Posidonius
Civherder
The kind who tries to figure things out before bothering other folks, but at wit's end by now and nothing makes sense. I smash an enemy civ, and they do not respawn as a new civ, even though they should.
Here's the situation. For several months, have been practicing "trap" games to get the technique down. A trap is when you kill off a rival, then they respawn as a lone Settler, then you checkmate that Settler onto a barren square. As long as you keep a unit next to the Settler, it will never found a city. Therefore, you can eliminate all the other civs from the game and it will not end. Thus, you can develop every single arable square on the planet for your own cities. Have a handful of games where i achieved this, but it's not working this time. Spent 3 weeks trying to figure out why, and just can't understand it.
Here's the relevant passage from scripture, from the FAQ here, attributed to "Rome On 640K A Day":
In my current game there are Mongols. It is between 0 AD and 1750 AD. There is a large island where there are no cities and no units, in fact the last uninhabited land on the globe. I kill the Mongols off, but their "twin cousin" civ does not reappear. Why not? Have done a dozen tests, restarting at various points and playing until i kill the Mongols. No luck.
Extra vexing, because i have a very enticing scenario for what i want to do. My startsquare is on the largest continent, which was cleared of all rivals by 3000 BC. Vast landscape, all mine, expanded into it quickly. The enticing part is that there are two smaller continents. One has the Aztecs and the other has FOUR civs all keeping each other at bay. I thought it was weird when, by 500 AD, the game had never told me about another civ getting killed, nor anyone building a Wonder. Always play a 7-civ game, and they usually start building Wonders about 1800 BC. This is the first time i had heard nothing, nor seen any rival ships off my coast, so late into the game.
It turns out that the Crowded Continent was keeping everyone else busy and i went totally ignored, free to urbanize my own continent. Heavily. Got up to 100 cities and settled on every other piece of land, except one large island. Completed the trade network, built all the Wonders, and was into Future Techs before i started to destroy the 4 remaining civs.
And i had set aside that one large island as a comfy home for "twin cousins" to respawn onto. I called it Trap Island. It has 12 appealing grasslands on the southern half, but vicious tundra on the northern third. The Plan was to kill off the remaining civs one-by-one, then herd the respawned "twin cousin" Settlers up into the snowy wastes (one by one) and eventually have not one, but FOUR fledgling civs frozen in ice. In theory, one can manipulate the turn order, while using garrisons and ships, and end up packing four opposing Settlers into four contiguous squares of tundra. It's like one of those sliding-tile puzzles. And if it's a peninsula, then you can guard four whole civilizations with a single Phalanx unit.
Then, of course, the plan was to take a screenshot of four Settlers in different colors all jammed together and post it here, with the tag "Betcha can't guess how i did that?" But there's something wrong, i can't get any civ to respawn.
First thought, was that the Mongols might already be a respawned "twin cousin" civ. So looked back through the log i keep for every game, to see when i first met a rival civ face to face. That was in 3640 BC. So i checked that file out of the savegame library, fired it up, and met Alexander all over again. But this time, at the end of our tense but outwardly friendly chat (can never trust Alex), i suggested that if he attacks someone else, i'd defray his expenses. The list pops up, and Mongols are on it.
To verify, i dug up the 4000 BC savegame and played it through to 3640 BC, watching like a hawk to see if the game gave me a pop-up about any civs being killed off, which it always does even if it's someone i never met. No civs died, then i met Alex and he said the same thing: the Mongols are alive. So i know that they are not a resurrected twin cousin... Mongolia is an original 4000 BC civ in this game. They should be able to respawn as a twin before 1750 AD.
Second thought was that maybe there's a problem with Mongolia. Maybe, through some unknown quirk, they are unable to respawn. So i rolled my Cannons on over to the nearest pigeon, Babylon. Wiped them out, and again no respawn.
Third idea was that maybe Trap Island was not an unsettled "continent", meaning that it was too small to qualify. But no, i've seen respawns on smaller islands than that. It is before 1750 AD, and i left a very inviting island open and waiting. Why won't anyone spawn there?
So i guess the central question is, what does "Rome On 640K A Day" mean by 'unsettled'?
Trap Island is definitely unsettled. I ran a Trireme around the place in the 900s AD, landed a couple units to un-black the interior squares, seized a village for fifty bucks, and left by 1000 AD. And i never went back. In the 1500s when i'm whacking rivals, the place has been fallow and untouched for 500 years. But the game must still consider the place "settled". That's the only reason i can think of, why the AI would refuse to respawn a twin cousin there.
When you win a game, the replay shows not only colored areas around cities, but also where a civ's units have explored. Sometimes when a civ's only city on a landmass is wiped out, they still have a few colored squares of "influence" on that land. Is that the effect i'm seeing? Does the fact that i once walked on Trap Island 500 years ago make the landmass spoiled for a new civ to respawn there? Does "unsettled" mean no cities, or no units, or no occupation of any kind ever?
Have seen in replays, that ignored lands can revert from colored back to neutral gray. Does anyone know how long that takes? Or do i have to wait for Barbies to walk around on it before it reverts back to "unsettled"?
