, feel. I can only speak for myself, and Blizzard hasnt let me down. I got great enjoyment and value out of Playing WoW as long as I did....the DRM thing doesnt bother me as I am online 24/7 anyway with a rock solid connection....the RMAH doesnt bother me as I can choose to dabble in that or not.....
So, no, I can fully say that every Blizz game I have owned for the last 20 years has not only met my expectations, but greatly exceeded them, and their franchises have given me endless hours of enjoyment.
I mean really, I think its pretty sad that you get this upset....over a video game thats going to cost about 50 bucks or so.
Wow, Akka, more insults? Is that all you got?
No, actually, I probably have a library of games that would put yours to shame. I'm not stingy and dont mind spending a few bucks on a game just to try it out as long as I think its good value.
But I love the fact that you apparently think if people dont see things your way then they apparently can only play something like Farmville. Very telling.
No. But this isnt criminal either. The way you cry about it you would think a felony being committed.
Now wait a second...are you complaining about a lack of artistic integrity.....in a Blizzard game?
Seriously?
Amazing.
Actually, it occurs to me that a good number of free-to-play games offering such micro-transactions are indeed doing quite well these days and the RMAH isnt even that, its just a venue for players to interact, where before they were using ebay, amazon or craigslist to transact. Big friggin deal. Fwiw, I think your the one thats the lost cause simply because your stuck in what YOU think the industry should be as opposed to what it actually is, or where it is actually going.
But hey, if it helps you to think your not compromising your artistic integrity and to insult others simply because they disagree with you, then go right ahead. Who am I to mess with your mojo?
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
So do Steam, X-Fire, Raptr, and several other programs. None of which require your real name. Even Origin has an ingame chat and browser.
I'm actually perfectly fine with RealID as an overall concept. It allows me to talk to friends while in game across servers and across blizzard games.
The displaying real names on official forums was the part that had the massive uproar, not real id overall.
I don't think there's any question that D3 is going to be highly successful, and I'd be willing to wager $1,000,000 (if I had that much
I went to a presentation last week by the head of a local game dev company here that does facebook/mobile games, and he talked about the funnel effect on free to play games. (Which, outside the initial purchase, is basically what D3 is). Basically what it came down to was that out of the total numbers of people who play your game, only a very small amount actually really get into spending money on it. While obviously things are a little different between fb/mobile games and D3, I think the same concept will apply though.
I also wish people would stop confusing Activision with Blizzard. They're entirely separate companies, and I wonder if people even realise that blizzard hasn't owned itself since the very early days, yet they've always been autonomous.
The data mining from Real ID doesn't bug you at all? Also them being able to sell that information to whomever they please doesn't concern you in the slightest?
Blizzard may be technically independent but they still have to answer to Robert A. Kotick. Supposedly, he is leaving the gameplay to Blizzard but any other facets of the game is up to Kotick. Real ID is has Kotick written all over it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128252
Kotick being more deeply involved is extremely bad news. I welcome all to read the above link about the history of Activision Blizzard. I certainly will never buy an Activision game or Activision associated game ever again after reading the crap they've pulled.
Is that what we've come down to as consumers? Games with no recurring frees are "free"? ... Yeah.
Exactly. Thank you minority for making this business model work. Thank you.
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
Since when was Diablo a mmo?
The frell? How is a game that you have paid for a free game? And how is Diablo 3 different in that regard to almost every game ever that has the same payment model?
Considering Blizzard is not only owned by Activison the company's name is Activision-Blizzard I really don't think people are getting confused. Overly concerned, maybe, only time will tell.
"thank" you.
Akka
Moody old mage.
If they haven't let you down with how they butchered WoW, and if you don't see how their general direction has shifted from "making game we are proud of" to "making game technically good but riddled with money-grabbing schemes", then that's precisely what I hinted with "facebook-like standards" and "being blind".
And do you realize how short-sighted it is to accept intrusive and abusive DRM just because you're in a situation that doesn't make them bothersome for now ? I'm pretty sure you can grasp the concept of "point of principle", as you tend to show it in several other discussions. Here is one (admitedly, rather low on the seriousness scale, but still a point of principle) case.
"insults" are an attempt to throw mud at someone. I know it's all the rage to be PR and like, but "low standards" and "not seeing the obvious" are not insults.
If someone is really unable to notice the shift in general policy (from "player's fun and rights first", going as far as inventing "spawn installation" to allow several people to play with one single game, to "real-life informations and permanent connexion and unable to play multiplayer without going through Battle.net even if you're in the same room"), then yes it's truly blindness.
But you're free to throw it away as "insult" and still pretend that Blizzard has kept its artistic integrity (despite butchering their own games to cave in to the casual crowd, and milking every aspect ot them), I guess it's much easier that way !
Oh great, e-peen contest on da Web, that's just going to make a convincing argument
And on top of being immature and pretentious, it's completely missing the point - the problem isn't money invested, it's design philosophy, principle and the spirit of the game.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Oh, I'm sorry, but WoW wasnt my life I guess. It was a game to me, not my reason for being. I got my moneys worth out of it and had some good times. Why shouldnt I be satisfied?
And fwiw, I dont think they butchered WoW at all. It wouldnt be nearly as successful as it is if it were as big a travesty as you let on. You gotta get a better argument that blatent overhyping issues to the point of ridiculousness and then insulting anyone who disagrees with you. It aint working.
Like I said, its a minor issue with me. It would be a bigger issue if I had a more problem ridden connection, however.
No, but making references to someones intelligence/saying they are totally blind/etc. simply because they dont agree with your pov certainly is.
If you cant make your point without going in that direction, I guess you dont have a point to make.
Oh great, e-peen contest on da Web, that's just going to make a convincing argument
Simply a counter to your silly facebook allegation bud. Your're the one that whipped it out first, dont complain if yours doesnt then measure up.
Which Blizzard has devlivered over and over again throughout the years. If D3 turns out to be a dog, then that trust in them will certainly be tarnished, but until then, they deserve what they have earned from me over the last 20 years.
aelf
Ashen One
Wow, the argument has turned into a fight between people who care way too much that a stupid big corp is making games to sell (don't buy them and don't give a damn) and fanboys who equate popularity with quality. It's almost like OT!
Thrawn
Emperor
I had some stuff typed up but then I decided not to bother, this argument is just going round in circles.
I could care less about the RMAH, even if I pick up D3, it's not going to effect how I enjoy or play the game in the slightest.
I could care less about the RMAH, even if I pick up D3, it's not going to effect how I enjoy or play the game in the slightest.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
There is a direct correlation with quality and popularity. Games that really suck are never popular. Just my humble opinion of course.
Same here.