Or, am i barking up the wrong tree? Is there any other reason why an original 4000 BC rival would not spawn a cousin civ when they die? It's before 1750, and there's nice land available.
Here's the situation. For several months, have been practicing "trap" games to get the technique down. A trap is when you kill off a rival, then they respawn as a lone Settler, then you checkmate that Settler onto a barren square. As long as you keep a unit next to the Settler, it will never found a city. Therefore, you can eliminate all the other civs from the game and it will not end. Thus, you can develop every single arable square on the planet for your own cities. Have a handful of games where i achieved this, but it's not working this time. Spent 3 weeks trying to figure out why, and just can't understand it.
Here's the relevant passage from scripture, from the FAQ here, attributed to "Rome On 640K A Day":
In my current game there are Mongols. It is between 0 AD and 1750 AD. There is a large island where there are no cities and no units, in fact the last uninhabited land on the globe. I kill the Mongols off, but their "twin cousin" civ does not reappear. Why not? Have done a dozen tests, restarting at various points and playing until i kill the Mongols. No luck.
Extra vexing, because i have a very enticing scenario for what i want to do. My startsquare is on the largest continent, which was cleared of all rivals by 3000 BC. Vast landscape, all mine, expanded into it quickly. The enticing part is that there are two smaller continents. One has the Aztecs and the other has FOUR civs all keeping each other at bay. I thought it was weird when, by 500 AD, the game had never told me about another civ getting killed, nor anyone building a Wonder. Always play a 7-civ game, and they usually start building Wonders about 1800 BC. This is the first time i had heard nothing, nor seen any rival ships off my coast, so late into the game.
It turns out that the Crowded Continent was keeping everyone else busy and i went totally ignored, free to urbanize my own continent. Heavily. Got up to 100 cities and settled on every other piece of land, except one large island. Completed the trade network, built all the Wonders, and was into Future Techs before i started to destroy the 4 remaining civs.
And i had set aside that one large island as a comfy home for "twin cousins" to respawn onto. I called it Trap Island. It has 12 appealing grasslands on the southern half, but vicious tundra on the northern third. The Plan was to kill off the remaining civs one-by-one, then herd the respawned "twin cousin" Settlers up into the snowy wastes (one by one) and eventually have not one, but FOUR fledgling civs frozen in ice. In theory, one can manipulate the turn order, while using garrisons and ships, and end up packing four opposing Settlers into four contiguous squares of tundra. It's like one of those sliding-tile puzzles. And if it's a peninsula, then you can guard four whole civilizations with a single Phalanx unit.
Then, of course, the plan was to take a screenshot of four Settlers in different colors all jammed together and post it here, with the tag "Betcha can't guess how i did that?" But there's something wrong, i can't get any civ to respawn.
First thought, was that the Mongols might already be a respawned "twin cousin" civ. So looked back through the log i keep for every game, to see when i first met a rival civ face to face. That was in 3640 BC. So i checked that file out of the savegame library, fired it up, and met Alexander all over again. But this time, at the end of our tense but outwardly friendly chat (can never trust Alex), i suggested that if he attacks someone else, i'd defray his expenses. The list pops up, and Mongols are on it.
To verify, i dug up the 4000 BC savegame and played it through to 3640 BC, watching like a hawk to see if the game gave me a pop-up about any civs being killed off, which it always does even if it's someone i never met. No civs died, then i met Alex and he said the same thing: the Mongols are alive. So i know that they are not a resurrected twin cousin... Mongolia is an original 4000 BC civ in this game. They should be able to respawn as a twin before 1750 AD.
Second thought was that maybe there's a problem with Mongolia. Maybe, through some unknown quirk, they are unable to respawn. So i rolled my Cannons on over to the nearest pigeon, Babylon. Wiped them out, and again no respawn.
Third idea was that maybe Trap Island was not an unsettled "continent", meaning that it was too small to qualify. But no, i've seen respawns on smaller islands than that. It is before 1750 AD, and i left a very inviting island open and waiting. Why won't anyone spawn there?
So i guess the central question is, what does "Rome On 640K A Day" mean by 'unsettled'?
Trap Island is definitely unsettled. I ran a Trireme around the place in the 900s AD, landed a couple units to un-black the interior squares, seized a village for fifty bucks, and left by 1000 AD. And i never went back. In the 1500s when i'm whacking rivals, the place has been fallow and untouched for 500 years. But the game must still consider the place "settled". That's the only reason i can think of, why the AI would refuse to respawn a twin cousin there.
When you win a game, the replay shows not only colored areas around cities, but also where a civ's units have explored. Sometimes when a civ's only city on a landmass is wiped out, they still have a few colored squares of "influence" on that land. Is that the effect i'm seeing? Does the fact that i once walked on Trap Island 500 years ago make the landmass spoiled for a new civ to respawn there? Does "unsettled" mean no cities, or no units, or no occupation of any kind ever?
Have seen in replays, that ignored lands can revert from colored back to neutral gray. Does anyone know how long that takes? Or do i have to wait for Barbies to walk around on it before it reverts back to "unsettled"?
Or, am i barking up the wrong tree? Is there any other reason why an original 4000 BC rival would not spawn a cousin civ when they die? It's before 1750, and there's nice land available.
